Lord Zeuss wrote...
I, for one, find it personally offensive
when someone tries to say on the basis of her being the one to go after
Shepard's body, Liara cares more about him than anyone else.
I am
curious what exactly they expected Ashley to do, since Liara didn't
bother or didn't dare to tell anyone else from the SR1 what she was
doing. Was Ashley supposed to severe all ties to everything in her life
to chase down a rumor she doesn't know about?
Ashley did what the
skipper would have wanted; she stuck with it and tried to do everything
she could from her position (firing at the Reapers with her
pea-shooter, speaking figuratively--she isn't a Spectre, after all).
Liara did what Liara wanted; get Shepard back no matter the cost.
Liara
has no responsibilities to the Council, the Alliance, or anyone. If
she'd wanted to, she could've become a tea master (and preserved some of
her character integrity) instead of a lawyer information broker. Ash can't, she's an Alliance soldier, she has responsibilities.
What people don't often get is that as far as anyone else other than Liara knew, Shepard was deader than a doornail, and lost
without the possibility of retrieval. Honoring Shepard by going 180
degrees out of character and donning a superman cape to get back his
body wasn't possible for anyone else. They all had to honor Shepard in
the ways that they could.
From what I remember, people just referred to Horizon in their arguments. Those two minutes were probably all the proof most people needed.
And yeah, it's not like you can just quit being a marine, right? Shepard is a very special case...what could he/she expect Ash/Kai to do? Liara didn't have those responsibilities, the circumstances were entirely different.
One criticism of Horizon I never really understood...people seem to think Ash/Kai were expecting Shepard to contact them from the dead. They say, "I was dead! There's no email in the afterlife!" I'm pretty sure the two of them are very aware that Shepard's been dead for the better of two years. In that scene, when they ask why they weren't contacted, they probably gather they've been alive long enough to have done so. After all, they've been back long enough to buddy with Cerberus and recruit at least four people. Hell, you'd think a Spacer Shepard would want to contact his/her mother before doing much else. It just seems like some are completely unwilling to try understanding the perspective of others. If they disagree with Shepard, they are wrong and bad, period.
Xeranx wrote...
Just wanted to respond to this last bit. I'm generally not attracted to women who seem like they feel the need to down a guy at any and every opportunity. To me it relates a huge issue that I'd rather not deal with. It'd be the same as dealing with a guy who has a problem with women in authority positions. Little by little misogyny (male) or misandry (female) would bleed through.
I've met women who have the kind of, what I like to call, "issues of being in a man's world". That sounds condescending, but where I'm coming from isn't (at least I don't think it is). The only similar thing I can think of is skin color. I'm first generation African. Now if I decided to focus on my skin color being the basis for me not being able to get ahead I would never succeed. I instead look to see what I lack in any particular areas and I'm currently working on those areas to get ahead. If I'm going to give any credence to my skin color not allowing me to move forward I'll deal with it when there's a substantial outward appearance of such a state. Otherwise I don't deal with phantom racism. That is not to say it doesn't happen, but so long as I'm not seeing an obvious appearance of it I don't let it bother me. What this has to do with Ashley is that I don't get the sense that she feels she has to prove herself as a woman. She is just a human who happens to be female (if that makes sense).
So I gave Ashely a chance and experienced her side. The only other game character I felt any affinity for other than Leliana was Juhani. With the addition of Ashley, that's three total. I want to write well enough that I can foster such a connection between ficitonal characters and actual human beings. Much respect to Le'toille for the job he did on Ashley. I heard that he's not with Bioware anymore. I want him to come back to do what he can for Ashley so there's no chance to ruin her.
Sorry for the large amount of text.
Fair points, though I'm not entirely sure we're on the same page. I didn't mean to imply any sort of gender issue. What I like about her relationship can be applied to a female Shepard, as well, they both take time. Someone said earlier they save before talking to her, and that's what I did too, because you could get a lot from her in one given conversation. She has her own convinctions and opinions but does not apologize for them. What I'm trying to say is not gender-specific, just that her flaws are...very tangible. It's not just, "Oh, she's a total b*tch, but she's really nice deep down!", there's more to it than that. Plus, she can be pretty funny when she wants...with some characters, it feels like they're always "on".
I will admit, her being a tough and able woman is appealing to me--in a lot of games, women are oversexed, maybe even overpowered, like it's their handicap. Sometimes I can't decide if that's better or worse than the damsel in distress. And apparently you can't talk about Male and Female Shepard without someone saying the latter is a Mary Sue, that it doesn't make sense for a woman to be that capable. I won't go into real world politics, but it's nice to see an average kind of woman who's able to hold her own in battles, even if she is an exception.
I guess you could say I like her because she's what's known as a "Badass Normal", or at least, she's the closest example to one in the ME universe.
While I think every little factor like race and gender and even name should have
some importance to the character, I did wonder if I would have liked her more or less if she were a man. And I decided if she were, then he and Garrus would still be fighting over which one of them would be my main FemShep's love interest.
Lord Zeuss wrote...
VutaatVerd wrote...
So badass from the Motivational Forum that it needs to be posted here.
Huh,
rarely if ever does anything with Ash in it from the Motivationals
thread qualify as "badass", or good for that matter. But this, I like.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]
@funk: I'd say that's an "Oh, you did *not* just try that on the Commander!" look on Ash's face. She's got Shep's back.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png[/smilie]
Yeah, I look through that thread regularly...maybe I'm bias, but the ones involving Ashley are not even an attempt at humor, just...really mean. I remember one that referred to Ashley as "that Mexican b*tch". The irony of it was far funnier than the poster itself.
Modifié par LessThanKate, 22 octobre 2010 - 07:10 .
. I have no reason to leave the group she's my favorite character/romance I must have acciently left it the other day when I was leaving some excess groups. I was trying to do it quickly and apparently I left the Ashley group
. It says I'm still awaiting to be accepted, does anyone here know if/when/who will do that? I wanna show my Ash support
.
Retour en haut
) someone having the honesty and willingness to really examine her character before deciding for certain how they feel about her is refreshing and encouraging.
It's good for everyone
