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[Lord Zeuss]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'd actually be rather interested if she turned into an adversary in ME3; an Alliance operative charged with hunting you down. It'd make the romance interesting, certainly, especially if you found a new LI...

No. I stipulate that it might be interesting, but no.

[Xilizhra]

Well, what do you think Ashley would do in that situation?

[Lord Zeuss]

I could foresee that given their past history, not to mention her connections with Anderson and Hackett, both of whom know Shepard's importance, she would at least want to try to clear the air and find out what was really going on before sounding off on officially pursuing Shep as an enemy. Perhaps an off-the-record meeting at a neutral site, a temporary truce to allow Shep to properly explain his/herself.



I would at least hope for this. Of course, I'd hope Ash could catch a break for once and this whole thing not be written.



Ashley follows her orders, but she also knows that sometimes orders have to be disobeyed. Shepard failed to convince her to do so on Horizon because they both bungled that meeting so badly that neither ever really got a clue as to what the other was actually doing or why. If Ashley was ordered to pursue and apprehend Shepard and she became convinced that this directive was not only wrong but potentially catastrophic (such as cooling their heels and allowing Saren to reach Ilos was), she would know where to draw the line.



This is not even considering what plans Anderson and Hackett might have for her, and we know they know Shepard's importance.

[Xilizhra]

Then comes the question of what would make this seem potentially catastrophic to her. The Reaper appearance, probably, but if it happened before that?

[V-rex]

Hey, 212... if I'm correct that's the name of Ashley's unit on Eden Prime.

...SCORE, hey we have a blatant Ashley reference on this page!!!

Also, I like what Lord Zeuss said above and would also add that given that Ashley had already apologized for what she said on Horizon and expresses that she understands the situation (as best she can) it seems unlikely she'd be particularly willing to pursue Shepard anyway.
The last thing I want is for that to happen though, I need Ashley to redeem* herself to Shepard, not give the haters more flame to their fire.

Also, at the very thought of Mass Effect 2's team coming back but not Ashley, I burst a vein in my head with anger. No sir, it is not fair.
Not fair that they would go to extreme measures to write back into the story characters like Jacob and Thane and Grunt and Miranda and Jack and Legion and Mordin (I love 'em all but that's beside the point... as a side note I pre-ordered a Grunt figure ages ago, anyone know what's happened with those?) but those exact same measures they wouldn't give to the lady who was the freakin' cover girl for the original game and all its promotional posters and trailers.

That would invoke the wrath of the V-rex.... and a wall of text would go to Bioware offices for which there would be no escape and no mercy!!!


Anyway, off that topic and into happier thoughts:

Yay, 212!!!

For Ashley:



She is gorgeous.

*personally I don't think she's really done anything wrong but if some kind of redemptive act is needed to make the haters quiet, I'll accept it.

Modifié par V-rex, 30 décembre 2010 - 04:14 .

[Lord Zeuss]

Xilizhra wrote...

Then comes the question of what would make this seem potentially catastrophic to her. The Reaper appearance, probably, but if it happened before that?

Why is it so important? I, for one, would prefer to hope Ashley will not get the short end of yet another stick. Bioware's talk of the love interests being all treated equally has been garbage up to this point, I'm still holding out for some truth in those statements.

[Xilizhra]

I'm just curious; I think it'd be an interesting scenario. I doubt you'd have to kill her, though.

[FireEye]

I think the problem with Ashley being an enemy is that it furthers the, "anyone who disagrees with Shepard is short-sighted, stupid, or flat out evil" thing. Personally, I'm sick of Shepard being always in the right, especially when working for terrorists for no apparent reason.



And with Ashley and Kaidan it hurts even more, since they are my favorite characters of the franchise so far, and it feels very much that they've been shoved to the side in favor of "cooler, edgier" people and purposefully cast in a bad light so that people feel vindicated in disliking them.



So, no... Ashley as the enemy could be done well, but it'd further what I currently see as character derailment.

[Chignon]

Great posts, Fire and LZ, but this stoo out for me:

FireEye wrote...

And with Ashley and Kaidan it hurts even more, since they are my favorite characters of the franchise so far, and it feels very much that they've been shoved to the side in favor of "cooler, edgier" people and purposefully cast in a bad light so that people feel vindicated in disliking them.

So, no... Ashley as the enemy could be done well, but it'd further what I currently see as character derailment.

It is something I'd have expected to see in bad fanfiction but not from a company like BioWare.

[V-rex]

Chignon wrote...

Snip

Let me tell you about bad fan fiction.

I read a piece on Deviant Art that was basically a re-telling of the Horizon encounter, it was very similar except that now, the author had added in a tidbit about Ashley having denied the existence of the Reapers at Shepard's funeral. Basically it was trying to make Ashley out to be this horrible shallow traitor and a lowly monster who dared to question the might of Shepard and was in fact, judas!!!
Then I read the comments and everyone was saying:

"Hell yeah, she's totally the traitor in this instance, can't wait to shoot her!! LOLZ!!"

Seriously, it's hard enough with how the characters are being written and now fans are literally inventing new reasons to hate the characters that they entirely made up on their own and are now presented as fact.
It's like their anger and idiocy has evolved into.... I dunno.... Mecha-idiocy.

*sigh*

The last thing we need is Bioware encouraging this kind of behavior by actually putting Ashley/Kaiden into the 'opponent' seat, regardless of the context. Because it won't matter to them what the context is, if need be, they'll make up their own context for it.
As mentioned above.

Modifié par V-rex, 30 décembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Xilizhra]

I think the problem with Ashley being an enemy is that it furthers the, "anyone who disagrees with Shepard is short-sighted, stupid, or flat out evil" thing. Personally, I'm sick of Shepard being always in the right, especially when working for terrorists for no apparent reason.

But in this case, wouldn't it just be them acting under orders and not a personal failing? Arguably, that'd be better than short-sighted/stupid/evil.

"Hell yeah, she's totally the traitor in this instance, can't wait to shoot her!! LOLZ!!"

I admit that this does beg the question as to why they didn't kill her on Virmire... unless they want to have her around to get killed in ME3. Hmmm.

[V-rex]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think the problem with Ashley being an enemy is that it furthers the, "anyone who disagrees with Shepard is short-sighted, stupid, or flat out evil" thing. Personally, I'm sick of Shepard being always in the right, especially when working for terrorists for no apparent reason.

But in this case, wouldn't it just be them acting under orders and not a personal failing? Arguably, that'd be better than short-sighted/stupid/evil.

Like I said before:

It wouldn't matter

You could give the 'following orders' or 'had no choice' or 'becomes good in the end' arguments until the cows come home. It won't make any difference, give Ashley/Kaiden even one slice of negative position within the plot and its all the haters need to go nuts and make wild and angry accusations about her.

Like I said above, they will now literally invent entire reasons to dislike her from scratch and then force themselves to believe it. So even if you make Ashley spend all her time giving money to the local Elcor orphanage and work around the clock to cure the Drell disease between hunting down Shepard, all anyone will see is 'hunting down Shepard' and they will ignore the good and focus entirely on the negative, and then explode it to make it far worse then it really is.

With that in mind, at least giving Ashley a positive role within the story would make that harder for the haters and it would mean that it would be finally a bit of good stuff coming to the Ash fans who have been being dealt the crummy hand for far too long now. Work to make her better in the eyes of the franchise, not worse.

Edit: Also, no one has praised me for my 212 observation.... what do I need to do to impress you people?

Anyway, cheers everyone. I'm off to bed now, night night and happy new year to all.

Modifié par V-rex, 30 décembre 2010 - 04:13 .

[Xilizhra]

It'd help Ashley's image a lot if she recanted some of the stuff about aliens, even if what she originally said was misunderstood.

[DWH1982]

I hate to say this, but... If Ash were turned into an enemy in ME3, I think it would be enough to make me give up on the Ashley romance. To me, it would mean that Bioware just isn't committed to developing the Virmire Survivor romance and the VS characters to the degree that they deserve. Ash is my favorite character out of both of the games right now, but, if it gets to that point, why bother any more? At that point, it might be better to do a non-romance run through of ME1, and then romance one of the ME2 characters. Even if I am much less enthusiastic about them.

Not sure what I'd do if she simply wasn't on the squad, and reduced to a cameo or two. I'd still be bitterly disappointed at not getting to see her character and the romance with her developed any further. But at least I wouldn't have to fight her. Having to fight her, or having her treated as an enemy... that would just be bitter medicine.

Modifié par DWH1982, 30 décembre 2010 - 04:33 .

[DWH1982]

Xilizhra wrote...

It'd help Ashley's image a lot if she recanted some of the stuff about aliens, even if what she originally said was misunderstood.

It is possible to paragon her in ME1, if you want to actually be bothered with putting the time and effort into her character.

[Xilizhra]

Only, as far as I can tell, if you romance her.

[Chignon]

Xilizhra wrote...

It'd help Ashley's image a lot if she recanted some of the stuff about aliens, even if what she originally said was misunderstood.

Why should she? Because some players do not agree with her or bother to understand what Ash is actually saying?

If anything it would make her look spineless - something she most certainly is not. Ash has strong views and she expresses them. Caving in on her opinion would not help her character.

[Xilizhra]

It's only an observation. I couldn't care less about Ashley's image; it would, however, probably stem the flow of haters.

[Chignon]

It wouldn't - they'd latch onto something else.

[Xilizhra]

But new ones won't be attracted. The bandwagon to jump on would be less solid.

[Chignon]

We'll have to agree to disagree about it then.

[DWH1982]

Chignon wrote...

We'll have to agree to disagree about it then.

I like that picture of Ash.  I always take her whenever I stop at the Citadel, so she's always around when I encounter the irate admiral.

I think my favorite moment with Ash on the Citadel has to be when she tells off that jerk from Terra Firma, though.  If I hadn't been interested in her as a LI before that, I almost certainly would have been interested in her after.

[Chignon]

^



That always bothered me, too, and it is reinforced by the lack of acknowledgement in Kasumi's and Liara's DLC.



At times it seems like selling Ash and Kaidan short and essentially shoving the player into a certain direction - moving on, in this case - is the only way BioWare could think of to make the ME2 LIs more "compelling".

[Xilizhra]

What's the other option besides "history?"