14023 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Zeuss]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I would not like where if you got a new LI in ME2 that Ashley won't take you back at all. That'd just ruins the whole "you make the decision" mystique about the game because the decision is made for you if she won't take you back.

You do make the decision. And decisions have consequences, even Shepard's.

[DWH1982]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

You do make the decision. And decisions have consequences, even Shepard's.

QFT.

Really, I'm not sure how ruling out a relationship with Ash in ME3 if you move on to someone else in ME2 would be any different than how ME2 treats the LIs.

In ME2, if you break up with someone, you can't get them back again.

[ADLegend21]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I would not like where if you got a new LI in ME2 that Ashley won't take you back at all. That'd just ruins the whole "you make the decision" mystique about the game because the decision is made for you if she won't take you back.

You do make the decision. And decisions have consequences, even Shepard's.

that's true but if one LI gets to take you back, even if you got a new LI, then why would one LI's Romance end because of the same issue? That would ruin the Ashley's ahlf of the VS DLC (unless Kaidan does the same which ruins the ENTIRE DLC in the romance department) when Liara actually knows you "cheated" while the Ash/Kai are in the dark about what's going on.
Example for Ash:
"Oh Now you care about me I heard you slept with that Cerberus Chick Miranda, we're through"

Do. Not. Want.

What I would want is for one roamce to end when the choice is brought up because after Liara's DLC if you had a ME2 LI you could still invite them up to the Cabin even after you resumed the romance with her and that's just wrong.

[Lord Zeuss]

So, are you taking issue with the idea that Ashley somehow suddenly knows you've cheated? If that's the case, I agree, it would be an awkward retcon.



Asari apparently don't have a concept for 'infidelity', humans do. More to the point, Ashley (and Kaidan) have *already* killed romances with two-timing Shepards. In the first game. I also direct you to what DWH said above me. If Ashley is made aware of the fact that Shepard has been in someone else's pants without giving either of them the benefit of actually figuring out where they stand with each other, then I firmly believe she should not take him back.



No, I don't know how she might find out. Maybe Shepard tells her. "Ashley, I've been seeing someone else."

[DWH1982]

ADLegend21 wrote...

What I would want is for one roamce to end when the choice is brought up because after Liara's DLC if you had a ME2 LI you could still invite them up to the Cabin even after you resumed the romance with her and that's just wrong.

If it's handeled well, I could see a decision point like that working in the VS DLC.  Basically, Shepard would sit down for a discussion with Ash, and decide what direction their relationship should take.  Maybe Shepard has started a relationship with Jack or Miranda, but he decides during this conversation that he would like to try to work things out with Ash.  The relationship with Jack or Miranda would be severed, and Ash's picture would once again be face up on the desk.

This would address the fact that, after Horizon, Ash and Shepard's relationship is unclear.  I do think that the most decent thing for Shepard to do would be to wait to work things out, but as I think we've covered, the relationship is so uncertain that what happens after Horizon can't be considered "cheating," at least not in the strictest sense.

I would be able to support this on one condition: That Shepard and Ash only be able to sleep together in the DLC if Shepard did not move on to a ME2 LI.  Otherwise, Shepard should acknowledge that he initially moved on, but state that he'd like to try to work things out with Ash.  Actual "romance" between the two would have to wait until ME3, after Ash and Shepard have had time to further rebuild their relationship.  Ash getting with Shepard so soon after he moved on to someone else... just doesn't seem in character for her.

[Badpie]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Lord Zeuss wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I would not like where if you got a new LI in ME2 that Ashley won't take you back at all. That'd just ruins the whole "you make the decision" mystique about the game because the decision is made for you if she won't take you back.

You do make the decision. And decisions have consequences, even Shepard's.

that's true but if one LI gets to take you back, even if you got a new LI, then why would one LI's Romance end because of the same issue? That would ruin the Ashley's ahlf of the VS DLC (unless Kaidan does the same which ruins the ENTIRE DLC in the romance department) when Liara actually knows you "cheated" while the Ash/Kai are in the dark about what's going on.
Example for Ash:
"Oh Now you care about me I heard you slept with that Cerberus Chick Miranda, we're through"

Do. Not. Want.

What I would want is for one roamce to end when the choice is brought up because after Liara's DLC if you had a ME2 LI you could still invite them up to the Cabin even after you resumed the romance with her and that's just wrong.

Each character is different (or should be).  Ash is a women who wouldn't put up with being second.  We saw that in the first game.  It would be OOC of her to take Shepard back once he's moved on with someone else.  I mean, just because you're Shepard doesn't mean everyone falls at your feet to worship you, especially if you're kind of a d*ck.  Although I can see what we're saying here about him being honest and saying "look, I didn't really know where we stood so I was kind of seeing someone but I was wrong and I need you."  Then I think it would be acceptable to be open to the possibility of getting back into the relationship.   But not just jumping back in like "oh okay, well that's that then."  Because it's not.  Because now, as an adult Shepard has to deal with having a talk with whoever it is he was seeing.

The best solution I would have if you want to continue a relationship with Ash is don't get involved with anyone else.  I mean this seems like common sense in real life situations, why not the game?

Modifié par Badpie, 11 janvier 2011 - 04:17 .

[ADLegend21]

Badpie wrote...

Each character is different (or should be).  Ash is a woman who wouldn't put up with being second.  We saw that in the first game.  It would be OOC of her to take Shepard back once he's moved on with someone else.  I mean, just because you're Shepard doesn't mean everyone falls at your feet to worship you, especially if you're kind of a d*ck.  Although I can see what we're saying here about him being honest and saying "look, I didn't really know where we stood so I was kind of seeing someone but I was wrong and I need you."  Then I think it would be acceptable to be open to the possibility of getting back into the relationship.   But not just jumping back in like "oh okay, well that's that then."  Because it's not.  Because now, as an adult Shepard has to deal with having a talk with whoever it is he was seeing.

The best solution I would have if you want to continue a relationship with Ash is don't get involved with anyone else.  I mean this seems like common sense in real life situations, why not the game?

But that's the Thing, it is a game and a game where the Circumstances ahve Ash in the dark about Shepard and her actions since Horizon. You'd probably have to bring your new LI with you for Ash to even get a clue since the most Ashley knows is that Shep's with Cerberus and she had to confirm that in person. Liara knew practically everything and still took Shepard back. Now it's true that Ashley and Shep do have a sorta big fight on Horizon,and Ash is an in your face kinda woman, but you don't go from saying "a God back from the dead" to "you had a fling (or relationship depending on how you play) with someone after I cursed you out on Horizon because I hate your new employers so I'm done with you". Not saying Ashley should get on her knees and beg to be taken back (that would also ruin the DLC and Probably Mass effect for me) but she shouldn't pull a Jack and go "F**k off!"

[Badpie]

I don't think it would be as much of a "f*ck off" as "well so I guess I know where we stand now. Fine. Let's just do work."

[trobbins777]

Brodyaha wrote...

Here's were the dialogue tree comes in handy:

Paragon dialogue choice: "I understand if you want to move on."
Neutral choice: "How is our relationship?"
Renegade choice: "I've moved on."

Ultra paragon choice: "I've never stopped loving you, Ash/Kaidan." (Only available to those who stayed faithful.)

It gives Shepard the choice to tell Ashley how he feels in DLC and start reparations, but for those who want to end the relationship, then they can tell her.

It would just be a way to work out the relationship.

I had an idea a while back to have Ash/Kaiden try to apologize for Horizon stumbling with words trying to explain what they went through for the past two years. Then a paragon interupt and Shepard kisses them mid-sentance. 

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

trobbins777 wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

Here's were the dialogue tree comes in handy:

Paragon dialogue choice: "I understand if you want to move on."
Neutral choice: "How is our relationship?"
Renegade choice: "I've moved on."

Ultra paragon choice: "I've never stopped loving you, Ash/Kaidan." (Only available to those who stayed faithful.)

It gives Shepard the choice to tell Ashley how he feels in DLC and start reparations, but for those who want to end the relationship, then they can tell her.

It would just be a way to work out the relationship.

I had an idea a while back to have Ash/Kaiden try to apologize for Horizon stumbling with words trying to explain what they went through for the past two years. Then a paragon interupt and Shepard kisses them mid-sentance. 

that would awsome but only if Shepard stayed tru to Ashley

[Raanz]

As confident as I am that there will be VS DLC, I'm not sold that the interaction with A/K will be anything epic. A conversation wheel much like Brodyaha posted is what I imagine, with follow up dialogue after that. If you remained faithful, then maybe some pay-off, anything else will probably net you a nice heart warming hug, "let's remain good friends" type of thing.

[DWH1982]

ADLegend21 wrote...

But that's the Thing, it is a game and a game where the Circumstances ahve Ash in the dark about Shepard and her actions since Horizon. You'd probably have to bring your new LI with you for Ash to even get a clue since the most Ashley knows is that Shep's with Cerberus and she had to confirm that in person.

If the VS DLC is anything like the Shadow Broker DLC, it will involve Ash traveling with Shepard and the Normandy to a different location than where the DLC started.

We don't know how long it takes for the Normandy to travel between locations, but I always imagined that it generally takes at least a few hours for short trips, and maybe even a day or two (or three) for longer trips.  I know travel between Mass Relays is instant, but you still have to travel to the relay, and in some cases you may have to travel from one system to another via FTL drive.

Spending even a few hours on board the Normandy would give Ash a chance to see how Shepard interacts with his new squad.  I think it's normally pretty easy to tell when two people are in a relationship with each other if you're around them for any length of time.  Seeing how Shepard and Miranda/Jack/Tali behave around each other would likely give Ash subtle hints if Shepard is in a relationship with one of them.  Ash could then ask about it later, after the mission is completed - bringing up Brodyaha's dialogue wheel.
 
It would be fairly easy to write this justification in the dialogue : "So, on the way to location X I noticed that you and Miranda seem to be very comfortable around each other...?"

Modifié par DWH1982, 11 janvier 2011 - 06:38 .

[ADLegend21]

DWH1982 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

But that's the Thing, it is a game and a game where the Circumstances ahve Ash in the dark about Shepard and her actions since Horizon. You'd probably have to bring your new LI with you for Ash to even get a clue since the most Ashley knows is that Shep's with Cerberus and she had to confirm that in person.

If the VS DLC is anything like the Shadow Broker DLC, it will involve Ash traveling with Shepard and the Normandy to a different location than where the DLC started.

We don't know how long it takes for the Normandy to travel between locations, but I always imagined that it generally takes at least a few hours for short trips, and maybe even a day or two (or three) for longer trips.  I know travel between Mass Relays is instant, but you still have to travel to the relay, and in some cases you may have to travel from one system to another via FTL drive.

Spending even a few hours on board the Normandy would give Ash a chance to see how Shepard interacts with his new squad.  I think it's normally pretty easy to tell when two people are in a relationship with each other if you're around them for any length of time.  Seeing how Shepard and Miranda/Jack/Tali behave around each other would likely give Ash subtle hints if Shepard is in a relationship with one of them.  Ash could then ask about it later, after the mission is completed - bringing up Brodyaha's dialogue wheel.
 
It would be fairly easy to write this justification in the dialogue : "So, on the way to location X I noticed that you and Miranda seem to be very comfortable around each other...?"

That's a bit much to hope for that the VS would be able to get back on the Normandy during a mission, since it's most likely gonna be an Alliance DLC and I doubt the Alliance would want one of their operatives on a "Cerberus" Ship; That, and two DLC's being structured the same way, since none of the DLC so far have been structured the same way. Also Liara got a "tour" of a Normandy when you reminisce so I'm guessing during the actual Mission she must have stayed in the Shuttle down in the cargo hold. The writers will have to find a way to make it show that Shepard romances someone else on the New Normandy since the VS isn't as hip to shepard's actions as Liara was, if they did in fact romance someone else.

[DWH1982]

ADLegend21 wrote...

That's a bit much to hope for that the VS would be able to get back on the Normandy during a mission, since it's most likely gonna be an Alliance DLC and I doubt the Alliance would want one of their operatives on a "Cerberus" Ship; That, and two DLC's being structured the same way, since none of the DLC so far have been structured the same way. Also Liara got a "tour" of a Normandy when you reminisce so I'm guessing during the actual Mission she must have stayed in the Shuttle down in the cargo hold. The writers will have to find a way to make it show that Shepard romances someone else on the New Normandy since the VS isn't as hip to shepard's actions as Liara was, if they did in fact romance someone else.

Clever writing can find a way around this. For example, if Ash is stranded at the first location in the game - maybe her shuttle off was destroyed during the battle - and she needs to report back quickly or get to her next mission location quickly, she might make an "on the ground decision" that traveling on a "Cerberus" ship is okay, given the circumstances.

Heck, it could even be set up so that we meet up with Ash at the Citadel, during a meeting with Anderson - and he personally gives her the okay to travel on the Normandy, to help conduct some sort of Alliance/Council investigation.

I do think it was a bit odd that Liara waited to take a tour of the Normandy in the Shadow Broker DLC.  My thought was, "Wait... what the heck did she do when she do when she was traveling on the Normandy?" 

[Batlass8]

Is it weird that I for some reason thought that Liara must have just "driven herself?" She's an information broker...she has resources...

But that wouldn't be an option for Ash, I suppose.

[Badpie]

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

trobbins777 wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

Here's were the dialogue tree comes in handy:

Paragon dialogue choice: "I understand if you want to move on."
Neutral choice: "How is our relationship?"
Renegade choice: "I've moved on."

Ultra paragon choice: "I've never stopped loving you, Ash/Kaidan." (Only available to those who stayed faithful.)

It gives Shepard the choice to tell Ashley how he feels in DLC and start reparations, but for those who want to end the relationship, then they can tell her.

It would just be a way to work out the relationship.

I had an idea a while back to have Ash/Kaiden try to apologize for Horizon stumbling with words trying to explain what they went through for the past two years. Then a paragon interupt and Shepard kisses them mid-sentance. 

that would awsome but only if Shepard stayed tru to Ashley

And only if Shepard apologizes for Horizon too.  They were mutually stupid.

[Batlass8]

Badpie wrote...

And only if Shepard apologizes for Horizon too.  They were mutually stupid.

This.  The more I think about Horizon, the more I blame Shepard (and by extension, whoever wrote that terrible dialogue).

[ADLegend21]

Batlass8 wrote...

Badpie wrote...

And only if Shepard apologizes for Horizon too.  They were mutually stupid.

This.  The more I think about Horizon, the more I blame Shepard (and by extension, whoever wrote that terrible dialogue).

Why? If you take specific dialouge choices Shepard explains themselves enough to where the base reason for working with Cerberus is revealed: The alliance and council aren't doing anyhting to help the colonist, and cerberus is, they also spent a huge amount of resources to bring Shepard back to life and back into fighting Shape, and that two alien crew memebers (one of which has more reason to hate cerberus than Ashley because they attacked her people) have joined the cause because the Reapers are involved. Garrus was right in saying Ashley's emotions were blinding her to the bigger picture, but Shepard could have made a better case for herself so Ashley could get a better view than the cliff notes version. I'd say with the dialouge choices I mention the Blame is 60:40 Ash because that "what if Cerberus is working with the collectors" line was pure BS! C'mon get your head out of your Ass Ashley.

[Lord Zeuss]

I don't think questioning Cerberus's motives is BS in any sense of the term. *Someone* had to if Shepard wasn't going to.

[ADLegend21]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

I don't think questioning Cerberus's motives is BS in any sense of the term. *Someone* had to if Shepard wasn't going to.

I'm all up for questioning their motives, but if they were after the colonists, why would they send Shepard to stop them from being taken? especially after Ashle was there for the collectors attack, not Cererus commando's attacking, collectors. the "you should join me" line could hav ebeen better before Ash left something like:
"Ash you've seen what the collectors are capable of, let's work together to stop them".

I did like the "fat Chance" option though, that was pure truth.

[Lord Zeuss]

Illusive Man is nothing if not manipulative.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Badpie wrote...

Mr_Commander_Shepard wrote...

trobbins777 wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

Here's were the dialogue tree comes in handy:

Paragon dialogue choice: "I understand if you want to move on."
Neutral choice: "How is our relationship?"
Renegade choice: "I've moved on."

Ultra paragon choice: "I've never stopped loving you, Ash/Kaidan." (Only available to those who stayed faithful.)

It gives Shepard the choice to tell Ashley how he feels in DLC and start reparations, but for those who want to end the relationship, then they can tell her.

It would just be a way to work out the relationship.

I had an idea a while back to have Ash/Kaiden try to apologize for Horizon stumbling with words trying to explain what they went through for the past two years. Then a paragon interupt and Shepard kisses them mid-sentance. 

that would awsome but only if Shepard stayed tru to Ashley

And only if Shepard apologizes for Horizon too.  They were mutually stupid.

Definitely, that part was awful.. I really hope that the people who stayed faithful get credit for it. And as to those who didn't get what they deserve, which i believe should be nothing

[Xilizhra]

Well, I assume that most of the ones who didn't stay faithful won't need anything extra from her...

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, I assume that most of the ones who didn't stay faithful won't need anything extra from her...

good point