14023 réponses à ce sujet

[DWH1982]

I personally put most of the blame on Shepard for Horizon. He just stood there and said stuff that wasn't terribly convincing... While Ash expressed everything I had been thinking since the game railroaded me into working for Cerberus.

Working for Cerberus was totally out of character for my Shepard, given all the time in ME1 he spent lecturing Garrus about how the "rules are usually there for a reason." Then, of course, there's the fact that Cerberus was responsible for what happend to my Shepard's unit on Akuze - a fact that Ash is familiar with.

At least in my playthrough, Ash had every reason in the world to not only question Shepard's state of mind, but also to lose a little respect for him. I lost a lot of respect for him myself, at least up until the end where he told TIM what he could do with himself. And not even that was convincing as it should have been.

Modifié par DWH1982, 11 janvier 2011 - 10:30 .

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

DWH1982 wrote...

I personally put most of the blame on Shepard for Horizon. He just stood there and said stuff that wasn't terribly convincing... While Ash expressed everything I had been thinking since the game railroaded me into working for Cerberus.

Working for Cerberus was totally out of character for my Shepard, given all the time in ME1 he spent lecturing Garrus about how the "rules are usually there for a reason." Then, of course, there's the fact that Cerberus was responsible for what happend to my Shepard's unit on Akuze - a fact that Ash is familiar with.

At least in my playthrough, Ash had every reason in the world to not only question Shepard's state of mind, but also to lose a little respect for him. I lost a lot of respect for him myself, at least up until the end where he told TIM what he could do with himself. And not even that was convincing as it should have been.

I completely agree with you, that whole scene sucked and what shepard had to say was worse part.

[ADLegend21]

so I'm guessing the general consensus here is that Ashley's not to blame for the scene on Horizon?

[Lord Zeuss]

ADLegend21 wrote...

so I'm guessing the general consensus here is that Ashley's not to blame for the scene on Horizon?

I think the "general" consensus is that Shepard was at least as much to blame as was Ashley. Personally, I blame the writers. But it is as Badpie said; they were mutually stupid.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Well i think they both were to blame for what happened on Horizon, Shepard kinda caused it with his first line and Ashley just left before they could really talk about anything.

[DWH1982]

I'd say maybe she has some of the blame, but that Shepard has most of it.

When I think about it, a lot of my problems with Horizon seem to be connected with anger I have over the fact that the game had me working with Cerberus in the first place. I hate Cerberus, and the Cerberus missions in ME1 were set up to make me hate them. Then ME2 comes along and it seems like Bioware is trying to either white wash everything that Cerberus was responsible for, or somehow retcon them into "not being so bad."

I still don't understand why they had to write ME2 that way. They could have just as easily had Shepard working for the Alliance Intelligence Agency.

Modifié par DWH1982, 11 janvier 2011 - 11:06 .

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

Here now your working for cerberus, your gonna fly a cerberus ship, have cerberus crew, where cerberus cloths, follow cerberus directions no matter what, wish i coulda told ash wat they were doin to me so she could go kill them

[Batlass8]

They're neither one of them innocent. I agree, that "what if Cerberus is working with the Collectors," line is as stupid as they come. I just don't feel like Shepard is the victim.

[ADLegend21]

My Thing with Ash is that she should have just trusted Shepard. Councilor Anderson does, trusts Shepard not cerberus; Hackett trusts Shepard a seen in the Shadow broker Dossier. Garrus, Liara, and Tali trust Shepard, helI I bet Wrex would trust Shepard if he was told everything about the situation. It's even worse if you romanced her, to see how little faith she has in Shepard's decision making.

[Lord Zeuss]

ADLegend21 wrote...

My Thing with Ash is that she should have just trusted Shepard. Councilor Anderson does, trusts Shepard not cerberus; Hackett trusts Shepard a seen in the Shadow broker Dossier. Garrus, Liara, and Tali trust Shepard, helI I bet Wrex would trust Shepard if he was told everything about the situation. It's even worse if you romanced her, to see how little faith she has in Shepard's decision making.

In other words, she should have done like a good little Shepard fangirl and gone along with whatever he had going, regardless of what she thought about things?

Edit: And without a convincing argument against her misgivings?

Modifié par Lord Zeuss, 12 janvier 2011 - 12:00 .

[Lord Zeuss]

"I want to believe you, Shepard, but I don't trust Cerberus. And it worries me that you do."



In light of what Miranda says about wanting to implant Shepard with a control chip, I think Ashley is right on the money. Besides, Anderson deliberately withholds information from you because you're working with Cerberus.

[Shadow_82]

LiamN7 wrote...

Ash was fine. Shep was a freaking block of wood.

A block of wood has more personality than ME2 Shep:pinched:

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

I think it was the guy who wrote the lines fault.. I mean to Shepard its been like 2 weeks and all he has to say to her is "how you been?". Thats not what i wanted to say at all.. Ashley had two years to deal with him being gone and she still was more emotional about it, and she sends him a message about being sorry for what she said.. I think all of us who loved Ashley got ignored in ME2.

[ADLegend21]

Garrus and Tali don't follow shep because they say so, Garrus asks Shepard if they know what they're ding and Shepad can say cerberus is in the right, that no one else is doing anyhting about, or that they don't trust Cerberus and they're being catious and Garrus trusts you. Tali has every right to do what Ashley does since Cerberus actually did something to her people, Ash doesn't evn have to be on the squad during the cerberus mission and you don't have to even DO the cerberus mission, yet she doesn't trust you, but Tali can suck it up and help you out because the reapers aren't to be taken lightly. If Aliens are working with Cerberus, like Mordin says, you know it's something drastic. Ashley knows the Reapers are real, yet she can't get with the program. I love ashley for her intelligence, but it just wasn't there on Horizon and her decision was purely an emotional one and emotional decisions aren't good ones.

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

LiamN7 wrote...

I disagree ADL. As I said I cant blame Ash if I am yelling worse things at Shep. The whole no one else will help thing was handled very badly by bioware imo. A lot of the writing was lacking .Its like I am supposed to fill in the blanks. Bioware is capable of better. I actually lose respect for the ME1 crew that came along. I really do. I actually gain respect for Ash. Shep well he is a block of wood. Ash has every right to not trust shep at this point. Look at it from her point of view. Or don't it doesn't matter really. We all have our own viewpoints.
Ash is worth it.

agreed, and Ash is worth it!

[Shadow_82]

LiamN7 wrote...

I disagree ADL. As I said I cant blame Ash if I am yelling worse things at Shep. The whole no one else will help thing was handled very badly by bioware imo. A lot of the writing was lacking .Its like I am supposed to fill in the blanks. Bioware is capable of better. I actually lose respect for the ME1 crew that came along. I really do. I actually gain respect for Ash. Shep well he is a block of wood. Ash has every right to not trust shep at this point. Look at it from her point of view. Or don't it doesn't matter really. We all have our own viewpoints.
Ash is worth it.

Yelling at Shep Liam? that's it?.I was ready to punch the hell out of my screen, or at least throw my controller through it.<_<
I always cringe when I get to Horizon.
Us Ash supporters deserve so much more.Unfortunately as of now, we're not getting it.

[DWH1982]

ADLegend21 wrote...

My Thing with Ash is that she should have just trusted Shepard. Councilor Anderson does, trusts Shepard not cerberus; Hackett trusts Shepard a seen in the Shadow broker Dossier. Garrus, Liara, and Tali trust Shepard, helI I bet Wrex would trust Shepard if he was told everything about the situation. It's even worse if you romanced her, to see how little faith she has in Shepard's decision making.

Ash is tied down by military service.  She can't just abandon her mission without permission from the higher ups - she'd be court marshaled.  Afterwards, she'd no longer be in a position to do anyone good.

Furthermore, we don't even know what Anderson has her doing.  We know that Anderson is on our side with the Reapers.  It's likely that Anderson has Ash advancing the cause against the Reapers on another front.  Violating orders and getting drummed out of the service would take Ash away from that.

We also don't know what intel Ash has been getting on Shepard.  All we know is that TIM has been sending out rumors, possibly for months or even years before Shepard was revived.  There could have been rumors about Shepard being involved in any number of horrible Cerberus sponsored acts, and seeing Shepard alive and working with Cerberus could have made Ash wonder how much of it was true.

As for the others:

Councilor Anderson - Still withholds information from Shepard, perhaps because Shepard is working with Cerberus, perhaps for other reasons.  There's also a chance that Anderson knew about what was going on with Shepard, maybe even that he has Cerberus ties himself.  Remember, there's video footage of him meeting with a Cerberus agent in the Shadow Broker DLC.

Hackett - Likely was talking to Anderson and taking his cues from him.  I also suspect that maybe Hackett has Cerberus ties, but we really don't know for sure.

Garrus - I always get the feeling that Garrus is a little too willing to follow Shepard, that he looks at Shepard like a little kid looks at their older sibling.  Also, he had every merc group on Omega about to kill him, and just had half his face ripped off by an attack helicopter. It's not like he could have opted not to go along with Shepard, especially as there was still a bounty out on his head.

Liara - Knew what was going on because she was the one who delivered Shepard's body to Cerberus, so of course she trusts Shepard.  Ash isn't in this position because Liara, for whatever reason, opted not to provide her with info on what was going on with Shepard.

Tali - Is kind of like a female version of Garrus in my mind, the only difference being that instead of being too willing to follow Shepard solely because she looks up to him, she's a little too willing to follow him because she has a major crush.  Also, her family is powerful and influential within the fleet - meaning that it would be easy for her to arrange a leave of absence from her service.  The same can't be said of Ash.  Finally, I should note that Tali doesn't even join Shepard the first time she meets him - because, like Ash, she has another mission to carry out.  Tali only joins later because TIM gives us her location.  TIM never gives us the location of Ash so we can try again to recruit her.  Likely this is because TIM realizes that if she were willing to join, Ash would push too hard for Shepard to think for himself.

Modifié par DWH1982, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:13 .

[ADLegend21]

LiamN7 wrote...

I disagree ADL. As I said I cant blame Ash if I am yelling worse things at Shep. The whole no one else will help thing was handled very badly by bioware imo. A lot of the writing was lacking .Its like I am supposed to fill in the blanks. Bioware is capable of better. I actually lose respect for the ME1 crew that came along. I really do. I actually gain respect for Ash. Shep well he is a block of wood. Ash has every right to not trust shep at this point. Look at it from her point of view. Or don't it doesn't matter really. We all have our own viewpoints.
Ash is worth it.

I can see it form her point of view. Not seeing her for two years then she shows up on Horizon working for cerberus and she's the only one who beleives anything about the Reapers since the council backslid on their word when Shepard died. it amkes sense to have subjections, but the fact Aliens are working with cerberus should be a good indicator that somethings wrong. it's a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" cerberus in as enemy of the collectors so for now they're Shepard's friend, hell they brought her back to life to stop the collectors if that's no desperation, nothing is. the least Ashley could ahve done was give Shepard a fair chance to explain herself, but it was "blah blah blah I hate cerberus blah blah" as well as the cringeworthy "What if Cerberus is working with the collectors."

[ADLegend21]

DWH1982 wrote...

Ash is tied down by military service.  She can't just abandon her mission without permission from the higher ups - she'd be court marshaled.  Afterwards, she'd no longer be in a position to do anyone good.

Furthermore, we don't even know what Anderson has her doing.  We know that Anderson is on our side with the Reapers.  It's likely that Anderson has Ash advancing the cause against the Reapers on another front.  Violating orders and getting drummed out of the service would take Ash away from that.

We also don't know what intel Ash has been getting on Shepard.  All we know is that TIM has been sending out rumors, possibly for months or even years before Shepard was revived.  There could have been rumors about Shepard being involved in any number of horrible Cerberus sponsored acts, and seeing Shepard alive and working with Cerberus could have made Ash wonder how much of it was true.

As for the others:

Councilor Anderson - Still withholds information from Shepard, perhaps because Shepard is working with Cerberus, perhaps for other reasons.  There's also a chance that Anderson knew about what was going on with Shepard, maybe even that he has Cerberus ties himself.  Remember, there's video footage of him meeting with a Cerberus agent in the Shadow Broker DLC.

Hackett - Likely was talking to Anderson and taking his cues from him.  I also suspect that maybe Hackett has Cerberus ties, but we really don't know for sure.

Garrus - I always get the feeling that Garrus is a little too willing to follow Shepard, that he looks at Shepard like a little kid looks at their older sibling.  Also, he had every merc group on Omega about to kill him, and just had half his face ripped off by an attack helicopter. It's not like he could have opted not to go along with Shepard, especially as there was still a bounty out on his head.

Liara - Knew what was going on because she was the one who delivered Shepard's body to Cerberus, so of course she trusts Shepard.  Ash isn't in this position because Liara, for whatever reason, opted not to provide her with info on what was going on with Shepard.

Tali - Is kind of like a female version of Garrus in my mind, the only difference being that instead of being too willing to follow Shepard solely because she looks up to him, she's a little too willing to follow him because she has a major crush.  Also, her family is powerful and influential within the fleet - meaning that it would be easy for her to arrange a leave of absence from her service.  The same can't be said of Ash.  Finally, I should note that Tali doesn't even join Shepard the first time she meets him - because, like Ash, she has another mission to carry out.  Tali only joins later because TIM gives us her location.  TIM never gives us the location of Ash so we can try again to recruit her.  Likely this is because TIM realizes that if she were willing to join, Ash would push too hard for Shepard to think for himself.

Hackett has Shepard's back and it hasn't even been hinted that he has Cerberus ties. I'm sure if Shepard asked to Borrow Operationchief williams or Commander Alenko Hackett would be willing to assign the VS to Shepard, who's still a freaking Spectre and has the council's "support" in her current endeavours. Shepard's the only one who believes and can do anything about the Reapers since the council and Allaince say sovreign was a geth ship, Garrus was on the Citadel when all the crap was being pushed aside and left for Omega to do some good, Tali went back to the migrant fleet but she still knows the reapers are real and helps shepard regardless of Gender (apparently she doesn't have a crush on Femshep so the crush factor isn't there half the time) and of course Liara did know everything and could easily have sent Ash/Kai  something that proves Shepard's actions to be right especially now that she's the shadow broker with access to the Turian and Asari Governments.

[Lord Zeuss]

@ADL: I think we can safely agree that the meeting on Horizon was handled badly by both parties. I'm not saying that everything Ash had to say was golden ("What if Cerberus is working with the Collectors?" was a pretty poor line, right up there with "It's been too long, Ash. How've you been?"), but I don't think her distrust of Cerberus was in any way out of line.

[Telemachus78]

What if you told the council to F off and not be reinstated as a SPECTRE