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[MillaShepard]

[quote]Telemachus78 wrote...



[quote]The thing that drew me towards Ash and away from Liara and Tali is that Ash will be a partner in a relationship instead of a follower

Ok, I will clarify this a little. In the end of ME3 there will be a huge battle. With Liara I can see her sticking by Shepard's side with the rest of his squad in that battle. With Ash I can see her flanking the Reapers with her own squad. That is the type of LI I want and that is what I meant when I said I see Ash as a partner and not a follower. 
/quote]
[/quote]I agree that Ashley has proven her leadership qualities... *before* any other LI.  Before ME1 she already is a leader, making her the first *equal partner* for Shep.  I think the other LI's provide their own leadership qualities in different ways by ME2, especially Liara, but to me it seems that Ash is the only one that is on Shep's level from day 1. 

Here are a few people who agree...

 Drill Instructor Gunnery Chief Ellison noted her steadfast endurance and aggressive instincts, and promoted her to the role of squad leader, and subsequently, as platoon guide after observing her effective tutelage of the less skilled members of her training unit. Her platoon has logged unanimous positive feedback on her leadership in the recent fitness review cycle. Private Nirali Bhatia praised her focus on team-building exercises and "tough but fair" discipline.

[Xilizhra]

Wouldn't this apply to Kaidan as well? In addition, this would make Ashley an equal, yes, but not an exclusive one. Her abilities are similar to Shepard's in a similar field; in Liara's case, her abilities are in a different field, but they can easily still be considered equal. I won't cover ME2 LIs because, well, they show up after Ashley does anyway.

[MillaShepard]

While the abilities of the other LI's are certainly valuable, i don't believe that they are what warrent a good leader/equal partner for Shep, which is the point i was trying to make. It's also a personality thing. Ashley is outspoken and won't put up with Shepards s***. He needs someone who is as strong as he is emotionally and mentally. If you ask me, that person is Ash. Also, i don't think Ashley is an exclusive equal LI for Shepard, at this point. I do think she is in ME1 though. And lastly, no i don't think my above statement applies to Kaiden. Yes he's an Alliance Marine and he's made his way up to Lieutenant, but there's nothing about his character that says *leader* to me. I feel like Kaiden is more of a lover not a fighter, but that's just a matter of opinion.

[Xilizhra]

Not being a Kaidan expert myself, I can't adequately defend him (unless, of course, you're talking about Kaiden the good kid). Liara, however, is another story.

If I may repost an argument from my eminent comrade LesEnfantsTerribles, who summed up arguments against this better than I:

1) The fact that she defied Benezia and her associates
2) The manner in which she dismisses the suggestion that she is anything like her mother
3) Her refusal to assist Saren, and her defiance toward the krogan battlemaster on Therum
4) The manner in which she angrily dismisses Shepard's accusations that she is obsessed
5) Her argument with Charles Saracino, and (correct) accusations that the Terra Firma party is jingoistic and xenophobic

Ashley is certainly more bombastic and extroverted than Liara, but more of an equal in spirit? I think not.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 16 février 2011 - 10:50 .

[Rdubs]

Raanz wrote...

As I have mentioned here many times before, I think one of the last 2 DLC will contain a resolution or closure to your ME1 LI if it was either Ash or Kaidan.  I should copy and paste some of what I believe to be circumstantial evidence to back up my belief.

I couldn't find what you were referencing.  Can you post a permalink (or thread and page number) to your previous posts that talk about this?

[trobbins777]

Xilizhra wrote...

Wouldn't this apply to Kaidan as well? In addition, this would make Ashley an equal, yes, but not an exclusive one. Her abilities are similar to Shepard's in a similar field; in Liara's case, her abilities are in a different field, but they can easily still be considered equal. I won't cover ME2 LIs because, well, they show up after Ashley does anyway.

Really i think that the difference is that Liara's leadership is more professional but distant. Almost "Buisness like", while Ashley works alot closer with her subordinates. 

[Badpie]

This page needs some Ash.

[Raanz]

Badpie wrote...

This page needs some Ash.

Nice pic Badpie.

[Badpie]

 Thank ya.  <3

[MillaShepard]

@Xilizhra Your argument basically stands to say that Liara is trustworthy and opinionated. <-- in a good way for sure. But once again I can't see how any of those things make her a good leader. Equal partner? Sure! After the 'situation' with Feron is under control, and she stops making emotionally fueled decisions.



@Badpie - ^^That picture is... amazing. Love it

[Raanz]

Rdubs wrote...

Raanz wrote...

As I have mentioned here many times before, I think one of the last 2 DLC will contain a resolution or closure to your ME1 LI if it was either Ash or Kaidan.  I should copy and paste some of what I believe to be circumstantial evidence to back up my belief.

I couldn't find what you were referencing.  Can you post a permalink (or thread and page number) to your previous posts that talk about this?

Here is a link to my long-winded post, about 25 days ago.
http://social.biowar...607/247#5818744

Badpie, you picture just reminded me, I need to finish my Ash workout pic.

Modifié par Raanz, 16 février 2011 - 11:14 .

[Lord Zeuss]

Let's please leave this discussion of Liara being/not-being an 'equal partner' alone, or otherwise take it to PM. This is the Ash thread, for discussion of Ash and appreciation of Ash. 

[Batlass8]

@Badpie: You always seem to know just what the thread needs.



@Raanz: Have I said that I cannot wait for the Ash workout pic to be finished? Because I cannot! (And I mean that in a "hey, I like your art," way, not a "rush because I say so," way).

[Raanz]

Batlass8 wrote...

@Badpie: You always seem to know just what the thread needs.

@Raanz: Have I said that I cannot wait for the Ash workout pic to be finished? Because I cannot! (And I mean that in a "hey, I like your art," way, not a "rush because I say so," way).

Thanks Batlass..I will endeavor to get it done by the weekend (or over the weekend). 

[ADLegend21]

Asked this in the Ashley group:

How different would Ashley's character been had she been the biotic instead of Kaidan?

[Lord Zeuss]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Asked this in the Ashley group:
How different would Ashley's character been had she been the biotic instead of Kaidan?

I think she wouldn't be as quiet and (more or less) accepting of the marginalization by the general public of biotics as Kaidan is. Kaidan just chills and rolls with the punches, I think Ash would want to punch back every once in a while.

[StaffSgt. Dignam]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Asked this in the Ashley group:
How different would Ashley's character been had she been the biotic instead of Kaidan?

I think she wouldn't be as quiet and (more or less) accepting of the marginalization by the general public of biotics as Kaidan is. Kaidan just chills and rolls with the punches, I think Ash would want to punch back every once in a while.

Being a biotic would only increase Ash's a** kicking abilities, which I didn't think could get any better.

[Batlass8]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Asked this in the Ashley group:
How different would Ashley's character been had she been the biotic instead of Kaidan?

Assuming that she, like Kaidan, would have been sent away from her family for training at a young age?  I think Ashley would be very different.  Think about it:

• She's not growing up with her sisters, getting tight with them, relying on them to be her constants
• Her decision to join the Alliance military might have had more to do with the limited options available to human biotic rather than a desire to continue her family's tradition of service.
• Given the high value the Alliance military places on its biotics, Ashley wouldn't have been sidelined the same way she was.  As I understand it, there aren't enough human biotics to afford to shaft one.  Even if that one is General Williams' granddaughter.  That means Ash might have been on the Normandy from the beginning, and her self confidence issues would be a very different animal.

Just a few thoughts.  I think she'd be outspoken about the way human biotics are treated by human society writ large, and wouldn't be as close to her family.  Not saying she wouldn't love them, but she wouldn't have that familial foundation that seems (to me) to be such an integral part of her character.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Rdubs wrote...

OK here is a question for you all, maybe you'll be tormented by it as I am.
If you're like me, you want to know what happens between Ash and Shepard in ME3 as soon as you can find out. But, to find something out before the game is released could spoil the experience of it when the game finally comes out. For example, I couldn't wait for Dead Space 2 to come out and about a week before it did someone found and posted the first 15 minutes of gameplay on Youtube. I watched it and was happy because I had been waiting a while for the game and now I was finally seeing how it started, but when I actually got the game I really didn't enjoy the first 15 minutes because I knew what would happen.

So how about it Ash fans...will you try to read the news, rumors and trailers of ME3 prior to its release with the possibility of spoiling the role Ash plays in the game, or exhibit the kind of self-discipline only monks have and try to not find anything out about ME3?

EDIT: Milla - you can't write a chapter like that!  I mean end it the way you did!  I mean of course you can but if you're going to do that you need to write the next chapter stat!!  GJ
 

I will read and watch whatever I can b/c that way I can find out if Ash is actually in the game and what kind of role she plays. Then I will know whether to get it right away or wait to get it used a gamestop so that bioware doesn't get any money from me. lol

[DarthRic]

Rdubs wrote...

OK here is a question for you all, maybe you'll be tormented by it as I am.
If you're like me, you want to know what happens between Ash and Shepard in ME3 as soon as you can find out. But, to find something out before the game is released could spoil the experience of it when the game finally comes out. For example, I couldn't wait for Dead Space 2 to come out and about a week before it did someone found and posted the first 15 minutes of gameplay on Youtube. I watched it and was happy because I had been waiting a while for the game and now I was finally seeing how it started, but when I actually got the game I really didn't enjoy the first 15 minutes because I knew what would happen.

So how about it Ash fans...will you try to read the news, rumors and trailers of ME3 prior to its release with the possibility of spoiling the role Ash plays in the game, or exhibit the kind of self-discipline only monks have and try to not find anything out about ME3?

EDIT: Milla - you can't write a chapter like that!  I mean end it the way you did!  I mean of course you can but if you're going to do that you need to write the next chapter stat!!  GJ
 

I Intend to try and not read any info about ME3 before it is released... I will inevitably fail and then regret it later

[StaffSgt. Dignam]

Hey! Wasn't somebody going to do an Ash magazine cover a while back? I don't feel like digging through archives for the post, but whoever it was talked about doing it if we wanted and everyone said yes. He did the one for Miranda, which took some skill.

[Lord Zeuss]

Batlass8 wrote...
*mostly snip*

she wouldn't have that familial foundation that seems (to me) to be such an integral part of her character.

 I don't like this idea anymore.

[Batlass8]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Batlass8 wrote...
*mostly snip*

she wouldn't have that familial foundation that seems (to me) to be such an integral part of her character.

 I don't like this idea anymore.

I think it's an interesting idea, but I also think that that one "simple" change would have drastic effects on the character we all love.  

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Batlass8 wrote...
*mostly snip*

she wouldn't have that familial foundation that seems (to me) to be such an integral part of her character.

 I don't like this idea anymore.

lol, I didn't like it to begin with.

Ash, to me, is a soldier and can be nothing but.

[Randy1012]

Ash doesn't need biotics or any other 'enhancements.' She's perfect as she is.