14023 réponses à ce sujet

[Jhon Flash]

Batlass I share your view.

[ADLegend21]

@Bat: yeah I made it two days ago. and bright was the intended effect xD

I think, based on what we know about spectres, Candiates are evaluated by established Spectre's Anderson or Udina could have also asked Shepard who they thought would make a great second human spectre and I think Shepard vouche's for the VS. Shepard already knows how they fair in combat so no need for a few missions like how Nihlus was going to evaluate Shepard on.

[Antivenger]

Wouldn't it just be great if she were sent on another 'assignment' just before boarding the Normandy and escaping with Shepard.

I'm still not sure if the VS would be considered a 'real' SpecTRe. I mean, the first human one ended up crazy and dead, to resurface as a crazy terrorist. I wouldn't put it past the other Councillors (those aside from Anderson/Udina) to do so only to pander to his wishes.

[SlottsMachine]

 I think Ash would make a great Spectre, to me the only difference between her and Shep is that one of them had the misfortune of being blacklisted while the other did not. In ME1 they casually mention her exemplary test scores but they must have been off the damn charts for Anderson to assign her too the Normandy just like that, and have not a single person question it. Its as if the Alliance brass knew she deserved a shot, but no one had had the balls previously to let her in the damn door so to speak. I think her role in the victory at the Battle of the Citadel, is essentially her Elysium etc, as that one big success that stands above any competition. 

In comparison to Shepard anyone would seem lacking, but lets not forget that at one time him/her wasn't much different from Ash. Its true for everyone that you will never know what a person is capable of until they are tested, and the only way to find out if Ash would make a good Spectre is to give her the chance, not much different than Shep. And lets not forget the influence of Anderson not only as someone in postion of power, but also the fact that the VS is more than likely his new protege.

But I'll admit the thought of the VS becoming a Spectre does sound weird, especially with all the foreshadowing that suggested that if anyone became a Spectre it would be Garrus. And to be honest he's probably more qualified at this time, but that doesn't mean Ash isn't a worthy candidate in her own right.  

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 31 mai 2011 - 04:28 .

[MillaShepard]

I wonder though, what does making Ashley a Spectre imply? For us I mean. Is the new title going to come with new responsibilities for her or is it just going to be a title?

[SlottsMachine]

MillaShepard wrote...

I wonder though, what does making Ashley a Spectre imply? For us I mean. Is the new title going to come with new responsibilities for her or is it just going to be a title?

Yeah, that is a good question. Its must not be just a title because if that was the case why not make Garrus a Spectre, unless the writers feel they need to make it look like the VS was busy, you know doing stuff. 

Eureka! I've got it, the VS becomes a Spectre so that any changes to the character will be believable, in other words we can't complain that they derailed the character because anything would be plausible. Or maybe the writers feel to restricted by Ash as is, and they don't want another Liara fiasco, you know if where going to be positive about it, which is probably the best course of action.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 31 mai 2011 - 05:02 .

[nickkcin11]

I don't mind if they add things previously unknown to her character but I'm not going to be okay with changing. Imagine (there's no heaven dun dun dun duh duh duh dah) in ME3 Ash comes up and sounds like a nice flattering sex object. She never states her opinion and doesn't seem to be completely paranoid about the fact that Earth is being destroyed. Something (in the way she knows... damn I'm a Beatle fanatic) tells me they won't do this but Liara was completely different. Nothing was the same. No passion for research, nothing. The possibility is always there.

It is hard to write characters though. I'm trying to make a Halo Reach machinima and I've been spending a year daydreaming about what the character will look, sound, and behave like.

[MillaShepard]

Yes! In order to make any new developments in Ashley's career after 2 years of not really knowing what she's been up to, believable. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. That is of course under the assumption that she's done incredible things with her time since ME1. (Obviously she has.. duh I mean c'mon)

I feel like making her a Spectre could be either good or bad really. It just depends on what they decide to do with it. But if it's just a title with no real in-game importance then... well... what's the point?

[SlottsMachine]

MillaShepard wrote...

Yes! In order to make any new developments in Ashley's career after 2 years of not really knowing what she's been up to, believable. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. That is of course under the assumption that she's done incredible things with her time since ME1. (Obviously she has.. duh I mean c'mon)

Yep, the last thing we want is for Ash to be stagnant, a la a certain master calibrator. This may be a lame comparison but ME1 Ash is high school and ME3 Ash will be a college grad, forever changed but at the heart still the same old Ash. Because I can't even begin to imagine the effect her experiences as a Spectre would have on her. And now I am actually really excited to find out, who would have thought that when originally I thought this idea was dumb.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 31 mai 2011 - 05:46 .

[MillaShepard]

Let's just say I'm cautiously optimistic   I think we've all got good reason to be, but let's just wait and see shall we? 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'm not sure the VS being a Spectre is what I would have first written for them but to be fair I got the impression their important solo assignment was sort of a hint they could eventually get things done on their own, so in some ways their promotion and role in the second game could be seen as a hint and precursor of their ability to be a Spectre.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 31 mai 2011 - 08:18 .

[MisterLongPants]

Sorry for being so clueless about this but has it been confirmed that the VS will be a Spectre? Could I have a link, please?

I think its awesome and it would be great to see Ash (or Kaidan) in ME3 and how after needing to go thru what Shepard has had to go thru they have become really frustrated with the council.

If i figure correctly depending on your choices and the fact Anderson quit his job (whatever it happened to be) in the latest book, then it is either Udina or the original council still in power so the VS would feel no real sense of loyalty to them over Shepard and so IF the situation called for it they could help Sheparrd out against their orders

I don't know im only just speculating

[ADLegend21]

MillaShepard wrote...

I wonder though, what does making Ashley a Spectre imply? For us I mean. Is the new title going to come with new responsibilities for her or is it just going to be a title?

I'd think we'd only hear about her responsibilities since the reapers are on the attack. we might meet characters through her and Kaidan (James Vega was perhaps part of the VS's crew if they had a ship like Shepard did for the Normandy SR-1) and gain allies due to the VS's connections. ME1 squaddies are starting to pay divivdens with (most) of them being impoartant people now.

[Batlass8]

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...

 I think Ash would make a great Spectre, to me the only difference between her and Shep is that one of them had the misfortune of being blacklisted while the other did not.  *snip*  I think her role in the victory at the Battle of the Citadel, is essentially her Elysium etc, as that one big success that stands above any competition. 

In comparison to Shepard anyone would seem lacking, but lets not forget that at one time him/her wasn't much different from Ash. Its true for everyone that you will never know what a person is capable of until they are tested

*snip*

You make some good points, Slotts (although I've excised most of them, sorry).  I can feel myself wavering.  Still, there are two reasons I'm surprised by the decision to make Ash a Spectre. 

First, I'm not entirely convinced that her attitude is what they're looking for in a Spectre.  Assuming there's an ideal attitude at all... Ash doesn't like politicians.  Once she had the job, I'm sure her professionalism would kick in and she'd be polite and respectful of the Council (she'd never hang up on them, for example), but I can see her bluntness and frustration with all the niceties of diplomacy becoming an issue while she's being considered.  Add to that that she's more of an Alliance-soldier than a Council-soldier in terms of attitude (even if you Paragon her, I don't buy her suddenly switching the priority of her allegiances), and I can see whatever Spectre hiring committee they use being hesitant to gamble on her.

Second, I don't feel that's she's done anything as "standout" as Shepard has.  Granted, I have no idea what she's been up to for the past two years, so it's entirely plausible that she saved Elysium from a batarian invasion... or something....  And, I'll admit that the second human Spectre (if she even is the second, we don't know) doesn't have to be as impressive as the first one.  Still, the Battle of the Citadel seems to have turned out to be more of a Shepard-accomplishment than a team-win.  (You can't really blame the Council, it's a lot easier to praise a dead hero than a living one.  Too bad he didn't stay dead).  Before the Normandy, Ash hadn't really served in space/had a lot of the experience I'd think you'd look for in a Spectre.  Unless she did something super-amazing while Shep was--indisposed, I'll probably keep looking at her promotion as a neat little way to get her assigned to the SR-3 without getting all of us up in arms about plot holes.

All in all, I just think we need more intel on why Ashley would be made a Spectre before I'll buy into it.

Edited for spelling

Modifié par Batlass8, 31 mai 2011 - 01:54 .

[ADLegend21]

I can see your point Bat, but Shep can be made a Spectre even if shes a sole survivor and all she did was not get eaten by a Thresher Maw As it was said before her technical scores were incredible and she's an integral part of Shepard's crew n the SR-1 and Anderson being on the council could help her get noticed during Shepards absence. I know Bioware's going to get her some intersting stories so ther'll be no doubt that she and Kaidan are bonafide Spectre's that scare the pants off of insecure players who can't take character's being on their level.

[SlottsMachine]

Batlass8 wrote...

First, I'm not entirely convinced that her attitude is what they're looking for in a Spectre.  Assuming there's an ideal attitude at all... Ash doesn't like politicians.  Once she had the job, I'm sure her professionalism would kick in and she'd be polite and respectful of the Council (she'd never hang up on them, for example), but I can see her bluntness and frustration with all the niceties of diplomacy becoming an issue while she's being considered.  Add to that that she's more of an Alliance-soldier than a Council-soldier in terms of attitude (even if you Paragon her, I don't buy her suddenly switching the priority of her allegiances), and I can see whatever Spectre hiring committee they use being hesitant to gamble on her.

True, but lets not forget that Shep wasn't always a Council mouth piece in fact I'm sure the Alliance wishes he was less of one. Also, depending on how you role play it, Shepard can be a public relations disaster. 

Second, I don't feel that's she's done anything as "standout" as Shepard has.  Granted, I have no idea what she's been up to for the past two years, so it's entirely plausible that she saved Elysium from a batarian invasion... or something....  

Aside from what ADL mentioned about the sole survivor, the battle of Elysium was a tremendous ass kicking regardless of Shepard's involvement.

Ashley's overall lack of experience is her only negative IMO, but maybe its the sports fan in me that believes in this with Ash being that fantastic athlete with all the tools for greatness but hasn't put it all together yet, because look out when she does. And I think the council would recognize this, a high risk high reward situation, and I think its the nature of beings to get enamoured with what could be.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 31 mai 2011 - 02:57 .

[ADLegend21]

to piggy back on the points Slotts made, She also has good instincts. Whenoyu take the option to kill Wrex or fail to persuade him. She takes points in case Wrex tries to get the jump on Shepard. She knows when danger is coming and she knows how to deal with it. She's got brain to match her brawn.

[FireEye]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I can see your point Bat, but Shep can be made a Spectre even if shes a sole survivor and all she did was not get eaten by a Thresher Maw As it was said before her technical scores were incredible and she's an integral part of Shepard's crew n the SR-1 and Anderson being on the council could help her get noticed during Shepards absence. I know Bioware's going to get her some intersting stories so ther'll be no doubt that she and Kaidan are bonafide Spectre's that scare the pants off of insecure players who can't take character's being on their level.

Pretty much.

Not to mention, Shepard can tell off politicians, the Council, and aliens too.  Without provocation, sometimes. 

Ashley and Kaidan is simply the next best candidate to human Spectre after Shepard.  They're proven combat worthy and they no doubt have the War Hero political notoriety after the Battle of the Citadel.  Especially since humanity is going to push for them (human Spectres are mentioned in ME2 as forthcoming/already in place, in fact).

... and really, who else would you prefer to be a human Spectre?  Because Shepard being the first doesn't mean the only, and while there are no doubt highly qualified Alliance soldiers out there that would work, do you really want to say they're better than Ashley? 

Modifié par FireEye, 31 mai 2011 - 03:09 .

[Errol Dnamyx]

As much as I like everything about Ash, I don't think she is the next best Spectre candidate, if you only look at her skills. ( How do I do diplomacy??~)  There have got to be better soldiers out there than her, especially N7 members.
But she has one thing, that pretty much everyone else lacks: Knowledge of the Reapers and their plans.

Modifié par Errol Dnamyx, 31 mai 2011 - 03:44 .

[AlexRmF]

what I'm curious to find out is... if she'll be a Spectre in ME3, what will she think about my Shepard refusing to be re-instated as a Spectre (and going the renegade route for that matter) ?
I think a Spectre promotion is very likely for the VS, because they were part of the first Spectre's team and they proved themselves, not to mention the fact that Humanity is part of the Council now, and like C-Sec had to turn to humans in order to make up for the lost people, so will the Spectres (they lost 2 agents in a very short time afterall - Saren and Shepard)

[Fiery Phoenix]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

As much as I like everything about Ash, I don't think she is the next best Spectre candidate, if you only look at her skills. Especially diplomacy~ There have got to be better soldiers out there than her, especially N7 members.
But she has one thing, that pretty much everyone else lacks: Knowledge of the Reapers and their plans.

I like to think of her Spectre status as a reward from the Council for Ashley's determination and loyalty throughout the years since Shepard's disappearance. As the only surviving member from Shepard's crew who was decent enough to stay with the Alliance and not lose all hope because of what happened to the Normandy and Shepard, she has earned it.

[Lord Zeuss]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

As much as I like everything about Ash, I don't think she is the next best Spectre candidate, if you only look at her skills. Especially diplomacy~ There have got to be better soldiers out there than her, especially N7 members.
But she has one thing, that pretty much everyone else lacks: Knowledge of the Reapers and their plans.

You know, I've had a thought: Just why in heck does a Spectre need to be diplomatic? Shepard did because Shepard was a figurehead, a standard-setter, one who was to exemplify the power and essence of the individual human spirit. But Spectres are shadow agents, above the law, unaccountable, getting their hands dirty so the Council can collect political points. A Spectre is not obliged nor required to even consider public relations--just look at Saren, I can't imagine he ever held so much as one press conference to explain any of his actions.

Shepard had the pressure to be politically palatable because Shepard was paving the road for others to follow. But if Shepard had wished it, there would have been no reporters collecting lip service to information in order to spin stories having no basis in fact. Even the Council didn't really care what Shepard did, Velarn might have howled, the Slarian Councilor might have sneeringly doubted, and Tevos might have suggested Shepard consider "a wider viewpoint" at every turn, but they still let Shepard does as Shepard would. (But obviously only up to the point where their political interests diverged.)

I don't think Ashley or Kaidan would face any such special pressure to be politically likable; by the "public" or by the Council. The Council doesn't need to make known the identities of any of their Spectre agents, nor are their actions officially sanctioned (except in cases where political points are to be scored--and always disavowed when inconvenient), and thus have no need to be justified publicly. People easily confuse Spectre status with RPG Protagonist status, but they are not remotely the same thing.

It's eminently plausible for Ashley or Kaidan to be a Spectre. Shepard is a Spectre second, an RPG Protagonist first. Spectres get the job done most often in silence and obscurity. Both Ashley and Kaidan are well-suited to that task.

[Errol Dnamyx]

Lord Zeuss wrote...
It's eminently plausible for Ashley or Kaidan to be a Spectre. Shepard is a Spectre second, an RPG Protagonist first. Spectres get the job done most often in silence and obscurity. Both Ashley and Kaidan are well-suited to that task.

Getting the job done is important, yes.
But it's also important, how it's getting done.

For example, it is probably a good idea to try to talk Wrex down on Virmire, because he is an important part of your team and a future ally.
Result: Shepard got the job done.

Of course, Shepard can also just shoot him in the face instead.
Result: Shepard got the jobe done.

Modifié par Errol Dnamyx, 31 mai 2011 - 04:04 .

[ADLegend21]

Past Spectre's have proven that diplomacy is not what makes a spectre. Nihlus, from Samara's backstory, has killed innocents to get his job done which led him to fight samara for that time she talks about. Saren, frmo Anderson's backstory, blew up a facility full of scientists to get his job done, then blamed anderson for it to keep him form the spectre's. Tela Vasir worked for the shadow broker and betrayed the council and of course Saren allied with the reapers and attacked a human farming colony and is a noted human hater but he was backed by the council nonetheless. If anything ashley should be a spectre based on her skills which are amazing and of course her knowledge of the reapers which puts her a cut above the rest of the candidates.

[SlottsMachine]

In addition to Zeuss' points, how do you even judge if a soldier has diplomatic capabilities or not? Its not exactly something useful too them, in there lives up till then. I'd be much more interested in the character of the person, not whether there capable of sweet talking/handling a few politicians.

And Errol, I'm sure there are soldiers out there better suited for being a Spectre, I'm just arguing that Ash is a viable candidate herself. I like to think of Ashley's Spectre candidacy as being high risk high reward, and you can't ask for a better mentor than Anderson in ensuring that potential is realized.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 31 mai 2011 - 05:17 .