14023 réponses à ce sujet

[SilverRose208]

@V-rex: Love your post, and your rationale. I completely agree - though, I'll admit, I haven't actually gone through with any of the other romances in ME because I like Ash's so much. Even exploring the others was enough to make me feel like I was missing out.

As you point out, every interaction with Ash is so nuanced, and the progression from comrade to unresolve sexual tension to romantic partner feels completely natural, unhurried, and unforced. I think that Ash emerges as more of a 'partner' than purely a 'love interest' - which is one of the many reasons I adore the interaction.

[Lord Zeuss]

SilverRose208 wrote...

@V-rex: Love your post, and your rationale. I completely agree - though, I'll admit, I haven't actually gone through with any of the other romances in ME because I like Ash's so much. Even exploring the others was enough to make me feel like I was missing out.
As you point out, every interaction with Ash is so nuanced, and the progression from comrade to unresolve sexual tension to romantic partner feels completely natural, unhurried, and unforced. I think that Ash emerges as more of a 'partner' than purely a 'love interest' - which is one of the many reasons I adore the interaction.

They're both halves of the one whole that is Shepley by LZ's Law of Equality in Emotional Maturity.

[SilverRose208]

Lord Zeuss wrote...
They're both halves of the one whole that is Shepley by LZ's Law of Equality in Emotional Maturity.

I agree with part of this .... Don't get me wrong, I love me some Shepley ... but I don't necessarily think she's the most emotionally mature person in the galaxy.  She can be awkward and stunted in coming to terms with her feelings for Shepard (i.e. the "sorry, I'll be serious").  I do think that they're complementary and extremely well-suited to each other in a lot of ways, and I think that one of the best ways in which they match up is that Shepard brings out more of a serious, almost "adult" side to her. 

[SilverRose208]

Oh, Liam, I love her playful nature too! It's one of my favorite things about her - how that humor cuts through even the most intense moments ("Tsk" anyone? ). And she is incredibly layered. And worth it? Yeah ... she's that too...



Because I haven't seen this one posted 'round these parts in a while:

[Errol Dnamyx]

I enjoy all the conversations with her, but the best part is right before the lurve scene. Shepard says something like "Get over here" and she just responds "Make me."

She´s just awesome... that is all.

[Lord Zeuss]

SilverRose208 wrote...

Lord Zeuss wrote...
They're both halves of the one whole that is Shepley by LZ's Law of Equality in Emotional Maturity.

I agree with part of this .... Don't get me wrong, I love me some Shepley ... but I don't necessarily think she's the most emotionally mature person in the galaxy.  She can be awkward and stunted in coming to terms with her feelings for Shepard (i.e. the "sorry, I'll be serious").  I do think that they're complementary and extremely well-suited to each other in a lot of ways, and I think that one of the best ways in which they match up is that Shepard brings out more of a serious, almost "adult" side to her. 

Throughout the game, I always--always--thought of Shepard and Ashley as being on equal footing with regards to their level of emotional maturity, unlike say Shepard and Tali, or Shepard and Liara (or even Shepard and Thane, although the roles are reversed in that instance). Especially when considering that when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of being in a relationship with someone, Ash can be as serious and solemn as they come.

Even to use your example as my own, I think her tendency to overindulge in humor can be seen as evidence that she knows the limits of her ability to express strongly felt emotions. It's like learning to laugh at yourself when you make a mistake; you might still make the mistake, but you grow from it. So I think you're maybe not giving her enough credit on the maturity scale. As we responsible adults well know, maturity has a readily accessible on-off switch, and the range of Ashley's characterization suggest that she is well-versed in its use.

I think she prefers to stay light-hearted during casual chit-chat and whenever she can get away with it in expressing deep-felt emotions, but she definitely knows when and how to be solemn-facedf and serious about something.

"'I don't need money, a knight in shining armor, or a man to make me
happy; this is who I am... I like her, and you best too."

'Nuff said.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

I enjoy all the conversations with her, but the best part is right before the lurve scene. Shepard says something like "Get over here" and she just responds "Make me."
She´s just awesome... that is all.

[SilverRose208]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Throughout the game, I always--always--thought of Shepard and Ashley as being on equal footing with regards to their level of emotional maturity, unlike say Shepard and Tali, or Shepard and Liara (or even Shepard and Thane, although the roles are reversed in that instance). Especially when considering that when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of being in a relationship with someone, Ash can be as serious and solemn as they come.

Even to use your example as my own, I think her tendency to overindulge in humor can be seen as evidence that she knows the limits of her ability to express strongly felt emotions. It's like learning to laugh at yourself when you make a mistake; you might still make the mistake, but you grow from it. So I think you're maybe not giving her enough credit on the maturity scale. As we responsible adults well know, maturity has a readily accessible on-off switch, and the range of Ashley's characterization suggest that she is well-versed in its use.

I think she prefers to stay light-hearted during casual chit-chat and whenever she can get away with it in expressing deep-felt emotions, but she definitely knows when and how to be solemn-facedf and serious about something.

"'I don't need money, a knight in shining armor, or a man to make me
happy; this is who I am... I like her, and you best too."

'Nuff said.

I don't believe that Ash is immature, as I would argue for the other two ladies you mentioned (I have nothing against them - but, yes, I do think that they're a bit immature).  I view her relationship with Shepard as a true progression, and I think that being around him brings out elements of her personality that we otherwise wouldn't see (and don't, if you're playing as FemShep, actually).  I see Ash growing into their relationship as she makes sense of things, and I think that the relationship is the stronger for it.  They bring out the best in each other and balance each other; that's pretty much the ideal, IMO.

I really don't think that she's as emotionally mature as Shepard is at first, but I see her struggling with her emotions and reconciling her feelings for him, and I view that as growth.  Do I think they're equals?  Absolutely.  But I think that she has a lot of room for growth, and you see her maturing throughout the course of the game and series - even comparing her in ME1 vs. the cameo in ME2.  As I've said before, I thoroughly believe that the ME1 Ash would not have handled Horizon in the same way - and I fully believe that it would have been entirely less graceful than what we see in ME2. 

Anyway - there's enough room for different interpretation, and I can respect yours, and you've constructed your argument well.... but I am still standing by what I think. 

[Lord Zeuss]

SilverRose208 wrote...

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Throughout the game, I always--always--thought of Shepard and Ashley as being on equal footing with regards to their level of emotional maturity, unlike say Shepard and Tali, or Shepard and Liara (or even Shepard and Thane, although the roles are reversed in that instance). Especially when considering that when it comes down to the nitty-gritty of being in a relationship with someone, Ash can be as serious and solemn as they come.

Even to use your example as my own, I think her tendency to overindulge in humor can be seen as evidence that she knows the limits of her ability to express strongly felt emotions. It's like learning to laugh at yourself when you make a mistake; you might still make the mistake, but you grow from it. So I think you're maybe not giving her enough credit on the maturity scale. As we responsible adults well know, maturity has a readily accessible on-off switch, and the range of Ashley's characterization suggest that she is well-versed in its use.

I think she prefers to stay light-hearted during casual chit-chat and whenever she can get away with it in expressing deep-felt emotions, but she definitely knows when and how to be solemn-facedf and serious about something.

"'I don't need money, a knight in shining armor, or a man to make me
happy; this is who I am... I like her, and you best too."

'Nuff said.

I don't believe that Ash is immature, as I would argue for the other two ladies you mentioned (I have nothing against them - but, yes, I do think that they're a bit immature).  I view her relationship with Shepard as a true progression, and I think that being around him brings out elements of her personality that we otherwise wouldn't see (and don't, if you're playing as FemShep, actually).  I see Ash growing into their relationship as she makes sense of things, and I think that the relationship is the stronger for it.  They bring out the best in each other and balance each other; that's pretty much the ideal, IMO.

I really don't think that she's as emotionally mature as Shepard is at first, but I see her struggling with her emotions and reconciling her feelings for him, and I view that as growth.  Do I think they're equals?  Absolutely.  But I think that she has a lot of room for growth, and you see her maturing throughout the course of the game and series - even comparing her in ME1 vs. the cameo in ME2.  As I've said before, I thoroughly believe that the ME1 Ash would not have handled Horizon in the same way - and I fully believe that it would have been entirely less graceful than what we see in ME2. 

Anyway - there's enough room for different interpretation, and I can respect yours, and you've constructed your argument well.... but I am still standing by what I think. 

Yes, obviously there is always room for growth in any character. I will even allow that Ashley is pretty green at the beginning of the game, but goshdarn it she adapts both well and fastly--pretty soon I almost think *she* ought to be giving *Shepard* orders (in ME1; it goes without saying that she should be in ME2 ).

...Of course, Shepard's emotional state is entirely dependent in the sensibility (or insensibility, as the case may be) of the player, so we might call that into question...

But no, I have no objections to any of your stated points. I approve of your post.

[Lord Zeuss]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Errol Dnamyx wrote...

I enjoy all the conversations with her, but the best part is right before the lurve scene. Shepard says something like "Get over here" and she just responds "Make me."
She´s just awesome... that is all.

"You still sassing me, soldier? I think you need more physical training."

"Now what will it take to convince you I'm in prime physical condition?"

[Giggles_Manically]

I wonder what Ash will feel about the crew in ME3

Tali and Garrus she knows

Mordin she might find funny, or get wierded out if he gives her the talk.

Thane she might act like Jacob around

Samara she might be in awe of. Super tough space lady who can use AR?

With Legion there may be trust problems as well as with Miranda and Jacob

I remeber people saying Grunt may treat her like his mama somewhere.

I doubt she would get along with Zaeed overmuch, but she may like Kasumi. (if dlc npcs are in 3)



What about the rest of you

[Lord Zeuss]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I wonder what Ash will feel about the crew in ME3
Tali and Garrus she knows
Mordin she might find funny, or get wierded out if he gives her the talk.
Thane she might act like Jacob around
Samara she might be in awe of. Super tough space lady who can use AR?
With Legion there may be trust problems as well as with Miranda and Jacob
I remeber people saying Grunt may treat her like his mama somewhere.
I doubt she would get along with Zaeed overmuch, but she may like Kasumi. (if dlc npcs are in 3)

What about the rest of you

There's some talk that Ash might be a little intrigued by Thane's religious beliefs. Personally, I think she might take issue with Samara's black-and-white ruthlessness.

[Giggles_Manically]

Meh Samara is a perfect example of a Paragade Shep, which is like me anyway. Besides Samara only kills people who fight her, or are working for the wrong side. Insert the well known Wrex quote.

[SilverRose208]

I think she'd be intrigued by Samara and her code, though she might not always like it, and I think she'd be curious about Thane's faith. Honestly, I think she'd get along with everyone with time - including Jack and Miranda. I can see her becoming good friends with Kasumi - Ash always seemed to know the ship gossip in ME1, and I can see those two chatting and drinking at the little Kasumi bar fairly frequently. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for those chats!

[Spornicus]

I hope Ashley and Shepard patch things up in ME3. I think she is my favorite LI, and it'd be a shame if she gets written off.



And I think Ashley would get along with everybody except Grunt, Mordin, and Legion. She won't trust Legion, of course, she'll think Grunt will kill everyone, and I just can't see her liking a scientist like Mordin.

[Nightodie]

Evening! A friendly bump from the KAST Night Crew!

[Jenova65]

Another bump from KAST (day shift) ;-)

[V-rex]

Spornicus wrote...

I hope Ashley and Shepard patch things up in ME3. I think she is my favorite LI, and it'd be a shame if she gets written off.

And I think Ashley would get along with everybody except Grunt, Mordin, and Legion. She won't trust Legion, of course, she'll think Grunt will kill everyone, and I just can't see her liking a scientist like Mordin.

I certainly don't see her being welcoming to Legion right away but if I was able to get Tali to concede and be friends with Legion I'm sure I can convince her too. I also don't deny that she'd have a few issues with Grunt, after all even after meeting Wrex who was a very dignified and much more mature Krogan it took a little while for Ashley to shake that conception most of the galaxy have that Krogan are violent savages (After Virmire I got the feeling that her distrust of Wrex had faded a little, largely because their elevator banter was much friendlier) so to see Grunt who now is relentless and out of control would be very unnerving.
I don't think she'd have too much of an issue with Mordin though, after all even though she is still somewhat uncomfortable around aliens (though as anyone on this thread can attest she's well and truly no 'racist') she clearly had no trouble working with the Salarians on Virmire. From her being the one talking to Kirrahe and her happily volunteering to work with them in battle and even working quite well with them I think she'd get along quite well with Mordin. They'd also have common ground given they both know Kirrahe.

As for the rest, well I don't think she'd like Jacob much or even at all simply because he left the Alliance willingly and that would be considered betrayal. She probably wouldn't have any real hostility to Samara or Thane and in fact may well be intrigued that there are other people on the ship who clearly believe in some form of higher power. I reckon Jack and her might hit it off but also given Jack is much more aggressive than she is I doubt it'll last long. She got along quite well with Tali in Mass Effect 1 especially in their elevator conversations and while she had some issues with Garrus in Mass Effect I get the feeling that this new 'badass' Garrus would be much more interesting to her at least to talk to plus they would be familiars so she'd probably like them.

As for Miranda, well she may be impressed to see that Miranda left Cerberus and may develop respect for her for that but it's also worth noting that Miranda is the high class snobby sort of person whereas Ashley is a blunt down to earth sort of girl as a result I get the feeling their personalities would clash a fair bit.

EDIT; By the way, thanks for the support and around here you most certainly aren't alone in hoping for Ashley and Shepard being able to patch things up.

Modifié par V-rex, 08 juillet 2010 - 03:57 .

[KendallX23]

ok..Miranda is not a snob...she is hiding under this guise to not let people get to close to her...bad past makes it understandable...plus she has high standards for herself and others...

I don't think Ash would have such big problems with her now that she left Cerberus....as for Jacob....hmm..would be interesting to see a conversation about him betraying the Alliance...since unlike most forum..i like Jacob i would hope there would be no actual conflict between them...other then verbal ofc

[V-rex]

KendallX23 wrote...

ok..Miranda is not a snob...she is hiding under this guise to not let people get to close to her...bad past makes it understandable...plus she has high standards for herself and others...

Yeah I know, that was kind of harsh words but what I meant is both kind of have very different personalities and therefore it's uncertain how they'd respond to each other.

I don't think Ash would have such big problems with her now that she left Cerberus....as for Jacob....hmm..would be interesting to see a conversation about him betraying the Alliance...since unlike most forum..i like Jacob i would hope there would be no actual conflict between them...other then verbal ofc

Likewise, I wouldn't expect outright hostility but I doubt they'd get along all that well. Afterall she really only forgave Shepard for leaving the Alliance to serve Cerberus because she loves him, I doubt Jacob would get the same curtosy. That said, I think they could probably still get along in the end.

[shotgun-shepard]

BUMP!


Boo

Bop

Dee

BUMP! (from the KAST!)

[V-rex]

shotgun-shepard wrote...
*snip*
BUMP! (from the KAST!)

This bump and these pictures are welcomely received, thank you.

From the Ash fans to Kast, thanks for the bump and great pictures. The Mighty V-rex is pleased.

Modifié par V-rex, 08 juillet 2010 - 11:37 .

[shotgun-shepard]

No problem V-rex, since I like to go on a crazy with the flycam, I may as well share!