141 réponses à ce sujet

[Meltcare]

Lemonwizard wrote...

I've updated the OP with some banners.

Now that we got that covered it's discussion time!

Modifié par Meltcare, 29 mai 2010 - 08:23 .

[Lemonwizard]

v

Sand King wrote...

Lemonwizard what would like to talk
about? (seriously)

Well for starters, we need to figure out why everybody hates Councilor Velarn so we can begin dismissing their claims and re-indoctrinating them to understand how awesome he is.

Modifié par Lemonwizard, 29 mai 2010 - 07:11 .

[Festi]

People seem to have an issue with Velarn because he dismisses their claims, and does so somewhat sarcastically.  Velarn seems to be the guy who second guesses Shepard most of the time.  For instance, ME1: Kill the Rachni, he yells at you for wipping out a species.  Don't kill the Rachni, he's like... well you better hope they don't try to kill us all again...
Here is why this is a good thing.  He doesn't just blindly believe Shepard.  He pushes Shepard to support what she/he has done rather than just making mindless one time choices.  Velarn is a smart guy.  Besides that, Velarn challanges Shepard, they have a good chemistry in the way the oppose eachother.  He is like a rival who is fighting for the same team.  He's also written well and without him the council would mostly just be that shifty Salerean and theat wishy-washy  Asari.  Councilor Velarn knows just how to push your buttons...

[Lemonwizard]

Okay, so the guy who is running the stickied "links to all character fan threads" has denied us because he thinks we're a joke, and then proceeded to link to the Kelly fan thread...





This is unacceptable. We need to advocate for our guy!





http://social.biowar...8/index/2742361

[Christmas Ape]

I don't like Velarn, being written as an intentional goad against Shepard at every turn (and a hypocrite to boot), but I do like that he's in the game. He's a love-to-hate character, which I will support gladly, even if just for the sake of Shepard laying him out in the middle of an air-quote at the end of ME3.

"Dismissed, Councilor."

[Lemonwizard]

I think every good story needs a few characters that you can just bash on, to keep things interesting.







For me, that character is Udina, though. Velarn I actually like like, not like as a good bashing target.







Still, I think I can agree with a good tempered hater on this one: we want him in the game!

[Sharn01]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Okay, so the guy who is running the stickied "links to all character fan threads" has denied us because he thinks we're a joke, and then proceeded to link to the Kelly fan thread...


This is unacceptable. We need to advocate for our guy!


http://social.biowar...8/index/2742361

I guess we need to get more members so he has no choice then.  Though the membership is growing faster then some characters I can think of did when they where first created.

[Meltcare]

Sharn01 wrote...

I guess we need to get more members so he has no choice then.  Though the membership is growing faster then some characters I can think of did when they where first created.

Well we can focus on getting more people to join our group and with that the thread will come to life as well and they won't be able to  us.

[Lemonwizard]

I mean I understand that he thinks it's a joke thread because half the thread is joke posts, since it took people a while to realize that I actually DO think Councilor Velarn is cool, but still.....



There's no reason that he should be harder to convince of my intent than Chris Priestly.



It's not like the other character threads haven't got fluff posts in them.

[Meltcare]

Lemonwizard wrote...

I mean I understand that he thinks it's a joke thread because half the thread is joke posts, since it took people a while to realize that I actually DO think Councilor Velarn is cool, but still.....

Give it time. If we keep getting support and get the thread going they will acknowlegde us.

[lovgreno]

Lemonwizard wrote...
I mean I understand that he thinks it's a joke thread because half the thread is joke posts, since it took people a while to realize that I actually DO think Councilor Velarn is cool, but still.....

I think your opinion was rather clear from the start. A joke about a character is usualy also meant as a support of that character. Or so it seems to me anyway.

[Lemonwizard]

Festi wrote...

People seem to have an issue with Velarn because he dismisses their claims, and does so somewhat sarcastically.  Velarn seems to be the guy who second guesses Shepard most of the time.  For instance, ME1: Kill the Rachni, he yells at you for wipping out a species.  Don't kill the Rachni, he's like... well you better hope they don't try to kill us all again...
Here is why this is a good thing.  He doesn't just blindly believe Shepard.  He pushes Shepard to support what she/he has done rather than just making mindless one time choices.  Velarn is a smart guy.  Besides that, Velarn challanges Shepard, they have a good chemistry in the way the oppose eachother.  He is like a rival who is fighting for the same team.  He's also written well and without him the council would mostly just be that shifty Salerean and theat wishy-washy  Asari.  Councilor Velarn knows just how to push your buttons...

It's like the classic Udina vs. Anderson argument on believing Shepard about the reapers. Udina does the wrong thing for the right reasons, Anderson does the right thing for the wrong reasons. One of them just got lucky on which thing they assumed was true in a situation where things weren't entirely clear.



Councilor Velarn is really great in this respect, though, because Shepard (and especially renegade Shepard) is somebody who's very, very good at persuading or intimidating others into seeing his point of view and Councilor Velarn, no matter what tone you take with him, makes it very clear that he's not intimidated by you the way everybody else is. He won't be pushed aside. Even though he ultimately turns out to be wrong in the omniscient narrative, he's standing for his principles and won't compromise them just because some hot-shot spectre says so.


I like that.

[Festi]

^ Yeah. This is why Velarn is such a great character. One of my favorite moments, besides the "Ah, yes reapers...", is from ME1 if you decide to wipe out the Rachni. There is a really good exchange there, and of course, since Shepard has done something I think was evil it made the Turian Councilor appear in a very positive light. Part of everything is how you play, like it always is. My major problems with Udina were my natural distrust in politicians and his grounding of the Normandy. I love the "political sh*t storm" line from ME2 though. Velarn is like the check on the council though. He is there to question everything, but that's good. He's like the "wait a minute guys" voice that pops in when something is clearly questionable (and renegade Shep definitely is). But not to the point where he's a complete nuisance, besides, he does it with style... Sure the council could lead with out him... but they wouldn't look as good doing it.

[Sharn01]

http://social.biowar...5/index/1378419


Thought this would be a good place to link one of my favorite threads about the Turian couciler Valern.

[Homebound]

Ah yes, "Valern".

[Christmas Ape]

I think Temporary Squadmate Velarn would be a fantastic nod in ME3.
In a scorched room on the Presidium, flames and alarms washing the background red-orange:
"Shepard, I'll be honest with you. I don't like you, I don't trust you, and I think your species' reach far exceeds its grasp."
The Councilor hefts an assault rifle into camera view, checks the sighting, and slaps in a fresh thermal clip.
"But I'll be busted down to first tier citizen before I let these (turian expletive redacted) drive me off the Citadel a second time. This is our station now. Charge and lock, Shepard - I'll take point."

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 01 juin 2010 - 07:12 .

[Homebound]

Christmas Ape wrote...

I think Temporary Squadmate Velarn would be a fantastic nod in ME3.
In a scorched room on the Presidium, flames and alarms washing the background red-orange:
"Shepard, I'll be honest with you. I don't like you, I don't trust you, and I think y--."
*Carnifex Handcannon discharges*
-snip-

See if that was me, I woulda shot him by now.

+50 Paragon.

Mission Complete.
20000 exp
5000 iridium
New costume for Garrus Vakarian
new weapon Air-quotes bazooka
Council is now loyal

Modifié par Just_mike, 01 juin 2010 - 07:21 .

[Eternal Density]

Christmas Ape wrote...

In a scorched room on the Presidium, flames and alarms washing the background red-orange:
"Shepard, I'll be honest with you. I don't like you, I don't trust you, and I think your species' reach far exceeds its flexibility."

"Fixed" that for you

[Lemonwizard]

Sharn01 wrote...

http://social.biowar...5/index/1378419


Thought this would be a good place to link one of my favorite threads about the Turian couciler Valern.

While I doubt that will actually happen, it would be cool if the council was working against the reapers all along and just wasn't sure if you could be trusted after Cerberus' antics may or may not have messed with your head.



Of course, even cooler would be temporary squadmate Councilor Velarn, which I approve of 100%.

[philiposophy]

I hope BioWare does something good with Velarn (is that actually his name? The subtitles just say "Turian Councilor") in ME3. For a lot of the first two games they just made him someone to hate, which I found annoying.

[Lemonwizard]

philiposophy wrote...

I hope BioWare does something good with Velarn (is that actually his name? The subtitles just say "Turian Councilor") in ME3. For a lot of the first two games they just made him someone to hate, which I found annoying.

Well having somebody to hate is an important part of a story, the hero needs more small challenges (like dealing with less than cooperative authority figures) to overcome along the way just to keep audience fatigue due to nothing every getting solved from setting in when you have a long work like a 30 hour game. But again, the general trend of uncooperative authority figures who are still ultimately on the side of good is that they serve as an obstacle to the protagonist until the very end when they ultimately pitch in to help. Sort of like how if you saved the Destiny Ascension, our buddy Councilor Velarn is grateful and happy and all nice and declaring a human councilor for you and all that jazz.


I think we can expect a similar scene in ME3 if the council plays a significant role.

[Festi]

I really miss the conferences with the council from ME1. Talking to TIM just isn't as much fun for me (except for when I get to be very contrary to him) three people are more fun not just because there is more but because they interact with each other. You can see a process going on, with TIM its just he tells you what to do and you do or do not do that thing. Councilor Velarn was really the highlight of those conversations too. With out him it would just be a bunch of the Asari agreeing with the Salerean and vis versa. He seems like the strongest voice but at the same time very reasonable considering that he is a politician and that he has to deal with a lot of other stuff. Also, I don't want to breath in TIM's second hand holographic smoke... it's the 22nd century... and he smokes a cigarette that looks like a piece of chalk? C'mon, it's Cerberus... he could at least have one of those electric ones... they even have those now... (sorry random rambling...)

[Eternal Density]

Festi wrote...

I really miss the conferences with the council from ME1. Talking to TIM just isn't as much fun for me (except for when I get to be very contrary to him) three people are more fun not just because there is more but because they interact with each other. You can see a process going on, with TIM its just he tells you what to do and you do or do not do that thing. Councilor Velarn was really the highlight of those conversations too. With out him it would just be a bunch of the Asari agreeing with the Salerean and vis versa. He seems like the strongest voice but at the same time very reasonable considering that he is a politician and that he has to deal with a lot of other stuff. Also, I don't want to breath in TIM's second hand holographic smoke... it's the 22nd century... and he smokes a cigarette that looks like a piece of chalk? C'mon, it's Cerberus... he could at least have one of those electric ones... they even have those now... (sorry random rambling...)

Yeah, the debriefing in ME2 is lacking
As for TIM's smoking, I think the answer can be summed up as:
"Cerberus is a pretty cool guy, eh kills aliens to advance humanity and doesn't afraid of carcinogens."

but back on topic:
"Ah yes" is a pretty cool Turian, eh uses "fingerquotes" and doesn't afraid of "Reapers".

[Lemonwizard]

Festi wrote...

 Talking to TIM just isn't as much fun for me (except for when I get to be very contrary to him)

And even then, with the absolute most renegade conversation options, the fights aren't nearly so entertaining as the council ones.



And they never let you hang up on TIM. >:-(

Modifié par Lemonwizard, 02 juin 2010 - 07:36 .

[Festi]

Lemonwizard wrote...

Festi wrote...

 Talking to TIM just isn't as much fun for me (except for when I get to be very contrary to him)

And even then, with the absolute most renegade conversation options, the fights aren't nearly so entertaining as the council ones.



And they never let you hand up on TIM. >:-(

Yeah.  I love losing the signal when on renegade.  It's really some pretty cute humor they put in there.  I think even the end of ME2 where you can tell TIM to shove off really could be more epic.  It's pretty cool, probably the best conflict the entire time.  Shepard sometimes feels a little wishy washy to me though...  In ME1 though, even when you were paragon you could spark a good exchange.  Though I have to admit one of my favorites is the renegade convo. if you kill the Rachni... "That depends... Turian"  Watch yourself Shepard!  You're talking to a member of the council.  That was great in so many ways.  It's hard to keep a rouge spectar on track, have to remind them they work for the council, not the other way around.  Oi, sorry for the jumbled post though, super sleepy