you know none of this would be a problem if NG+ was a real NG+ and EVERYTHING carried over including paragon and renegade meters......but no...it had to be modified for no reason
Paragon/Renegade system in ME2 restricts roleplaying
Débuté par
Collider
, mai 26 2010 01:36
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#152
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 03:21
Bigdoser
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People should really read this. Also dean your posts are amazing on this subject.badkenbad wrote...
Ecael wrote...
How did you manage that? I'm somewhat baffled...badkenbad wrote...
Here's the proof (I have the save file, if you want it):
I don't know what to tell you.
I did this playthrough in parallel with my YouTube hardcore sentinel videos, so that I would have a different character to practice and experiment with. For the most part, I chose middle conversation options throughout the game. Occasionally I'd do a Paragon or Renegade option for fun. Usually I also did the Paragon/Renegade interrupts. That's where most of the Renegade came from, I'm sure.
I did the Heretic Station mission right at the end of the game, after retrieving the IFF, and before the suicide mission. When it came to the Tali/Legion conflict, I took Legion's side, because neither the Paragon nor Renegade options were available during the "discussion." After the fight I went and talked to Tali, and "charmed" her back into being loyal. I guess Tali is a softie when it comes to a Paragon Shepard.
I still think the premise of this thread is wrong. You are not restricted from roleplaying, you are restricted from doing whatever the hell you want and getting away with it. Mass Effect 2 rewards creative gameplay, it doesn't get in the way of it.
Modifié par Bigdoser, 27 mai 2010 - 03:27 .
#153
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 03:28
Ecael
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Ah, I never even thought that having only that much Paragon can resolve the argument.badkenbad wrote...
Ecael wrote...
How did you manage that? I'm somewhat baffled...badkenbad wrote...
Here's the proof (I have the save file, if you want it):
I don't know what to tell you.
I did this playthrough in parallel with my YouTube hardcore sentinel videos, so that I would have a different character to practice and experiment with. For the most part, I chose middle conversation options throughout the game. Occasionally I'd do a Paragon or Renegade option for fun. Usually I also did the Paragon/Renegade interrupts. That's where most of the Renegade came from, I'm sure.
I did the Heretic Station mission right at the end of the game, after retrieving the IFF, and before the suicide mission. When it came to the Tali/Legion conflict, I took Legion's side, because neither the Paragon nor Renegade options were available during the "discussion." After the fight I went and talked to Tali, and "charmed" her back into being loyal. I guess Tali is a softie when it comes to a Paragon Shepard.
I still think the premise of this thread is wrong. You are not restricted from roleplaying, you are restricted from doing whatever the hell you want and getting away with it. Mass Effect 2 rewards creative gameplay, it doesn't get in the way of it.
How did you approach Miranda/Jack's loyalty?
#154
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 03:56
Mayson02
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I'm not sure if I see the point of having a meter depicting your paragon and renegade abilities or even places on the "dialogue wheel" where the paragon and renegade choices go.
I think you should be able to say what you want and have the consequences reflect what you said or did (with no meter).
That way you can play each situation as you see fit without worrying that you'll, for some reason, become retarded at a later point and not be able to say the thing you want to say and have the desired outcome.
I think that some situations require a "nice" response and some require a "bad" one, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to be a smooth talker at a later date. I should be able to punch everyone I see in the face on Feros and then go to the citadel and smooth talk the entire council to have sex with me if I say the right thing. (Baby, shut your mouth. You know you're the only council for me)
I think you should be able to say what you want and have the consequences reflect what you said or did (with no meter).
That way you can play each situation as you see fit without worrying that you'll, for some reason, become retarded at a later point and not be able to say the thing you want to say and have the desired outcome.
I think that some situations require a "nice" response and some require a "bad" one, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to be a smooth talker at a later date. I should be able to punch everyone I see in the face on Feros and then go to the citadel and smooth talk the entire council to have sex with me if I say the right thing. (Baby, shut your mouth. You know you're the only council for me)
Modifié par Mayson02, 27 mai 2010 - 03:57 .
#155
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 04:12
Jzadek72
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Definitely. I find I can just about stick in a good character, but it takes a lot of work. I'd much rather just scrap the system completely.
#156
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 05:06
mosor
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Never had a problem being mixed.
1. Zaeed I can resolve with a bar of paragon if I do it before Horizon if I save the hostages
2. Don't need much of either if I force the Miranda/Jack fight before the collector ship. Though to save Aresh I need a decent amount of paragon or use the quick interrupt that appears.
3.If I do samara's quest soon after the collector ship it's easier to have the charm options availavble then if I wait a couple missions, Same goes for the I'm a spectre start talking charm in thane's.
The hardest for me to outright charm was the Tali/Legion loyalty. It doesn't take as much paragon as renegade.
I had a 190 paragon and a 160 renegade bonus from ME1 and this game I ended up with a full renegade bar and 3/4 paragon. Played exactly how I wanted to, and rarely chose the neutral option.
1. Zaeed I can resolve with a bar of paragon if I do it before Horizon if I save the hostages
2. Don't need much of either if I force the Miranda/Jack fight before the collector ship. Though to save Aresh I need a decent amount of paragon or use the quick interrupt that appears.
3.If I do samara's quest soon after the collector ship it's easier to have the charm options availavble then if I wait a couple missions, Same goes for the I'm a spectre start talking charm in thane's.
The hardest for me to outright charm was the Tali/Legion loyalty. It doesn't take as much paragon as renegade.
I had a 190 paragon and a 160 renegade bonus from ME1 and this game I ended up with a full renegade bar and 3/4 paragon. Played exactly how I wanted to, and rarely chose the neutral option.
#157
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 05:27
Foolsfolly
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mosor wrote...
Never had a problem being mixed.
1. Zaeed I can resolve with a bar of paragon if I do it before Horizon if I save the hostages
2. Don't need much of either if I force the Miranda/Jack fight before the collector ship. Though to save Aresh I need a decent amount of paragon or use the quick interrupt that appears.
3.If I do samara's quest soon after the collector ship it's easier to have the charm options availavble then if I wait a couple missions, Same goes for the I'm a spectre start talking charm in thane's.
The hardest for me to outright charm was the Tali/Legion loyalty. It doesn't take as much paragon as renegade.
I had a 190 paragon and a 160 renegade bonus from ME1 and this game I ended up with a full renegade bar and 3/4 paragon. Played exactly how I wanted to, and rarely chose the neutral option.
Same.
System works. Game's great.
People gotta complain because they love it.
#158
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 05:34
Dean_the_Young
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Oh, it could stand some tweaking, to be sure. And if Paragon/Renegade alone transferred over in a New Game + like the Charm/Intimidate points did in ME1, I think that would actually give reason to playing New Game +.
#159
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 06:37
Lumikki
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Good question. As you can see in the picture that Jack is not loyal.Ecael wrote...
Ah, I never even thought that having only that much Paragon can resolve the argument.badkenbad wrote...
Ecael wrote...
How did you manage that? I'm somewhat baffled...badkenbad wrote...
Here's the proof (I have the save file, if you want it):
I don't know what to tell you.
I did this playthrough in parallel with my YouTube hardcore sentinel videos, so that I would have a different character to practice and experiment with. For the most part, I chose middle conversation options throughout the game. Occasionally I'd do a Paragon or Renegade option for fun. Usually I also did the Paragon/Renegade interrupts. That's where most of the Renegade came from, I'm sure.
I did the Heretic Station mission right at the end of the game, after retrieving the IFF, and before the suicide mission. When it came to the Tali/Legion conflict, I took Legion's side, because neither the Paragon nor Renegade options were available during the "discussion." After the fight I went and talked to Tali, and "charmed" her back into being loyal. I guess Tali is a softie when it comes to a Paragon Shepard.
I still think the premise of this thread is wrong. You are not restricted from roleplaying, you are restricted from doing whatever the hell you want and getting away with it. Mass Effect 2 rewards creative gameplay, it doesn't get in the way of it.
How did you approach Miranda/Jack's loyalty?
#160
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 07:20
Dean_the_Young
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Probably chose Miranda at the confrontation.
#161
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 03:50
snfonseka
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Check this poll results and you will get an idea of what others think.
http://social.biowar...933/polls/6113/
http://social.biowar...933/polls/6113/
#162
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 04:02
Vicious
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In ME2 it was definetly different and odd. It's a POINTS game. There is literally ZERO downside to taking EVERY SINGLE PARAGON/RENEGADE action. Why? Because doing it nets you BONUS points, while not doing it yields... NOTHING.
A great example is Miranda blowing away Niket. If you DON'T stop her, you get points based off your choices and that's it, like +4 Paragon/Renegade. If you DO then you get +5 Renegade on top of whatever choices you made.
Literally NO downside. Also beating up the Salarian in Thane's recruitment mission. Do it for bonus Renegade, don't do it for... nothing. No bonus Paragon, nothing.
So yes, I actually agree with this thread and do find it kinda restricting, it's simply foolish to take a middle choice because damn near EVER Paragon/Renegade dialogue option yields precious points you need to secure loyalty.
I ended my last game with 100% Renegade and 95% Paragon. Seriously, the Paragon bar was almost completely full, and Scar-wise, my Shepard looked exactly the same as he did in the beginning of the game.
A great example is Miranda blowing away Niket. If you DON'T stop her, you get points based off your choices and that's it, like +4 Paragon/Renegade. If you DO then you get +5 Renegade on top of whatever choices you made.
Literally NO downside. Also beating up the Salarian in Thane's recruitment mission. Do it for bonus Renegade, don't do it for... nothing. No bonus Paragon, nothing.
So yes, I actually agree with this thread and do find it kinda restricting, it's simply foolish to take a middle choice because damn near EVER Paragon/Renegade dialogue option yields precious points you need to secure loyalty.
I ended my last game with 100% Renegade and 95% Paragon. Seriously, the Paragon bar was almost completely full, and Scar-wise, my Shepard looked exactly the same as he did in the beginning of the game.
