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Why is Paragon always right?

Débuté par StrawberryViking , mai 26 2010 02:46

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#151
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:20

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Nightwriter wrote...

You must look for the absolute best solution and fight to achieve it.


The best solution is the one with the least risk. 
 

Nightwriter wrote...

We both know both paragon and renegade Shepards always complete the mission. Just in different ways. This argument is invalid.


I don't think you understand the purpose behind this thread.

#152
Massadonious1
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:24

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But Saren/Sovereign were still defeated, weren't they? I thought that was the point. The main mission wasn't affected. Anything that would of happened after the fact is irrelevant.



And from my understanding, Rachni broods take quite a while to reach fruition. Depending on how the third game ends, it would of been a blip on the radar compared to everything else he/she's done for the galaxy up until that point.



#153
Onyx Jaguar
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:24

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The purpose of this thread seems to be that the OP is trying to justify their renegade actions when they should just go with it.

#154
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Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:26

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Massadonious1 wrote...

But Saren/Sovereign were still defeated, weren't they? I thought that was the point. The main mission wasn't affected. Anything that would of happened after the fact is irrelevant.


You're as clueless as Nightwriter.

#155
Nightwriter
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:32

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Shandepared wrote...

The best solution is the one with the least risk.


No, that is the quickest and easiest solution. Lazy.

The best solution is the one that saves the most lives.
 

Shandepared...

I don't think you understand the purpose behind this thread.


The purpose behind this thread is to discuss an unfair imbalance between paragon and renegade choice outcomes.

However regardless of paragon and renegade the skeleton of the main mission turns out the same. You defeat Sovereign and save the galaxy.

Shandepared wrote...

You're as clueless as Nightwriter.


I think he is weakening, Massadonious.

Perhaps he is beginning to realize that ruthlessness is not the same thing as competency.

#156
Collider
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:33

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Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

You must look for the absolute best solution and fight to achieve it.


The best solution is the one with the least risk.

Jacob would like to have a word with you.

#157
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:35

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Nightwriter wrote...

The best solution is the one that saves the most lives.


No, the best solution is the one that guarantees completion of the mission. As a Spectre your priority is the mission. This is why Spectres have immunity from the law; because they may be obligated to do things that police officers cannot and should not do. Spectres are not cops, they are not servants of the people.
 

Nightwriter wrote...

However regardless of paragon and renegade the skeleton of the main mission turns out the same. You defeat Sovereign and save the galaxy.


You continue to demonstrate a lack of understanding concerning the topic of this thread.

Nightwriter wrote...

I think he is weakening, Massadonious.


Now you're making things up.

Collider wrote...

Jacob would like to have a word with you.


Jacob can kiss my ass.

Modifié par Shandepared, 27 mai 2010 - 09:36 .

#158
Massadonious1
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:36

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Shandepared wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

But Saren/Sovereign were still defeated, weren't they? I thought that was the point. The main mission wasn't affected. Anything that would of happened after the fact is irrelevant.


You're as clueless as Nightwriter.


I'm not sure where the disconnect is. You claimed that Paragon Shep puts insignifcant things ahead of the mission, I proved that wasn't true. What kind of answer were you looking for?

Nightwriter wrote...

I think he is weakening, Massadonious.

Perhaps he is beginning to realize that ruthlessness is not the same thing as competency.


Hah, maybe.

#159
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:38

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Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm not sure where the disconnect is. You claimed that Paragon Shep puts insignifcant things ahead of the mission, I proved that wasn't true. What kind of answer were you looking for?


I was looking for someone who understands what is being debated; you clearly don't. (and neither does Nightwriter)

#160
Massadonious1
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:39

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Shandepared wrote...

Collider wrote...

Jacob would like to have a word with you.


Jacob can kiss my ass.


He doesn't have much of a funny bone either.

#161
Nightwriter
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:40

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Shandepared wrote...

Collider wrote...

Jacob would like to have a word with you.


Jacob can kiss my ass.


Kinky.

#162
Massadonious1
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:42

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I'm pretty sure I understand the topic just fine. I don't care about "what if's" and "could of's" I care about results.



And like I said, even if those particular decisions had tangible results, none of them would of impacted the main mission in the slightest, despite BioWare's "everyone wins" gameplay design.

#163
lovgreno
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:45

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Collider wrote...
Jacob would like to have a word with you.

Jacob have a point: Heavy risks are sometimes necesary, but only when the priiize is worth it. Of course different Shepards have different ideas about what the priiize is (galactic stability, saving lives, being badass, gain allies etc...). And they all get what they want with different methods.

#164
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:46

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Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm pretty sure I understand the topic just fine.


I am quite certain you're mistaken.

That paragon allows you to complete the mission just as successfully as renegade in every case is the issue being discussed here. Obviously we all know that paragon succeeds just as fine or we wouldn't have this thread. The OP takes issue with this because it makes the renegade approach pointlessly costly in lives from a meta-game approach.

#165
Nightwriter
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:51

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That is one of the OP's points, Shand, yes, but I believe the thread is called "Why is Paragon always right" and not "Why do both choices yield the same result".

The OP is also talking about an imbalance between paragon and renegade, and the concern that paragons are rewarded more for making paragon decisons.

#166
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:53

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Nightwriter wrote...

That is one of the OP's points, Shand, yes, but I believe the thread is called "Why is Paragon always right" and not "Why do both choices yield the same result".


Same thing.

#167
Nightwriter
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:00

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Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

That is one of the OP's points, Shand, yes, but I believe the thread is called "Why is Paragon always right" and not "Why do both choices yield the same result".


Same thing.


...


Image IPB

#168
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:03

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Nightwriter it is extremely vain to post images of yourself in this thread. This isn't your personal blog.

#169
Onyx Jaguar
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:04

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Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

That is one of the OP's points, Shand, yes, but I believe the thread is called "Why is Paragon always right" and not "Why do both choices yield the same result".


Same thing.


Define Same thing

#170
Guest_m14567_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:05

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Shandepared wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

I'm pretty sure I understand the topic just fine.


I am quite certain you're mistaken.

That paragon allows you to complete the mission just as successfully as renegade in every case is the issue being discussed here. Obviously we all know that paragon succeeds just as fine or we wouldn't have this thread. The OP takes issue with this because it makes the renegade approach pointlessly costly in lives from a meta-game approach.


Why can't paragons complete missions as "successfully" as renegades? I don't understand why some renegades get bent out of shape over paragon choices. It's not like paragons have it all rosey, if you save the council in ME1, they are of no help to you in ME2. Sparing the Rachni has had no tangible effect on the game either at this point.

It seems to me that the goal here is:

1) Cry about paragon choices
2) Secretly hope bioware screws paragon choices
3) Triumphantly claim paragon choices are stupid

Modifié par m14567, 27 mai 2010 - 10:07 .

#171
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:08

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m14567 wrote...

Why can't paragons complete missions as "successfully" as renegades?


Currenty they always complete the mission more successfully, that's what annoys people. It seems renegades are trapped in an optimistic universe. I'd just like at least a few paragon choices turn out to have negative consequences.
 

#172
EffectedByTheMasses
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:11

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

That is one of the OP's points, Shand, yes, but I believe the thread is called "Why is Paragon always right" and not "Why do both choices yield the same result".


Same thing.


Define Same thing


But y'know, if they're the same thing, then it's an oxymoron. If Paragon is always right, but it has the same results as Renegade, then wouldn't that mean that Renegade is also always right? Which, if I understand correctly, defeats the whole point of this thread. :whistle:

#173
Guest_m14567_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:11

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Shandepared wrote...

m14567 wrote...

Why can't paragons complete missions as "successfully" as renegades?


Currenty they always complete the mission more successfully, that's what annoys people. It seems renegades are trapped in an optimistic universe. I'd just like at least a few paragon choices turn out to have negative consequences.
 



Give me an example of where a paragon choices is more successful than a renegade one. I can't think of any. Maybe you don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from playing a renegade but I can't think of a place where being renegade is worse than a paragon.

#174
Nightwriter
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:15

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m14567 wrote...

Why can't paragons completely missions as "successfully" as renegades? I don't understand why some renegades get bent out of shape over paragon choices. It's not like paragons have it all rosey, if you save the council in ME1, they are of no help to you in ME2. Sparing the Rachni has had no tangible effect on the game either at this point.

It seems to me that the goal here is:

1) Cry about paragon choices
2) Secretly hope bioware screws paragon choices
3) Triumphantly claim paragon choices are stupid


Outside insight into the truth of these discussions is always like a breath of fresh air.

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter it is extremely vain to post images of yourself in this
thread. This isn't your personal blog.


Shand, I have something to tell you - you and I are identical twins, separated at birth.

For years I have been searching for you, with nothing to go on but this picture, which has "bubby" written on the back of it and captures your winning smile.

Mother is willing to put the whole "sold you to a circus" thing aside. The clowns raised you well enough, didn't they?

#175
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:15

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m14567 wrote...


Give me an example of where a paragon choices is more successful than a renegade one. I can't think of any. Maybe you don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from playing a renegade but I can't think of a place where being renegade is worse than a paragon.


Save the Council, save the Rachni Queen, save the colony, save the workers. In that last case you get Zaeed's loyalty and you get more money. You see not everybody makes renegade decisions because they enjoy killing or like leaving hostages to die. They do it because they're more concerned with the big picture. The problem though is that while a renegade theoretically operates out of necessity in practice there is no reason not to play paragon because you if you trust someone they never betray you and if you risk everything to save the Council not only do you succeed but you create a more stable and cooperative galaxy on top of that.

In principle renegade works fine, most especially when you role-play it since Shepard won't have any meta-game knowledge. However to balance things at least some paragon decisions should turn out for the worse.
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