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"THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!": The Donnell Udina Support Thread

Débuté par Guest_LuckyIronAxe_* , mai 26 2010 09:07

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#101
lovgreno
Posté 26 mai 2010 - 07:10

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^^^^Yes well put, Udina is a renegade while Anderson is more of a paragon. Not saying either are necesary better than the other.



If I remember correctly he at least never openly dismissed reapers in ME2 . Clever politician. In any case he was very supportive of Anderson wich means he probably still thinks reapers are a threat.

#102
Dean_the_Young
Posté 26 mai 2010 - 07:16

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Nightwriter wrote...

This is a videogame. It is fiction. I like to talk about these things from a writing perspective. Writing is about emotion, it's about what we feel. From a writing perspective Udina was written as an unlikable character. I think his character could've flourished more if we were made to feel slightly more conflicted. Shades of gray.

Character judgement is no more about impulse in literature than anywhere else. Didn't your schools ever teach you should judge someone by what they do?

What need is there for Udina being conflicted about what he does? His goal is controversial enough.

#103
Nightwriter
Posté 26 mai 2010 - 07:33

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The "advancement of humanity" is a controversial goal? And I do judge people by what they do. Udina did ground the Normandy and potentially hinder my abilities to stop the Reapers.

But we won't get into that. Yes, I'm talking about what the average gamer likes and doesn't like. I think they made it too easy for us to dislike Udina.

#104
Dean_the_Young
Posté 26 mai 2010 - 08:50

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Nightwriter wrote...

The "advancement of humanity" is a controversial goal? And I do judge people by what they do. Udina did ground the Normandy and potentially hinder my abilities to stop the Reapers.

An action he did because you had no real proof.

If you wish to judge people by action alone, and not by reason or intent, then surely you must also follow through and favor capital punishment for Shepard's crew for helping to steal the Normandy?

But we won't get into that. Yes, I'm talking about what the average gamer likes and doesn't like. I think they made it too easy for us to dislike Udina.

Then the average gamer is easily manipulated and rather shallow and superficial. They'll like anyone who agrees with them. They'll blast someone with the gall to disagree.

Not a surprise, really, but true.

#105
Nightwriter
Posté 26 mai 2010 - 09:15

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

An action he did because you had no real proof.


Again, I am not being deliberately argumentative, but in the light of the galactic threat it does not matter much to me what his reasons were. Even if I can understand them, I can't afford to have them hinder me when there is so much at stake. 

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Then the average gamer is easily manipulated and rather shallow and superficial. They'll like anyone who agrees with them. They'll blast someone with the gall to disagree.

Not a surprise, really, but true.


LOL. How about the average consumer? We're lazy creatures, it's true.

Point being, it takes the application of logical effort to judge Udina fairly, and to whom among average consumers does a logical effort come easily or naturally? Not many bother to think as rationally as you do.

#106
Guest_LuckyIronAxe_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 12:37

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Exactly. I'd dig it if I found out he had a daughter or something, for instance. Something that makes him a bit more human and a bit more sympathetic.

The fact that you need sympathetic hooks suggests you're far more interested in judging someone by how likeable they are, as opposed to what they actually do.

Udina's an unsympathetic character, it's true. He was made to be that way: he's irratible and focused entirely on his job, which in some ways runs counter to yours. He doesn't agree with you often, is equally hostile in response to any challenge, and is far too sure of himself to bother asking your opinion. He's also ruthless and more concerned with his goal (his job and the cause behind it) than personal attachments. Most unforgivably, he doesn't believe you about the Reapers prior to Sovereign's attack, and takes measures to keep you from harming yourself and humanity.

Udina is, in short, a demonstration of a Renegade politician (as opposed to a soldier). And most unforgivably, he's a Renegade not inclined to seek your favor (like Wrex) or be ambivilant about you (like Aria).



Udina's biggest flaw, in my mind, was the about face he seemingly pulled from the end of Mass Effect 1, where he acknowledged the Reapers, to ME2, where it appears he forgot them. Now, maybe I need to check whether he's actually willingly blinded himself to their existence like the Council, or simply hasn't made it a priority like Anderson would try and fail to do. If there's someone who I could expect to keep a public secret but quietly aim to move people in a direction, it would be Udina and balancing progress towards fighting the Reapers with the need to keep aliens happy.

But like I said, I can't remember if he's gone back to denying the Reapers or not. If he's gone back to denying them, that's a real weakness of writing. If he simply has a difference of method, and especially has to balance doubters, that's far more understandable.


You have a point Dean, but I do like the idea of Udina having a daughter or something like what Nightwriter mentioned. I love Udina already, my only problem with Udina character is lack of screen time, haha, but a more sympathetic image would give him more favor among other players, which means more fans for Udina!

#107
2pac Shakur
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 12:49

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Uldina is just a political punching bag



councillors and governors dont really roll like that

#108
Some Dude
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 01:21

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QFT^

#109
Guest_LuckyIronAxe_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 02:56

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lovgreno wrote...

^^^^Yes well put, Udina is a renegade while Anderson is more of a paragon. Not saying either are necesary better than the other.

Yeah, I came to this comparison as well, makes sense, Udina is hated by 90% of ME players, while Anderson almost always gets the seat on the council even after he broke the law and unlocked the Normandy.

Modifié par LuckyIronAxe, 27 mai 2010 - 05:58 .

#110
mosor
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 09:06

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LuckyIronAxe wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

^^^^Yes well put, Udina is a renegade while Anderson is more of a paragon. Not saying either are necesary better than the other.

Yeah, I came to this comparison as well, makes sense, Udina is hated by 90% of ME players, while Anderson almost always gets the seat on the council even after he broke the law and unlocked the Normandy.


I almost always pick Udina in my renegade playthroughs. With the rebuilding of the council, you need a smart politician who is experienced. Not a military grunt. I like how he doesn't tolerate the aliens who protest on the citadel against humanity.

#111
Guest_LuckyIronAxe_*
Posté 27 mai 2010 - 10:27

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So of the four possible Mass Effect endings, what is your favorite Udina speech?

#112
VandalX187
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 01:00

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LuckyIronAxe wrote...

So of the four possible Mass Effect endings, what is your favorite Udina speech?

www.youtube.com/watch

#113
JaegerBane
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 03:14

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mosor wrote...
I almost always pick Udina in my renegade playthroughs. With the rebuilding of the council, you need a smart politician who is experienced. Not a military grunt. I like how he doesn't tolerate the aliens who protest on the citadel against humanity.


I didn't. Even for a Renegade. My Renegade Shepard does not tolerate being stabbed in the back and used. Taking one for the team for the common good is a Paragon thing.

Hell, even my Paragon one didn't pick him, on the basis the guy is a bloomin' fascist.

#114
Fiery Phoenix
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 03:39

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I AM SICK OF THIS COUNCIL AND ITS ANTI-HUMAN BUL....

#115
Guest_LuckyIronAxe_*
Posté 30 mai 2010 - 09:39

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*GASP*

#116
Onyx Jaguar
Posté 30 mai 2010 - 11:34

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:o

#117
XX55XX
Posté 30 mai 2010 - 01:17

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 I actually like Udina. He serves as a counter-weight to Andersen, and through this, it actually gives Andersen a bit more dimension, in a way. 

However, I am somewhat confused in that while Udina acknowledges the Reapers in ME1, he doesn't seem to in ME2. Perhaps this is a way of making Udina seem like an **** to the player? It feels somewhat artificial. 

#118
Guest_LuckyIronAxe_*
Posté 30 mai 2010 - 11:44

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Yeah, I don't know why Bioware feels the need to make Udina purposely unlikable, it's a low blow.

#119
Lemonwizard
Posté 31 mai 2010 - 12:56

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If a story hasn't got any characters you dislike, then the conflict gets boring.







That, and hating on a character who's a douche can be just as fun, or in some instances more fun, than rooting for a character who's cool.





I hate Udina, but would be extremely angry if he weren't in ME3.

#120
Homebound
Posté 02 juin 2010 - 02:26

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2pac Shakur wrote...

Uldina is just a political punching bag

councillors and governors dont really roll like that


Hey, Udina can be a punching bag too! Just ask Anderson!

#121
Guest_LuckyIronAxe_*
Posté 02 juin 2010 - 03:24

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Hahaha! Anderson lets his fists do the talking.

#122
Guest_LuckyIronAxe_*
Posté 02 juin 2010 - 07:11

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I'm going to make this request again, does anyone have the heart to make this thread an Udina Banner, my skills aren't high enough to make it myself.

#123
Collider
Posté 04 juin 2010 - 12:37

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I can work on that. Do you have anything in mind?

#124
Guest_LuckyIronAxe_*
Posté 08 juin 2010 - 01:14

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I don't know, I like the signatures with little heads on them, as for colors, silver and blue?

Modifié par LuckyIronAxe, 08 juin 2010 - 01:22 .

#125
Psyence1
Posté 08 juin 2010 - 04:33

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Oh cmon. It's not like anyone actually likes Udina. He's a huge douche!
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