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Flemeth, Morrigan, and what happens after


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#1
Mad Method

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Right,

Morrigan "hints" that Flemeth wouldn't die even if you killed her. The idea was that if you killed Flemeth, Morrigan could use Flemeth's real grimoire to protect herself from Flemeth in the future. On the other hand, if you don't kill Flemeth and just play along, you get to give Morrigan Flemeth's real grimoire and the implication is that Flemeth will possess Morrigan afterwards anyway.

So, it looks like whether or not you "kill" Flemeth, she will possess Morrigan eventually.

Thoughts?

Modifié par Mad Method, 27 mai 2010 - 01:50 .


#2
Befit

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I believe she will try but we won't know the end result until the sequal. (if they put it in)

#3
Eshaye

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That always sort of bugged me, it doesn't matter what you do really Flemeth still makes it sound like she'll be back no matter what. /shrug

#4
Gaxhung

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Kill her or not you do get Flemeth's real grimoire right, I suppose Morrigan might eventually become too powerful to be possessed, I am guessing if she does find Morrigan, she will meet her in another's body, or if Flemeth is killed, when she regain her powers Morrigan would have already died of old age :lol: ... hmm unless Morrigan extends her life like Flemeth does. Such a lot of possibilities.

#5
old book

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If you talk with Morrigan again after she asks you to kill Flemeth, she says that it might be enough to just get the grimore. She also says that if she could think of any way to get the grimore without killing Flemeth, she'd take it. Your character does have an out to just make the deal and skip the fight.



All of that said, we never get closure on the question. I like to think that Flemeth is really after the Godchild, not Morrigan.

#6
sylvanaerie

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I think she is too, Old Book. But I think Morrigan's plan is to get her out of the way so she can have the baby and escape. What SHE plans for it...well that remains to be seen.

I saw toolset directions someone posted in anothr thread and Flemeth was amused that Morrigan had told the PC's what she did. She also could care less about the Grimoire.

Something else is going on we won't know till maybe DA2 that's for sure.

Immortals tend to have convoluted plots all circles within circles.



Flemeth is easily one of the most interesting NPCs in the game for me.

#7
old book

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sylvanaerie wrote...

I think she is too, Old Book. But I think Morrigan's plan is to get her out of the way so she can have the baby and escape. What SHE plans for it...well that remains to be seen.
I saw toolset directions someone posted in anothr thread and Flemeth was amused that Morrigan had told the PC's what she did. She also could care less about the Grimoire.
Something else is going on we won't know till maybe DA2 that's for sure.
Immortals tend to have convoluted plots all circles within circles.

Flemeth is easily one of the most interesting NPCs in the game for me.


For me as well. I hate killing her. If it hadn't been for her, Maric would never have let the Wardens back into Ferelden, and your character wouldn't be alive. Sure, she had her own reasons, but that's a hell of a moral obligation. It feels very wrong to kill her just because she may be planning something evil down the line, more so if your character realizes that neither Morrigan nor Flemeth are being honest with him.

Of course, letting her live may mean dooming your friend / lover, and letting free a force of great potential evil in the future.

Modifié par old book, 27 mai 2010 - 10:19 .


#8
sylvanaerie

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Something I found on another board and posted on one myself with copy/paste.  Repeating it here as it has a lot of relevance

From the toolset, notes on Morrigan (for actress).  My thanks to Gilsa for posting these on the Alistair thread.  I just copy/pasted them for here.

Morrigan's character notes say ...

Description: Morrigan lacks the will to care about most things enough to excite herself over them. Her primary concern is her survival. She has a difficult time relating to other people, and feels extremely vulnerable outside of the marsh. Her sense of humor is dark and twisted, and she finds the most morbid things amusing.

Her primary goal is to gain skills and knowledge and become a powerful sorceress in her own right. She believes that having a child with the PC's blood will give her access to this power.

Personal background: Morrigan was raised in the marshes by her sorceress mother, Flemeth, and had little contact with society proper. She and Flemeth have a relationship more like servant and master than like mother and daughter. She fears being rendered powerless (magically or personally).

Morals: None at all. Morrigan learned morality from her abomination mother in the marshes where she grew up.

And notes for Flemeth encounter (After Morrigan sends you there)

Flemeth: "And so you return." (as she knew you would)
Flemeth: "Lovely Morrigan has at last found someone willing to dance to her tune. Such enchanting music she plays, wouldn't you say?" (she knows that Morrigan has sent the player here to kill her, at some level she's impressed her daughter finally managed it)
PC: "We know your little secret, Flemeth."
Flemeth: "<desc>Laughs</desc> Which one, I wonder?" (a great big laugh, oh this is funny)
Flemeth: "What has Morrigan told you, hmm? What little plan has she hatched this time?" (she doesn't really want to know but she is intrigued)
PC: "She knows how you extend your unnatural lifespan."
Flemeth: "That she does. The question is, do you?" (she knows very well Morrigan has lied to the player)
Flemeth: "Ahhh, but it is an old, old story. One that Flemeth has heard before... and even told." (waving off the details as unimportant -- she knows Morrigan has betrayed her, and since she' s betrayed many others she doesn't really take it personally)
Flemeth: "Let us skip right to the ending, shall we? Do you slay the old wretch as Morrigan bids? Or does the tale take a different turn?" (a bit eager to cut to the chase, "old wretch" said with amusement as it's what Morrigan would call her -- basically she's saying "will you do what Morrigan tells you to or something else?")
PC: What do you propose?
Flemeth: "Morrigan wishes my grimoire? Take it as a trophy. Tell her I am slain." (as if this were nothing, "here take the thing that means nothing to me)
PC: I could do that.
Flemeth: "It's far easier this way, don't you think? The lies are always more fun." (enjoying it)
Flemeth: "The book is inside the hut, with notes and spells enough to make even Morrigan blush with delight." (as if the book is worthless and Morrigan is a fool to want it)
Flemeth: "You and I will not meet again. <emp>That</emp> I guarantee." (enigmatic, said with a wicked smile)

-----OR--------

PC: "Is it true you intend to take Morrigan's body?"
Flemeth: "<desc>Laughs</desc> Oh, I do like that." (she finds this to be very funny -- this is the story that Morrigan told? How cute! Obviously, she's also NOT answering the question)

#9
Eshaye

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old book wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

I think she is too, Old Book. But I think Morrigan's plan is to get her out of the way so she can have the baby and escape. What SHE plans for it...well that remains to be seen.
I saw toolset directions someone posted in anothr thread and Flemeth was amused that Morrigan had told the PC's what she did. She also could care less about the Grimoire.
Something else is going on we won't know till maybe DA2 that's for sure.
Immortals tend to have convoluted plots all circles within circles.

Flemeth is easily one of the most interesting NPCs in the game for me.


For me as well. I hate killing her. If it hadn't been for her, Maric would never have let the Wardens back into Ferelden, and your character wouldn't be alive. Sure, she had her own reasons, but that's a hell of a moral obligation. It feels very wrong to kill her just because she may be planning something evil down the line, more so if your character realizes that neither Morrigan nor Flemeth are being honest with him.

Of course, letting her live may mean dooming your friend / lover, and letting free a force of great potential evil in the future.


The PC isn't obligated to Femeth at all, all you know as the new warden is that she is seemingly threatening one of your companions. My PCs always become protective of Morrigan because they feel she needs a lot of compassion that she never had before. 

But I can see why you'd feel that way having read the books. ;P

#10
Lord Gremlin

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I thought it's pretty obvious that "demon" that possessed Flemeth is actually an untainted Old God. That's pretty obvious. She's an abomination, but abominations are mostly obsessed with mass murder and rape and overall pretty crazy. That's demons for you. And Flemeth is actually pretty sane and smart. And he turns into a dragon - which is essentially a normal, untainted physical form of an Old God.

Old God inside Flemeth wants to save his brethren from the taint, including the one which is DAO Archdemon. That's why Flemeth sends Morrigan with PC - she's a tool, meant to extract the soul of Old God and save him from taint when Grey Warden slays his tainted physical body.



Some questions still unanswered though. Original physical body of Old God who possesses Flemeth is obviously lost, just like Archdemon's body. It appears that even Old God can't keep human body alive for too long and this Lovecraftish story with daughters is true. Flemeth does it, and Morrigan's baby aka new reincarnation of another Old God will do the same... Or not?