341 réponses à ce sujet

[Seagloom]

No, it's not just you. I'm one of those "loonies" that prefers KotOR2 to the original. There are a few of us here, vastly outnumbered as we are. I'm not a blind Obsidian fangirl, but I enjoyed their games so far. I think NWN2 in particular gets a lot of unnecessary flak. Obsidian supported it far longer than they needed to and actually took fan input under consideration from the onset. I remember when a bunch of people were complaining that druids were virtually unchanged from NWN1. Obsidian stepped up to the plate and created nine new spells, one of each spell level, in its first NWN2 patch. They also incorporated mods such as Tony K's AI. NWN2 is very playable, but most people just remember the severe bugs plaguing its first months. It also amazes me when NWN1 is brought up in comparison despite that game being a bug ridden train wreck that had a long list of patches. Its stability didn't happen overnight.

In any case, everything I've read of Alpha Protocol so far tells me it's not buggy so much as some reviewers were expecting a dedicated FPS shooter. It isn't a shooter, it's an RPG in the vein of Deus Ex and Bloodlines. I don't think some of these reviewers are getting that when they criticize the shooting as being dated and simplistic. There is also way too big a deal being made over graphics and texture pop-ins... as if no other game has the latter. The only legitimate criticism I've read that also matches up with player commentary and videos is poor AI.

It's too bad Alpha Protocol will likely be a cult hit, as mentioned above.

Note to Lamiea: For future reference, discussion of piracy groups isn't a good idea here. You may want to avoid that altogether from here on. Since you at least removed names, I'll leave at that.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mai 2010 - 01:09 .

[Chaos-fusion]

I would probably like Obsidian alot more, but I seem to have lousy timing with playing their games. First, it was Kotor 2, and seeing as Kotor was the first RPG I played, and I'd spent faaar too many hours playing it, Kotor 2 just fell on it's face by the end. (But replaying it not so long ago, I enjoyed it more) With NWN2, the first time I actually got to the end of the game, was shortly after the latest patch had rendered the last boss un-fightable, since he/she/it just looped their dialogue without fighting. Heh.

I do like their games though. Mask of the Betrayer was great, and I didn't even hit any noticable bugs. I still want this game, so maybe I'll see how it looks afew months down the line. New Vegas is still something I'm watching too.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well Scott Sharkey of 1UP.com seems to have a dissenting review

From that review:

The three most common dialogue options (Professional, Aggressive, and Suave) pretty well encapsulate the emotional range of your usual covert operative. Well, except for Suave, which here comes off less like James Bond and more Leisure Suit Larry.

I find myself not suprised. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 30 mai 2010 - 01:24 .

[MerinTB]

Haven't read much of the thread but -

I've got it preordered. Heck, I'll probably do a game review of it even.

It's not my "genre" (modern day espionage/spy/military/terrorist crap) though it is my "genre" (cRPG) - but what tips it in my favor of expecting to like it is Obsidian, as opposed to say, Deus Ex, which I am certain people are right is an awesome game BUT there's nothing but glowing recommendations and it being something of an RPG to attract me as the subject matter (like Alpha Protocol) leave me cold.

[DarthCaine]

Even though I bash Bugsidian often I actually like AP (probably more than their previous games), though I'm too lazy to do a full review right now

But I will say this, BioWare could learn a thing or two about hard choices and consequences from games like AP and The Witcher

Lamiea wrote...

You do know that NWN 2 had less bugs at launch than NWN 1 did, right?

I didn't really remember encountering any bugs playing NWN1 without any patches.

At launch NWN2 didn't have that many bugs (only a few cutscenes repeating themselves and broken classes), however with MotB Bugsidian made NWN2's OC unplayable 'cos of several game stopping bugs

NWN2 is by far the buggiest game I've ever played

Modifié par DarthCaine, 30 mai 2010 - 04:23 .

[DarthCaine]

@ Seagloom
Since you haven't played the game, I'd suggest you try it before defending it and see that some reviewers aren't exaggerating (though most are harsh). I was pretty optimistic about it, but while it's overall good, there are lots of bad parts

A few notes:

• The combat isn't very good and not because it's stats based. ME1 did stats aiming great, AP does it terrible
• I only encountered one game breaking bug (though it's no problem if you saved earlier). The only other bugs I've encountered are stuff like enemies missing when I reload (making the game easier)
• Stealth is ok, but while guards have poor eyesight, they have super hearing. However don't put too much points into stealth as a lot of parts of the game require you to run and shoot
• I don't really care about graphics and animations, they seem fine to me (except when you die)
• Saving is checkpoint based which is really annoying especially when you're in the safehouse (if you want to save, you have to start a mission)
• Best part of the game: lots of consequences and hard choices
• If you thought Shepard's lines were bad, wait till you hear Michael's
• The game is linear, there's no hub places like the Citadel or Denerim, it's just mission, safehouse, mission, safehouse etc. and you talk to people only in cutscenes

Modifié par DarthCaine, 30 mai 2010 - 05:30 .

[Seagloom]

Have you played Temple of Elemental Evil? If you thought Neverwinter Nights 2 was buggy, never try that game no matter how cheap you see it for.

You're right, I should play Alpha Protocol first, but some of the reviews have been needlessly brutal. Out of all the low scoring reviews I read, only two came across as objective. This isn't limited to Alpha Protocol though. I rarely take game review sites at face value. I'm not usually this vocal about a specific game's treatment is all.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mai 2010 - 06:21 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Having played it constantly since I got it, I can say that for me it is a good game. The combat isn't worse than ME1, and it incorporates a stealth system that I like, and which works once you get enough points into it, disagree competely with DarthCaine on this matter, you can get stealth up for most of the game and still have plenty of points for the few run and gun parts (I've managed to take out bosses with stealth). Is it perfect? Hell no, but the dialogue and story is great in my mind, and while there are clearly bugs with it they are no worse than most other games from companies like EA that don't get bashed for them despite having severe gamebreaking bugs in many of their games.



The conversations occur in cutscenes and there's no going back to people to restart conversations to take back something you say, but they also have more meaning and impact I feel. Instead of going round in circles like in DA:O the conversations flow alot better I think. The hubs are the safehouses, currently I have three safehouses from which different selection of missions are available and you can switch between them easily (I got to a point in the Moscow missions where I found I couldn't beat the main boss, so went over to Taiwan and did some missions there, with the intention of just gaining a few levels but also found out that befriending a guy there got new options opened up for the mission in Moscow that made it a hell of a lot easier!).



Some of the reviewers have complained about how you have to run around the safehouse to do your inventory and such like, I don't see how this is any different from the Normandy in ME1 and 2. The clearing house has ALL the merchants you have unlocked with all the bonuses from them liking you applied, which I find alot better than having to travel over to the one merchant that sells the item you want and then having to travel over to the merchant that sells the other item, and fits in with the high tech setting.



@DarthCaine, I don't know what its like on the 360, but on the PC if you do a manual save in the safehouse then it saves all the changes you have made since entering it, such as buying items, setting up your inventory, etc. The missions unfortunately still only saves it as it was at the last checkpoint, I think the idea was to encourage the player to stick with the wrong choices they make so that they see how it plays out but it only succeeds in reducing the enjoyment factor.

[wolfsite]

Seagloom wrote...

Have you played Temple of Elemental Evil? If you thought Neverwinter Nights 2 was buggy, never try that game no matter how cheap you see it for.

I picked up that game a while back, never did manage to get it to run properly.  Probably have it collecting dust in a corner somewhere.

[Seagloom]

I weep for you, wolfsite. I can't deny that KotOR2 was a buggy, unfinished game or that NWN2 had its trials during that first year; but if anyone wants a true example of a disastrous game they should play ToEE without Co8's mods. The state it was launched in was atrocious.

[wolfsite]

Seagloom wrote...

I weep for you, wolfsite. I can't deny that KotOR2 was a buggy, unfinished game or that NWN2 had its trials during that first year; but if anyone wants a true example of a disastrous game they should play ToEE without Co8's mods. The state it was launched in was atrocious.

I got it out of an "All sales final" Bargain bin so I didn't lose out really.  I'm actually playing KOTOR2 right now just FYI

[FlintlockJazz]

Seagloom wrote...

Have you played Temple of Elemental Evil? If you thought Neverwinter Nights 2 was buggy, never try that game no matter how cheap you see it for.

You're right, I should play Alpha Protocol first, but some of the reviews I've been reading have been needlessly brutal. Out of all the low scoring reviews I've seen, only two came across as objective. This isn't limited to Alpha Protocol though. I rarely take game reviews at face value. This is just the first time I've been vocal about a specific game.

As someone who has played the game it sometimes seems like some of these reviewers were playing a very different game to the one I was playing.  Maybe they mistook the game genre and got the shooter guy to review it instead of the RPG guy?  Did Sega forget to send them their obligatory bribe?  Was the wrong build of the game sent?  I dunno, but the 'glee' some of these reviewers seem to take in ripping into it makes me wonder, especially when they don't attack other games with the same problems for it. 

There are problems with the game no doubt, many things could have been done alot better, the AI especially (though I think some of the AI problems is that the stats is what determines whether they see you and such, though it is very poor and buggy), but is it truly deserving of the 2 from bit-tech?  I would disagree, but maybe I've just become a AP fanboy overnight.

[MerinTB]

Seagloom wrote...

Have you played Temple of Elemental Evil? If you thought Neverwinter Nights 2 was buggy, never try that game no matter how cheap you see it for.

You think ToEE was buggy, did you ever play Pool or Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor.

That game was UNPLAYABLE.  I could play ToEE, buggy as it was, but PoR: RoMD was wretched.

[Elvis_Mazur]

I'm watching a few videos and I have to say that it looks a good game. I don't care if the graphics are bad or it don't have an awesome gameplay. Since Borderlands (I'm still playing it) I want to see a good plot, and it seems that Alpha Protocol has one.


Edit: Also, I want to make choices.

Modifié par PetrySilva, 30 mai 2010 - 07:08 .

[Seagloom]

@wolfsite - I wasn't as fortunate. Me being the D&D nerd I am, I bought it at release for full price.

@Merin - Actually, I *did* play Ruins of Myth Drannor. I'd forgotten about it. You're right, it was unplayable. That they rigged the dice against the player did not help matters either. Not many games can boast a bug that formats your harddrive when you uninstall it. XD Ruins of Myth Drannor is unique in that's one of two games I destroyed outright. I snapped the disc in half and never looked back. ToEE I kept and I can't deny that means something. Touché Merin, touché.

@FlintlockJazz - That's what I was clumsily trying to get at it. Granted, I haven't played the game so DarthCaine has a point that I can't really defend specifics like say, you can. Some of the complaints have been vitriolic or suggestive that yes, the reviewer was expecting a shooter and not an RPG. I'm not saying the game has no problems because it clearly does. It's just hard to take some of those criticisms seriously. Really, I shouldn't be surprised. Hyperbolic writing is de rigueur for most reviewers when they dislike a game.

Modifié par Seagloom, 30 mai 2010 - 07:13 .

[Jalem001]

I would probably like Obsidian alot more, but I seem to have lousy
timing with playing their games. First, it was Kotor 2, and seeing as
Kotor was the first RPG I played, and I'd spent faaar too many hours
playing it, Kotor 2 just fell on it's face by the end. (But replaying it
not so long ago, I enjoyed it more)

Maybe I'm just making things up, but this is a habit I'm noticing, and it's true for me.  I didn't enjoy KoTOR 2 after playing KoTOR, but going back and playing it later I found it much more enjoyable.  Perhaps being able to take it for what it is and not comparing it so much to the awesome that was/is KoTOR.

Obsidian has alot of good ideas, they just...mess up other things.  A game getting such mediocre reviews shouldn't interest me as much as it does, but I can't wait to rent this game.

Rent being the key word there I suppose.  It's too short for a buy, and I'm sure I'll enjoy the hell out of it just renting.

[MerinTB]

PoR:RoMD did give me a decent soundtrack and a cool dice bag, and I sold the rest to EB Games.

Only one of two computer games I ever bought then disliked so much I sold it - the other being Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel.

Modifié par MerinTB, 30 mai 2010 - 07:48 .

[Seagloom]

I didn't get a soundtrack or dice bag with mine. I think it was the regular edition. It wasn't the smartest move on my part. I hadn't felt that cheated by a game before then. Plus, I was several years younger and had little concept of the importance of money. Live an' learn, as they say.

[MerinTB]

From the videos I watched, all the stuff I read from the site, and the sense I get that Sega let Obsidian finish the game (as opposed to, say, Lucasarts not letting KotOR2 be finished) I think Alpha Protocol will be very enjoyable for me.

I'm hopeful it will vault my expectations, be a big surprise, and that it'll become a new favorite of mine.

But I'm fully prepared for it to be like Jade Empire or Arcanum to me - good, but just barely memorable.

[Noilly Prat]

For what it's worth, I also like KOTOR II more than the original in many respects.  However, upon reflection I can't help but to feel that this is more because the story and characters resonated more with me personally than because it is really a great game.

I should say right now that I haven't played KOTOR II in... well, pretty much since it came out, while I have recently replayed the first, so it's a little tough to compare them.  But replaying KOTOR, I was struck by how polished the overall narrative is, and how generally well developed the characters were, including the ones that I didn't even really care for all that much.  KOTOR II, by contrast, I remember as having a very sloppy narrative, although it was also one which I thought took more risks and had more moral depth than KOTOR's.  The first game also conveyed a better sense of purpose than KOTOR II, at several points in which I really wasn't sure why I was doing what I was doing.  At best, this made me feel that my PC's motivations were complex and unclear, but at worst it made me feel that he really had no motivations at all.  And, as much as certain characters (particularly Kreia, Atton, Visas, and the Handmaiden) still stand out in my memory, I don't recall any of them being very well-developed, and the influence system, while interesting, was partially at fault here I think.  In other words, I love the game because it somehow managed to speak more to me on a personal level than the original did, but I can't help but to feel like Obsidian only had a vague plan for the overall plot, even if they had been allowed to finish it properly.

I won't say much about NWN 2 except that I found the story to be almost amazingly dull and uninteresting, and that I didn't find a single one of the characters to be even remotely likeable, memorable, or interesting.  I wouldn't have bothered continuing through the game if I weren't such a hopeless lover of BioWare-style RPGing.

All things considered, I want to give Alpha Protocol the benefit of the doubt, and I definitely won't make any judgements until I've played it.  But when a game is criticized and unfavorably compared with competing games in a leaked memo shortly before release, misses its presumed release date without any official word, delayed half a year for no apparent reason, and then released to almost universally disappointing reviews and (apparently) anonymously called a failure that should have been cancelled by one of its own developers... well, none of that bodes well.

(If that dev comment is legitimate, as seems likely, it is also entirely possible he is being so hard on it because it is difficult to see something that you've put a lot of work into come out with such major problems due to mismanagement and things like that.)

Awakening wasn't very polished either, but most reviews hardly mentioned the various bugs, which suggests to me that Alpha Protocol has some serious issues.  As I said before, I'm still planning to play it, and hoping that I will like it, but I'm no longer hoping for a really great game.

[Tamahome560]

I just finished my first playthrough ...



I have to say I love this game but also hate it. Well actualy I hate Obsidian for not being able to make Alpha Protocol reach its true potential, It still a good try at their first Third-person shooter but this game could've been as good as Mass Effect if they polished it and it would've reached ME2's epic level if it was executed better.



Good points:

+ Awsome story and replay value( choices really matter in this game! It can branch out so much it's hard to get your head around). Ending is soo amazing the tension is incredible but maybe a little to overwhelming. I need to play it a few more times to figure everything out.

+ Characters (Mina )

+ Dialogue

+ Atmosphere

+ Email's (although I wish they've expanded on them)

+ Inteligence gathering

+ Mini games ( even though they're hard ... took me 20 minutes to figure out how to hack sucessfully lol)

+ Multiple ways in which you can approach the missions

+ Gadgets and Upgrades

+ Martial Arts and stealth takedowns



Now for the negatives:

- Game feels very clunky

- Slowdowns when using clearinghouse

- Many unrealistic things (padlock that triggers an electronical alarm wtf! Some enemies can survive multiple headshoots, overpowered bosses, skill that allows invisibility, glowing effects when using buffs)

- Animations (apart from martial arts and stealth takedowns)

- Shooter mechanics

- Cover system

- Stealth mechanics

- Camera control

- Controls durning mini-games

- Checpoint save system ( WTF! Are we back in 90's?)

- Disappearing bodies in a game with stealth ...

- General lack of polish and many bugs



I'd give it 7.5/10

I'd give Mass Effect 8.5/10

I'd give Mass Effect 2 9.5/10

I'd give Dragon Age:Origins 8/10



The joy of living as an Agent and uncovering a massive conspiracy was enough to get me hooked. The story by itself is worth it! The story and the whole idea of espionage is what makes the game amazing but the way it is executed is very poor.



If executed better it could've ended up being a contender for 2010 best rpg against ME2 and one of the best rpg's in history,



That was my short summary review

[Khayness]

Seems the story and the atmosphere sells this game just as any other Obsidian product.

I got lots of games to play this summer, but I'll pick this up around autumn for sure.

[Seagloom]

Thanks for the review, Tamahome. Those unrealistic things you point out don't faze me much. Most of them are meant to make a player go oooh than be taken as a visual everyone in the gameworld sees. The invisibility part, I'd have to read the description for. I saw that in videos and it was a little odd. Can you elaborate on "many bugs?" I keep reading this but I wish people would get more specific about the nature of these bugs. >.< In any event, thanks for taking the time to write that.

[Busomjack]

I'm actually really damn excited about this game. Direct2drive better have this game ready for download at 1 AM tomorrow sharp!

[Tamahome560]

Shadow Operative makes you invisible for short period of time but enemies can hear you ( easliy overcome with silent runing skill) at higest level you can run while using it! ( but not sprint) and it lasts longer.



The bugs:

Got stuck in a wall a few times

In the end mission I destroyed a turret but alarm still went off when I walked passed its visual range ( 100% it's a bug because when I threw an EMP where the turret was the alarm did not go off when I went into its visual range off )

Numerous visual glitches

When changing the active skill by opening the radial menue an invisible wall appears in front of you so you can't walk forward for a while (damnn got me killed so many times)

I've also fallen of places that I should not be able to fall lol

Inventory bugs (sometimes you can just press something twice but sometimes it does not work and you have to press select button or equip button)



I know there is more but I can't seem to remember now xD Anyway the bugs are not game breaking and I've seen worse but this department still needs a bit of work. As I said the story is amazing and that's whats kept me playing the game for the whole weekend. I've clocked about 30 hours on it since Friday doing every mission and exploring almost every single bit of the map



I got a nice ending but I think I could've done better if I made better choices to improve my rep with some people ( and annoy certain someone so I can put a bullet through his head) but I don't think you can get a saved the world, no sacrafices, peace and happily ever after ending.

[Seagloom]

Ok, the falling and turret glicthes sound like major ones. The inventory one is iffy too. The rest don't seem that important to me. Still, that explains where the unfinished comments are coming from. Falling through surfaces, if that's what you meant, is pretty bad for a finished product.



Does Shadow Operative actually say it makes you invisible in the description? The reason I ask is because the invisibility may be an abstraction to represent insane sneaking glass not otherwise possible with the engine. Sort of like how the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights series made your stealthy character invisible because the game didn't support elaborate terrain cover. It could just be meant as visual cue so the player knows they're being extra sneaky when its active. Just a thought. It could be wrong. Either way it won't stop me from playing this game eventually.



Your enthusiasm makes me feel exicited to play through the story. Thanks again for the updates.