99 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

NICKjnp wrote...
Heavy energy drain can boost your barrier up to 705 for a short amount of time (with maxed damage protection).  That and it does 200 damage to enemy shields.

STOP TEMPTING ME TO USE ENERGY DRAIN!

[NICKjnp]

Pacifien wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...
Heavy energy drain can boost your barrier up to 705 for a short amount of time (with maxed damage protection).  That and it does 200 damage to enemy shields.

STOP TEMPTING ME TO USE ENERGY DRAIN!

Never... that power decimates Geth (It drains their shields and their health).

Modifié par NICKjnp, 08 juin 2010 - 05:50 .

[RGFrog]

really? because i need something other than disruptor ammo that doesn't seem to do much...

[Alamar2078]

Engrs don't have to worry about barriers too much ... that's what SMGs & teammates are for even if you don't want to take Reave or Warp Ammo on Shep.

[Simbacca]

RGFrog wrote...

really? because i need something other than disruptor ammo that doesn't seem to do much...

Are you kidding?  During my Insanity Vanguard playthrough, I brought Zaeed along one Tali's Recruitment with Squad Disruptor Ammo and absolutely shredded the Geth.


Back to Engineers, I don't know why they are unpopular but my next ME2 playthrough, as soon as I finish my renegade runthrough of ME1, will be an Engineer.  I was toying with the idea of going pure tech, taking Neural Shock as a bonus power, but that doesn't really add anything to the class other than a wasted cooldown.  Anything I could Neural Shock I could just as easily freeze with Cryo Blast, kill with Incinerate or Overload, or AI Hack.  Now I'm toying with the idea of going with with AP Ammo or Energy Drain.  Even if I took AP Ammo though, I would never max it out as I due plan on utilizing Cryo Blast to the fullest.  I also don't mind bring one of the numerous squadmates along that have an ammo power.  Energy Drain feels redundant since Engineers already have Overload, but it does fill shields as well.  I'll mostly be a pure Engineer anyway for most missions so the bonus power really doesn't matter I suppose.  I definitely will not be taking a biotic power.

Modifié par Simbacca, 08 juin 2010 - 06:26 .

[SAE100]

An Engineer don´t need any Bonuspower, but I chose the Geth-Shields with one point as "Oh-Sh**-Button" for (very) dangerous situations. I think I used it about 2 or 3 times.

[SpectreSeven]

Engineer was pretty good, actually. Adept was extremely underpowered in ME2

[StodgyFrost98]

Engineers only have the toolset to take on synthetic enemies like mechs or the geth. Other than that they aren't really well equipped to take anything other than that.

[Astranagant]

Shooting? Boring? The reason I play Soldier and Infiltrator almost exclusively is because it's boring to hit some menu button instead of using those guns I'm hauling around.

Also no Dispenser, Sentry Gun or Teleporter makes Engineer kind of useless.

Modifié par Astranagant, 08 juin 2010 - 10:56 .

[lazorexplosion]

Foolsfolly wrote...

After all this discussion around the forums about Engineers I've finally decided to play one.

I imported a 2 year old Engineer from ME1 for the task, thought it was appropriate.

I'm currently level 9 and I have Jack and Garrus left to recruit then I'm on Horizon. So far, on Hardcore, playing Engineer hasn't been the chore I thought it would be. The weapon selection sucks, sure, but the powers are nice. Incinerate and Overload are rather nice, there's never a situation where you're stuck unable to strip defenses. However, Combat Drone is leaving me wanting more.

Right now it's one saving grace is that it distracts the enemy for about 1-2 seconds and it takes almost that amount of time to cooldown to use something else (or combat drone again). It doesn't strike me as terribly useful and I only ever use it when I'm fighting YMIR or about to die.

So using Incinerate and Overload and hanging back behind cover got me thinking...the Engineer is merely a squishier Sentinel where the Armor Stripping power can't detonate Pull'd targets. And who could argue that Tech Armor is worse than Combat Drone? No one! It's a magnificent power!

So I am definitely enjoying this play with a class I've never done before. The Engineer is better than the Adept which I have played and also enjoyed. But I think the biggest reason why the Engineer is under-loved is because it's a weaker Sentinel and the Sentinel allows for a more combat oriented play style if the player prefers to wade into the enemy once and a while. Making it more versatile along with having the defense stripping and power throwing of the Engineer.

Fun class though. No idea why I put off playing this until now. Really like the 25% research discount too.

I think everyone should argue that Tech Armor is worse than Combat Drone! Tech armor has a long recharge time and tends to be lost almost immediately on insanity and as soon as it's lost you're mostly better off using powers than recasting it because of the long cooldown. Drone has a very short cooldown, CC's even shielded targets by distracting them, can distract otherwise impossible to CC targets like scions or YMIR mechs and explodes for 100 damage in a 6m radius, which compares very favourably to most damage powers that have twice the damage but also twice the cooldown and half that radius. Combat Drone is much, much better than tech armor.

[lazorexplosion]

StodgyFrost98 wrote...

Engineers only have the toolset to take on synthetic enemies like mechs or the geth. Other than that they aren't really well equipped to take anything other than that.

What? No, just no. Have you even played one? This is stupid.

[lazorexplosion]

Astranagant wrote...

Shooting? Boring? The reason I play Soldier and Infiltrator almost exclusively is because it's boring to hit some menu button instead of using those guns I'm hauling around.

Also no Dispenser, Sentry Gun or Teleporter makes Engineer kind of useless.

Jesus. Well, don't use powers instead of guns. How about you use guns and powers, , like every class other than soldiers are meant to. Or is that too complicated for you?

[Foolsfolly]

Pacifien wrote...

I'm playing an Adept right now who makes liberal use of the Arc Projector. Shields are no problem at all. Some people play an Adept with Energy Drain as well.
There really is no way to counter barriers if you're playing a nonbiotic class who is unwilling to pick a biotic bonus power. I suppose Soldiers do have Concussive Shot, but from what I've seen of the usual Soldier Builds, people tend to ignore Concussive Shot for other things because it's not the instant shot that Garrus, Grunt, and Zaeed can use.
Can't really comment on Sentinel vs. Engineer. I had more fun as an Engineer.

It's not that Concussive Shot isn't an instant hit that bothers soldier players, it's that it doesn't arc like every other power in the game. So you can't hit people behind cover. Add to the fact that a lot of squadmates have Concussive Shot, Warp, or Reave and you find that it's better to spend your few talent points into something else.

v1K0 wrote...

Engineer was pretty good, actually. Adept
was extremely underpowered in ME2

To my experience and to my taste the Adept is the worst class in ME2. I'm enjoying this run with an Engineer. It's not all powerful and it's a touch boring (you get behind cover and spam cast powers until everything's dead) but it's been fun.

The Adept....I have no idea what you could do to make that a more appealing class. Perhaps it's just not for me.

lazorexplosion wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

After
all this discussion around the forums about Engineers I've finally
decided to play one.

I imported a 2 year old Engineer from ME1
for the task, thought it was appropriate.

I'm currently level 9
and I have Jack and Garrus left to recruit then I'm on Horizon. So far,
on Hardcore, playing Engineer hasn't been the chore I thought it would
be. The weapon selection sucks, sure, but the powers are nice.
Incinerate and Overload are rather nice, there's never a situation where
you're stuck unable to strip defenses. However, Combat Drone is leaving
me wanting more.

Right now it's one saving grace is that it
distracts the enemy for about 1-2 seconds and it takes almost that
amount of time to cooldown to use something else (or combat drone
again). It doesn't strike me as terribly useful and I only ever use it
when I'm fighting YMIR or about to die.

So using Incinerate and
Overload and hanging back behind cover got me thinking...the Engineer is
merely a squishier Sentinel where the Armor Stripping power can't
detonate Pull'd targets. And who could argue that Tech Armor is worse
than Combat Drone? No one! It's a magnificent power!

So I am
definitely enjoying this play with a class I've never done before. The
Engineer is better than the Adept which I have played and also enjoyed.
But I think the biggest reason why the Engineer is under-loved is
because it's a weaker Sentinel and the Sentinel allows for a more combat
oriented play style if the player prefers to wade into the enemy once
and a while. Making it more versatile along with having the defense
stripping and power throwing of the Engineer.

Fun class though.
No idea why I put off playing this until now. Really like the 25%
research discount too.

I think everyone should argue that
Tech Armor is worse than Combat Drone! Tech armor has a long recharge
time and tends to be lost almost immediately on insanity and as soon as
it's lost you're mostly better off using powers than recasting it
because of the long cooldown. Drone has a very short cooldown, CC's even
shielded targets by distracting them, can distract otherwise impossible
to CC targets like scions or YMIR mechs and explodes for 100 damage in a
6m radius, which compares very favourably to most damage powers that
have twice the damage but also twice the cooldown and half that radius.
Combat Drone is much, much better than tech armor.

Gotta disagree there. Currently have a level 3 Combat Drone and while it's surviving better now it's still only moderately useful and only when I need to escape or fighting a biggie like a YMIR. (Although it is a lifesaver against YMIR).

Tech Armor on Insanity does drain quickly which is why I'd never dream of running and gunning with a Sentinel on Insanity. I'm sure you could do it but it'd be hard to not get frustrated at.

Tech Armor has no duration, it's there until it's gone. And with that reduncy shield upgrade it can stay along half as long. It's a great extra layer of protection AND it adds to power damage. You're still a caster just like the Engineer when you play a Sentinel on Insanity but it hurts less to pop up from behind cover and use Overload.

And if they pop the Tech Armor it stuns everything around them (well one evolution does anyway). It's a great power and loads more useful than Combat Drone. Plus its cooldown isn't that bad. It's 12 seconds which can be devestating but it can be lowered with the upgrade and that ugly helmet from the Equalizer pack.

Also your shields, depending on your armor, either double or triple while using Tech Armor and regen faster. It's the ultimate defensive power.

I could also argue that Neural Shock is better than Combat Drone since it 1-shots Husks and has about the same cooldown as, reduces the enemy's accuracy, and stuns them for longer than a combat drone could keep them busy. I could also argue that Cyroblast is better at this as well.

Combat Drone just feels very middle of the road to me. It's easily spammed due to its short cool down rate which makes it beyond easy to play but it's not as useful as other powers that do much the same thing. Plus no matter what you always get two characters who already have the power.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Ive done infiltrator (love cloak), working on Sentinal (really like this class), Tried soldier but got bored it was a yawnfest of easy TBH



Will try Adept, Engineer, and Vanguard next in that order

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

lazorexplosion wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The three "gun-oriented" classes are the most popular because in ME 2 the powers are gimped in comparison to weapons/ammo. As difficulty level rises the "powers-oriented" classes play more like gimped soldiers, having to shoot their weapons more instead of relying on their powers.

All classes can and should shoot stuff. That's a feature, not a bug. Engineers that combine shooting with CC/damage powers will kick arse at a rate of knots, and that's the way it's meant to be. The fact that you have the silly idea that 'caster' classes shouldn't have to shoot doesn't make them gimped, you're doing it wrong. Engineers have guns and powers for a reason.

Sorry, but some classes are "gun" classes. Their passives help them shoot better in some way.  The "gun" classes play the same style regardless of difficulty level. The "power" classes do not.

It is silly to say that a biotic mater (adept) should be shooting a lot rather than using powers. And like I said, I've done several insanity playthroughs with the adept.. Only one with an engineer.

Anyways, i was just answering the question about why engineers are not so popular. If you look at the polls the three most popular classes are the "gun" classes. There is a reason for that, which I stated.

[lazorexplosion]

Foolsfolly wrote...
Gotta disagree there. Currently have a level 3 Combat Drone and while it's surviving better now it's still only moderately useful and only when I need to escape or fighting a biggie like a YMIR. (Although it is a lifesaver against YMIR).

Tech Armor on Insanity does drain quickly which is why I'd never dream of running and gunning with a Sentinel on Insanity. I'm sure you could do it but it'd be hard to not get frustrated at.

Tech Armor has no duration, it's there until it's gone. And with that reduncy shield upgrade it can stay along half as long. It's a great extra layer of protection AND it adds to power damage. You're still a caster just like the Engineer when you play a Sentinel on Insanity but it hurts less to pop up from behind cover and use Overload.

And if they pop the Tech Armor it stuns everything around them (well one evolution does anyway). It's a great power and loads more useful than Combat Drone. Plus its cooldown isn't that bad. It's 12 seconds which can be devestating but it can be lowered with the upgrade and that ugly helmet from the Equalizer pack.

Also your shields, depending on your armor, either double or triple while using Tech Armor and regen faster. It's the ultimate defensive power.

I could also argue that Neural Shock is better than Combat Drone since it 1-shots Husks and has about the same cooldown as, reduces the enemy's accuracy, and stuns them for longer than a combat drone could keep them busy. I could also argue that Cyroblast is better at this as well.

Combat Drone just feels very middle of the road to me. It's easily spammed due to its short cool down rate which makes it beyond easy to play but it's not as useful as other powers that do much the same thing. Plus no matter what you always get two characters who already have the power.

My responses: you're talking like you're counting both the power damage increase AND the redundancy when those are mutually exclusive.  Twelve seconds is a horribly long recharge. I always found the tech armor went down far too quickly, then if I refreshed it in battle I'd be losing effectiveness because I could have used 2 powers in the same period of time instead of being left with nothing to do other than shoot for that period of time. Of course, having nothing other to do than shoot means shooting more at unCC'd enemies which meant that the tech armor was usually lost before it's own cooldown was up! I ended up only using after every battle so I'd have it at the start of the next one which means it was only ever actually useful for a fraction of each battle. The pulse is relatively useless with an uncomfortably short range, low damage for the large cooldown and it doesn't knock over shielded enemies.

If you think neural shock is better than combat drone you're out of your mind because neural shock only works on organics, only works on unshielded enemies and doesn't do any damage. Similarly with cryoblast, it only works on unshielded enemies, does no damage and has a 50% longer cooldown. You ain't gonna be cryoblasting no VMIR mechs or scions or suchforth. If you want to kill husks, well that's when you use incinerate or cryoblast. Combat drone is vastly more useful than either of them for the ability to distract shielded targets, let alone the fact that explosive drone also adds useful amounts of damage (100 for a 3s cooldwn compared to ~200 for a 6s cooldown for most damage powers). If you're only using it occasionally you're doing it wrong because the short cooldown lets you throw it into every battle with practically no downside, and immediately distracting the most dangerous enemy is always useful, whether it's a big mech or a boss or a krogan or a guy with a rocket launcher or even just some guy with a gun, it's always incredibly useful with practically no downside. And no, an ally with drone is nowhere near being as good. The ally version is crap, a 30s cooldown rather than a 3s cooldown means it stops them from using other abilities for an age and the drone doesn't outlast the cooldown. It is literally more than 10 times worse, so if you even think the allies version is mediocre then the only consitant conclusion is that the engineer's drone is absolutely excellent.

Modifié par lazorexplosion, 09 juin 2010 - 06:46 .

[lazorexplosion]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

lazorexplosion wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

The three "gun-oriented" classes are the most popular because in ME 2 the powers are gimped in comparison to weapons/ammo. As difficulty level rises the "powers-oriented" classes play more like gimped soldiers, having to shoot their weapons more instead of relying on their powers.

All classes can and should shoot stuff. That's a feature, not a bug. Engineers that combine shooting with CC/damage powers will kick arse at a rate of knots, and that's the way it's meant to be. The fact that you have the silly idea that 'caster' classes shouldn't have to shoot doesn't make them gimped, you're doing it wrong. Engineers have guns and powers for a reason.

Sorry, but some classes are "gun" classes. Their passives help them shoot better in some way.  The "gun" classes play the same style regardless of difficulty level. The "power" classes do not.

It is silly to say that a biotic mater (adept) should be shooting a lot rather than using powers. And like I said, I've done several insanity playthroughs with the adept.. Only one with an engineer.

Anyways, i was just answering the question about why engineers are not so popular. If you look at the polls the three most popular classes are the "gun" classes. There is a reason for that, which I stated.

Rather? There's no rather here. Using powers takes like half a second every three seconds, and if you're twiddiling your thumbs for all the rest of that time you're doing it wrong. You're never meant to be shooting rather than using powers. You do both. Which is why people who think caster classes are "gimped" because they have to shoot stuff are completely missing the point of the caster classes.

Modifié par lazorexplosion, 09 juin 2010 - 06:14 .

[Crunchyinmilk]

I didn't find button pressing away enemy defences all that fun. The effects for the engineer powers aren't nearly as pleasing as tossing people around like rag dolls, slowing down time or charging like a tron cycle across the map.



They're not weaker or less able, just less interesting to me. I don't get much fun from the Sentinel class either, having energiser battery powered shields is effective, but not exactly exciting.

[jaff00]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Gotta disagree there. Currently have a level 3 Combat Drone and while it's surviving better now it's still only moderately useful and only when I need to escape or fighting a biggie like a YMIR. (Although it is a lifesaver against YMIR).

Tech Armor on Insanity does drain quickly which is why I'd never dream of running and gunning with a Sentinel on Insanity. I'm sure you could do it but it'd be hard to not get frustrated at.

Tech Armor has no duration, it's there until it's gone. And with that reduncy shield upgrade it can stay along half as long. It's a great extra layer of protection AND it adds to power damage. You're still a caster just like the Engineer when you play a Sentinel on Insanity but it hurts less to pop up from behind cover and use Overload.

And if they pop the Tech Armor it stuns everything around them (well one evolution does anyway). It's a great power and loads more useful than Combat Drone. Plus its cooldown isn't that bad. It's 12 seconds which can be devestating but it can be lowered with the upgrade and that ugly helmet from the Equalizer pack.

Also your shields, depending on your armor, either double or triple while using Tech Armor and regen faster. It's the ultimate defensive power.

I could also argue that Neural Shock is better than Combat Drone since it 1-shots Husks and has about the same cooldown as, reduces the enemy's accuracy, and stuns them for longer than a combat drone could keep them busy. I could also argue that Cyroblast is better at this as well.

Combat Drone just feels very middle of the road to me. It's easily spammed due to its short cool down rate which makes it beyond easy to play but it's not as useful as other powers that do much the same thing. Plus no matter what you always get two characters who already have the power.

The lolpatrol thinks you're hilarious.

[dou_]

Imagine two engineers dueling. Not really a flashy showdown. If you have Tali and Legion in your squad, you can just let them all sit in a cover and teach your dog to press LB and go have some snacks for yourself. Still, I like playing engineer the most.

[lazuli]

Engineers are powerful and more than viable on Insanity with all of the defensive utility combat drones provide, even if they only last several seconds. I just didn't find engineers very enjoyable.



I think there are certain kinds of players that enjoy the pet-focused characters in RPG's. These players might enjoy summoning-focused Necromancers in Diablo 2, a beast master Ranger in Guild Wars, or the Hunter (?) in World of Warcraft. The engineer is the closest thing Mass Effect has to a pet class.



Also, and this is certainly subjective, engineers don't seem that heroic in terms of roleplaying. My first thought of Commander Shepard is not that he's some super genius military mechanic.

[Meshakhad2]

Lack of either good weapons or a reliable alternative to weapons.

[Id of Ith]

Tech Armor definitely doesn't "go away instantly" on Insanity, especially when you start stacking the upgrades. Fully upgraded you can get the cooldown of it down to 5.4 seconds for a full shield recharge, damage, and a stupidly large AoE knockdown. Even when it does go down it can restore another 50% of your shields. Around the time you get your first tech cooldown upgrade, it's extremely rare that your Tech Armor goes down before the cooldown is well over with.



Mind you, I also think Combat Drone is a great power, but I wouldn't say it is "better" than Tech Armor because they don't have much overlap. Both powers are extremely powerful and can trivialize parts of the game that can be a bit more difficult for other classes.

[Foolsfolly]

lazuli wrote...

Engineers are powerful and more than viable on Insanity with all of the defensive utility combat drones provide, even if they only last several seconds. I just didn't find engineers very enjoyable.

I think there are certain kinds of players that enjoy the pet-focused characters in RPG's. These players might enjoy summoning-focused Necromancers in Diablo 2, a beast master Ranger in Guild Wars, or the Hunter (?) in World of Warcraft. The engineer is the closest thing Mass Effect has to a pet class.

Also, and this is certainly subjective, engineers don't seem that heroic in terms of roleplaying. My first thought of Commander Shepard is not that he's some super genius military mechanic.

I think that's a part of it. Got level 4 exploding Combat Drone. The thing's really shining now. It's quick, dies quickly, stuns, and there it is again to rinse and repeat.

And it's reeealllly over powered. There's no need to use anything else. You just spam SMG and spam Combat Drone. Defense stripping is still semi-required but not as much as it used to be.

It's actually boring easy. And I can't wait to get to the Collector Ship to pick up the Vindicator and headshot the stunned and distracted enemies. That'll make every mission beyond easy. Throw in Warp Ammo or Armor Piercing Ammo and I can easily go through Insanity.

I finally understand this character's appeal.

But it's still not something I'd replay often. I find Infiltrator, Vanguard, Sentry, and Soldier to be funner classes to play. The Engineer's completely supportive centric with its defense stripping, low weapons damage, and the like.

And yes, the roleplaying is odd. It's weird when I had a team of Grunt and Zaeed with me and thought, "These two think I'm such a wuss."

[lazuli]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I think that's a part of it. Got level 4 exploding Combat Drone. The thing's really shining now. It's quick, dies quickly, stuns, and there it is again to rinse and repeat.

And it's reeealllly over powered. There's no need to use anything else. You just spam SMG and spam Combat Drone. Defense stripping is still semi-required but not as much as it used to be.

It's actually boring easy. And I can't wait to get to the Collector Ship to pick up the Vindicator and headshot the stunned and distracted enemies. That'll make every mission beyond easy. Throw in Warp Ammo or Armor Piercing Ammo and I can easily go through Insanity.

Exploding drone's damage is fairly negligible on Insanity.  You can still spam it, but be prepared for the battles to take eons.