752 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

Nightwriter wrote...
What's this ambassador thing I keep hearing about?

I think Shandepared said it was explained in Mass Effect Revelation.  Ihaven't read it myself.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...
I was not asking for where it says that the geth kill anyone who
ventures into their territory, though. I was asking where it says that
when the quarians tried to wipe them out they only knew a few models
were sentient.

In conjunction with the game and in-game codex, the Quarian entry in the Mass Effect wiki states that it was only one model who sparked fear.

The entire game has consistently played out like the quarians intended to completely wipe them out. From Mass Effect Wiki:

"When the geth became sentient and began to question their masters, the
quarians attempted to exterminate them."

Exterminate. That's a pretty clear word, Collider. Another entry uses the word destroy. You tell me.

And the Geth entry uses shut down.

Alarmed at this, the quarians decided it would be best to shut down all geth before they conceived of revolt.

See the above Wiki quote. They did become sentient.

I'm not disputing that. My point was when they tried to shut them down, they only knew of a few models. Shutting them down would prevent any more Geth from becoming sapient if they weren't already.

Despite this they still proceeded to fight a long and nasty war, continuing to kill geth even though they knew now they were all sentient and they were killing sentient beings.

Do you expect the Quarians to sit there and let the Geth kill their women and children?

Lol. It's not an excuse for us either and we still do it.

And we're not right to do it.

The geth do what they think they need to in order to protect themselves and their territory. What they do is wrong, but the paranoia is not unearned. Just like it's not unearned for me if I choose to sink a slug into the first geth I see without trying to talk to it first.

Failure of communication on both sides. The Geth never tried for peace, and the Quarians never tried for peace. They both overreacted and were both equally at fault.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

And the Geth entry uses shut down.

Alarmed at this, the quarians decided it would be best to shut down all geth before they conceived of revolt.

The words exterminate and destroy capture the spirit and meaning of the action, though, whereas shutdown refers only to the technical method. They intended to destroy the geth for good, didn't they, even if this only meant shutting them down and never turning them back on.

And we really have no way of knowing what "shutdown" entails, exactly. Deletion of the programs? The scrap heap? A trash compactor? The geth had now achieved sentience and qualified as artificial life. If you shut down an AI, that unique AI is lost forever.

Collider wrote...

I'm not disputing that. My point was when they tried to shut them down, they only knew of a few models. Shutting them down would prevent any more Geth from becoming sapient if they weren't already.

If I get what you're saying, you mean only a few individual geth started asking questions, and then the quarians decided to kill all geth.

But I don't understand. Don't all geth share a neural network? Surely the quarians would know that if even one geth started asking sentient questions, it was a representation of the progress and evolution of the entire neural network, which all geth share? Meaning all geth had achieved this level? How does that work? I don't really know.

Collider wrote...

Do you expect the Quarians to sit there and let the Geth kill their women and children?

See my post directly below what you quoted:

Nightwriter wrote...

Though I can understand why, since they were already taking losses on their side.

The war, and the casualties, had already started by then. It's understandable.

Collider wrote...

And we're not right to do it.

We're not. I just don't like us to pretend geth are on unequal ground with us just because they're AIs when it comes to what they're responsible for. Unequal ground is really all I protest against, the suggestion that one group is anymore innocent or at fault than the other.

Collider wrote...

Failure of communication on both sides. The Geth never tried for peace, and the Quarians never tried for peace. They both overreacted and were both equally at fault.

The trick is to figure out how to get them to talk to each other, which is something I've been thinking over for some time. I really don't think Han'Gerrel is going to want to.

Xen might be opposed to talking to them like they're an equal form of life. Shala'Raan might, and Zaal'Koris definitely would. We might need Tali to swing it.

[lovgreno]

Nightwriter wrote...
The trick is to figure out how to get them to talk to each other, which is something I've been thinking over for some time. I really don't think Han'Gerrel is going to want to.

Xen might be opposed to talking to them like they're an equal form of life. Shala'Raan might, and Zaal'Koris definitely would. We might need Tali to swing it.

I think Xen is the person to talk to about this. She is certanly no angel but seems very practical and intelligent so with enough evidence she might support diplomacy.

[Nightwriter]

Xen seems like a savvy gal, no doubt, but she seems like she's only interested in enslaving the geth and returning them to their former place as a labor force.

I can't see her seeing  them as equals. But it's possible.

[lovgreno]

Xen will certanly never see them as equals. But she can be convinced that hostility against them is not wise, at least in short time. But that is just how I read her of course.

[ObserverStatus]

Personally, I doubt Xen would want to negotiate with the geth. In the email she sent me, she made it clear that she wants to enslave them and use them to increase the quarians' influence through military power.

[Nightwriter]

Well now you've both got me torn.

I do think Xen is smart enough that she could be convinced attacking the geth is unwise... but then again, she doesn't want to attack them, does she? She wants to enslave them. Probably by innocuous means, like Rael's virus.

If she did accept a geth peace agreement (which would acknowledge that the geth and quarians are equals) I think it would be grudgingly.

[lovgreno]

She might accept peace now but puts the enslavement of the geth plans in the future in stead.

[Vaenier]

megatron999 wrote...

After carefully thinking about it I would probably choose the Quarrians. The reasno for this is
1. Geth are machine based and could be "hacked" by Reapers and used against you
2. Tali is cute

Although Legion is Cool I have more loyalty to the Quarrians then the Geth as they keep on trying to kill me!!

LMFAO. You know that Reapers hack only organics, not machines. They had to invent a special virus to work on the Geth, which took over two years of work, and was destroyed. They cant indoctrinate the Geth. They are the one ally you have who is immune.

Your second argument, however irrelivant to the topic, is true none the less.

[Vaenier]

When war does break out, not all Quarians will be fighting to take over the Geth. There are many peace seeking Quarians who would side with the Geth, because they know genocide and slavery is wrong.



So now that the lines are blurred in reality, and its not about whether the Geth are alive, who would you side with, the Quarian slavers, or the Quarian and Geth peace seekers?

[Collider]

Of course I'd side with those who wants peace instead of slavery. No question.

[Teknor]

I'd side with peace makers because quarians can't handle geth obviously. I don't have patience for another screw up.

[Pacifien]

So who here would pick a side based on the circumstances that started the war?

[Collider]

Pacifien wrote...

So who here would pick a side based on the circumstances that started the war?

That is exactly my stance.

[Vaenier]

Shandepared wrote...

To answer your question: I side with the "slavers".

I am unable to take you seriously, and I only see you are a troll because of your avatar.

[Teknor]

Vaenier wrote...

I am unable to take you seriously, and I only see you are a troll because of your avatar.

Don't get offended dude. He's not a troll just a bad debater. 

[Vaenier]

Teknor wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I am unable to take you seriously, and I only see you are a troll because of your avatar.

Don't get offended dude. He's not a troll just a bad debater. 

Its confusing the heck out of me. He has the pic representing himself as the object he wishes to commit genocide on...

[Vaenier]

Shandepared wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Its confusing the heck out of me. He has the pic representing himself as the object he wishes to commit genocide on...

The geth are perhaps my favorite race in Mass Effect.

Devil's advocate?

Is that it, you are just siding with genocide for the sake of argument?

[The Elite Elite]

Slavery? Is it slavery when we use machines to do work for us? Or if you really actually believe that the Geth are on the same level as organic life then is it slavery when we use animal labor? The Geth are machines, and the Quarians are their creators. The Geth were not doing what the Quarians wanted them to, so they try to destroy their creation so they can start over. But, despite all this I'd rather the Quarians and Geth have peace. The last thing we need is to be in the middle of another fight when the Reapers come.

[Vaenier]

You cant call them a race and then say they are not alive. You can call them a heep of factory equipment with bad programming, or a sentient race, not both.

And wouldnt your plan be simpiler if you just asked the Geth for their original machine bodies back and wrote new programs for them, leaving the AI to live on in their death star out in space away from people like you?

Modifié par Vaenier, 07 juin 2010 - 02:48 .