752 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

Like I said in the post that probably lead to the creation of this topic, I will side with the geth. I will not broker for peace if it involves any compromises on part of the geth.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

GothamLord wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

If my service bot suddenly started talking back to me, I'd turn it off too and find out what was wrong with it.  If it started to fight me about it, I know I'd crack it with a sledge hammer.  Its a machine.

More than likely, you would realize it became sentient. You would then be commiting murder in the sense of killing another living thing. It was a machine, now it's an living thing.

A machine does not just suddenly becoming a living thing, outside of some divine otherworldly act.  This isnt what happen.  Your definition and mine of what qualifies as living apparently vary and will probably not change over the course of this thread.

well then techinally, the geth became sentient by pure accident without any intention in doing so (sure it wasn't god intervening but still, pretty otherworldy act there, even for an accident). Flesh and bones can easily be replaced by machines and will probably head in that direction. Wouldn't be surprised if something like Ghost in the Shell becomes the real thing. Which is why I am not surprised and think the geth are sentient.

Hell in an world with enough money you can bring back someone from the dead, creating life is not hard.

I totally understand your standpoint and I agree, I doubt it will change. I just think it's an very narrow POV.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 29 mai 2010 - 06:09 .

[GothamLord]

Eddo36 wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

If my service bot suddenly started talking back to me, I'd turn it off too and find out what was wrong with it.  If it started to fight me about it, I know I'd crack it with a sledge hammer.  Its a machine.

More than likely, you would realize it became sentient. You would then be commiting murder in the sense of killing another living thing. It was a machine, now it's an living thing.

A machine does not just suddenly becoming a living thing, outside of some divine otherworldly act.  This isnt what happen.  Your definition and mine of what qualifies as living apparently vary and will probably not change over the course of this thread.

I'm sure Jesus Christ don't exist in the ME universe, so it's pretty moot.

Ah but see you further prove my point.  If in the ME universe the concept of God and J.C. dont exist there is no chance of otherworldly acts bestowing *life* upon the Geth. Therefore they are still machines. Highly advanced machines but still machines.

[Eddo36]

The quarians tried to make AI's of their ancestors to keep them alive after death. That's how they created the geth, I think. Blame the quarians for playing god.

Leave Geth aside, what about the Reapers? They are machine, too.

Modifié par Eddo36, 29 mai 2010 - 06:07 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

They are still robots regardless of if they are self-aware. I wouldn't tolerate my PC becoming self-aware. As much as I distrust the quarians, I can't tolerate the machine sympathizers.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 29 mai 2010 - 06:08 .

[Eddo36]

How about artificial organic life?

The Geth hoppers are getting organic.

Modifié par Eddo36, 29 mai 2010 - 06:09 .

[GothamLord]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

well then techinally, the geth became sentient by pure accident without any intention in doing so. Flesh and bones can easily be replaced by machines and will probably head in that direction. Wouldn't be surprised if something like Ghost in the Shell becomes the real thing.

Replacing limbs and certain organs is one thing.  Replacing the brain and bestowing a soul/spirit/sense of right and wrong/concept of emotions   are a bit different.

[Eddo36]

What seperates an organic from a machine?

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

GothamLord wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

well then techinally, the geth became sentient by pure accident without any intention in doing so. Flesh and bones can easily be replaced by machines and will probably head in that direction. Wouldn't be surprised if something like Ghost in the Shell becomes the real thing.

Replacing limbs and certain organs is one thing.  Replacing the brain and bestowing a soul/spirit/sense of right and wrong/concept of emotions   are a bit different.

why is that? what happens if it comes to the point in human technology where we can literally "download" an human mind into an computer harddrive, or an machine and they can operate it just like any software? Is that human being no longer human?

We're talking an age, where an human can have grey boxes with all their memories in it, if you throw 4 billion credits at it you can bring back someone from the dead etc.... This is not as farfetch as it sounds anyway, even in our 2000 day and age.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 29 mai 2010 - 06:16 .

[Eddo36]

Okay how about Halo's Cortana, that AI? She seems pretty sentient.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Eddo36 wrote...

The quarians tried to make AI's of their ancestors to keep them alive after death. That's how they created the geth, I think. Blame the quarians for playing god.

Leave Geth aside, what about the Reapers? They are machine, too.

The geth came about because like any good programmer, you want your program to be able to adapt to situations and think enough on it's own to solve problems. So when an server goes down, it'll go down to an backup server, if the backup server is down, it'll page you. If one server is too busy, it'll divide the workload amongst free servers etc.

Just like any other living bacteria or cells would do. Instead of highly evolved bacteria, they got an bit more than they could handle, and jumped the gun because this type of research is illegal, so they tried to shut it down. They were already skimming the grey area of  this research area, and they accidently crossed into the red zone. While it is true of their ancenstors... the geth were created by pure accident. Otherwise their ancestors would be attempting to kill them, which doesn't work storywise.

Eddo36 wrote...

Okay how about Halo's Cortana, that AI?
She seems pretty sentient.

Cortana was an cloned human brain put on an data disc that mimiced human brains and how they operate except that it didn't need oxygen, or air to breathe, or food/water to consume. Just an very very advance hard drive with alot of power requirements.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 29 mai 2010 - 06:23 .

[Sand King]

Eddo36 wrote...

Okay how about Halo's Cortana, that AI? She seems pretty sentient.

All of the 'smart' A.I.'s in Halo are made from a flash clone of a human brain. That would mean that they are sentient.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Wrong. The geth are a perfect example of requirement creep and poor contractor selection. That is what you get when you go with the lowest bidder.

[GothamLord]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

why is that? what happens if it comes to the point in human technology where we can literally "download" an human mind into an computer harddrive, or an machine and they can operate it just like any software? Is that human being no longer human?

We're talking an age, where an human can have grey boxes with all their memories in it, if you throw 4 billion credits at it you can bring back someone from the dead etc.... This is not as farfetch as it sounds anyway, even in our 2000 day and age.

You believe that its possible we'll be able to *download* ourselves into machines.  I dont.  It sounds cool on a scifi level but highly unlikely. Omni-tools and microchip phones into our ears   sure.   Plugging myself into my CPU  when I get to old for my physical body to function.  No.   Possible to copy thought patterns maybe.  Programming an A.I. to follow my ideas, concepts and morales maybe.  Its just an A.I. though thats been programmed. Its certainly not real, and its certainly not me.

We dont exactly know how the greybox works.  Recording memories could just be something as devices hooked into the sensors of the users eyes and ear drums capable of playback.  Hardly the same thing as bestowing life on a machine.  And the Lazaurs Project is a very annoying concept for me to debate because its a idiotic piece of writting.

[Eddo36]

"Cortana was an cloned human brain put on an data disc that mimiced human brains and how they operate except that it didn't need oxygen, or air to breathe, or food/water to consume. Just an very very advance hard drive with alot of power requirements."

If a human's brain can be cloned into an interpretation of 1's and 0's AI, that would be proof that machines can think as humans in that particular game universe (Halo, in this case).

Not just that, but if non-organic material can function like organic brain, then line between machine and organic will be hard to differentiate.

Modifié par Eddo36, 29 mai 2010 - 06:29 .

[Axeface]

Wiping out the geth would be virtually impossible. They are scattered all over the place. The Quarians are stuck in one single fleet.

Cant believe there are so many people saying "They started it!" and dooming the quarians to extinction.



I quote "We've payed enough for our mistake, we want our home back".

[Eddo36]

And when they are allowed to come back, where will the Geth go?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Axeface wrote...

Wiping out the geth would be virtually impossible. They are scattered all over the place. The Quarians are stuck in one single fleet.
Cant believe there are so many people saying "They started it!" and dooming the quarians to extinction.

I quote "We've payed enough for our mistake, we want our home back".

But then again, they seem hellbent on making another mistake in the near future.

Eddo36 wrote...

And when they are allowed to come back, where will the Geth go?

There are just a 'handful' of geth over there, nothing serious, and then those are only there as planetary caretakers. Think Wall-E...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 29 mai 2010 - 06:36 .

[Sand King]

Eddo36 wrote...

And when they are allowed to come back, where will the Geth go?

They are making a Dyson sphere.

[Eddo36]

Oh, I haven't played ME2 yet, just the first one. I should get out of here. Bye.

[Axeface]

Eddo36 wrote...

And when they are allowed to come back, where will the Geth go?

Anywhere they want? The quarian homeworld is only one world they inhabit.
The galaxy is a big place and they dont exactly have to stay close to the meat.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

GothamLord wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

why is that? what happens if it comes to the point in human technology where we can literally "download" an human mind into an computer harddrive, or an machine and they can operate it just like any software? Is that human being no longer human?

We're talking an age, where an human can have grey boxes with all their memories in it, if you throw 4 billion credits at it you can bring back someone from the dead etc.... This is not as farfetch as it sounds anyway, even in our 2000 day and age.

You believe that its possible we'll be able to *download* ourselves into machines.  I dont.  It sounds cool on a scifi level but highly unlikely. Omni-tools and microchip phones into our ears   sure.   Plugging myself into my CPU  when I get to old for my physical body to function.  No.   Possible to copy thought patterns maybe.  Programming an A.I. to follow my ideas, concepts and morales maybe.  Its just an A.I. though thats been programmed. Its certainly not real, and its certainly not me.

We dont exactly know how the greybox works.  Recording memories could just be something as devices hooked into the sensors of the users eyes and ear drums capable of playback.  Hardly the same thing as bestowing life on a machine.  And the Lazaurs Project is a very annoying concept for me to debate because its a idiotic piece of writting.

Ths isn't about programming ethics or morality into an AI. This is an existing AI structure that has self-repaired/self-maintained and improved into this point where it is now asking these questions. This isn't some quarians sitting in the back chair wondeirng if they want their AI to have lots of sarcasm or not. The quarians enabled/built this feature of self-repairing, maintaining and updating itself and let it run for who knows how long.

It then started asking questions, the quarians got scared and attacked them, attempted to shut them down. Terminate them, Kill them. Like any other living thing, it revolted and hit back against it's creators because of this.
Removing "Robot" and "AI" and just judging by actions alone, you would probably come to the conclusion that this is an living animal or spieces no?

This is an "oops" situation. This wasn't meant to happen. But it did even with the quarians efforts to make sure they stayed in the green/grey zone of Citadel law.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Eddo36 wrote...
And when they are allowed to come back, where will the Geth go?

Scrap metal to be used in the construction of the crusier or dreadnought named after Shepard. There has got to be some tech to make Shepard fighting the geth menace worth it. Or a promotion.

[Axeface]

As for the whole issue that your all getting into now. My 2 cents...

WE are just programmed machines, instincts which drive everything we do are just programs and feelings are byproducts of instinct, just programs evolved to serve a purpose. That purpose being life.

"We're all (Everything, everyone) just Stardust"

Modifié par Axeface, 29 mai 2010 - 06:40 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Eddo36 wrote...

If a human's brain can be cloned into an interpretation of 1's and 0's AI, that would be proof that machines can think as humans in that particular game universe (Halo, in this case).

Not just that, but if non-organic material can function like organic brain, then line between machine and organic will be hard to differentiate.

yes, I am not sure if you watched it or not, but Ghost in the Shell anime series brings this up throughout the series numerous times, this issue of between organic and synethic. The line will start to blur as time goes on. Eventually someone is going to make an prothestic leg that can react by nerve impulses. Then it will only be an matter of time.