752 réponses à ce sujet

[Sand King]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Eddo36 wrote...

If a human's brain can be cloned into an interpretation of 1's and 0's AI, that would be proof that machines can think as humans in that particular game universe (Halo, in this case).

Not just that, but if non-organic material can function like organic brain, then line between machine and organic will be hard to differentiate.

yes, I am not sure if you watched it or not, but Ghost in the Shell anime series brings this up throughout the series numerous times, this issue of between organic and synethic. The line will start to blur as time goes on. Eventually someone is going to make an prothestic leg that can react by nerve impulses. Then it will only be an matter of time.

I liked Ghost in the Shell, it made you think.

[Miqunator]

I'd side with the Geth if the Quarians are stupid enough to start a war before Reapers are deal with.



Because those toasters pack bigger guns

[GothamLord]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Ths isn't about programming ethics or morality into an AI. This is an existing AI structure that has self-repaired/self-maintained and improved into this point where it is now asking these questions. This isn't some quarians sitting in the back chair wondeirng if they want their AI to have lots of sarcasm or not. The quarians enabled/built this feature of self-repairing, maintaining and updating itself and let it run for who knows how long.

It then started asking questions, the quarians got scared and attacked them, attempted to shut them down. Terminate them, Kill them. Like any other living thing, it revolted and hit back against it's creators because of this.
Removing "Robot" and "AI" and just judging by actions alone, you would probably come to the conclusion that this is an living animal or spieces no?

This is an "oops" situation. This wasn't meant to happen. But it did even with the quarians efforts to make sure they stayed in the green/grey zone of Citadel law.

Morality and ethics  do have a place though if you want to claim thats its more than a machine. Because a living creature, or atleast one thats on par with what we are as humans, has some grasp of these things. Otherwise as you said, the Geth are only on the level of animals.   Last I checked humans were in charge on Earth, not cows. 

Yes the creation of the Geth was a huge FUBAR. Yes the Quarians reacted poorly.  I wouldnt kill the cow if it suddenly started talking to me. Its still a cow though, and a animal.  I would have a issue though if all the cows started killing humans and forcing use out of our homes.  Which is what the Geth did as well.

[Vicious]

I would have a issue though if all the cows started killing humans and forcing use out of our homes. Which is what the Geth did as well.

If you started a mass slaughter of talking cows simply because they are talking, and then the talking cows wound up kicking your ass, you basically put yourself in that situation and while I understand you being pissed, you dug your own grave.



That's what happened to the Quarians. Your scenario is meaningless; The Quarians attacked first and got their asses handed to them.



Forget 'right and wrong' and 'sentient and unsentient' for a moment, and consider this:



Through ME1 and 2 there is zero evidence presented that the Geth were violent UNTIL the Quarians tried to kill them. Even the Quarians unintentionally state this multiple times, and when you call them out on it [like calling Tali out on it in ME1] they offer very cheap justifications.





You reap what you sow, and intolerance, be it of faith or science, kills. end of story.

[Inverness Moon]

I don't see why anyone would side with war-mongering quarians over the geth that want peace and perhaps coexistance. The geth even went as far as to repair Rannoch to the state it was before the Morning War.

Lets also remember that if the quarians went to war again many would die. So for those of you that are siding with the quarians, how do you justify the deaths of those that will die fighting an enemy that wants peace and understanding? I wonder what their friends and families will think about that if they know that the geth do not want to fight.

I don't see how the admirals could possibly initiate a war if Legion announces that the geth want peace and that the quarians could have their homeworld back if they don't try to kill the geth again. I would think anyone that argues for war after that would just be a senseless warmonger.

NICKjnp wrote...

It's the Geth homeworld as well. You make it sound like it only belongs to the Quarians.

Well Legion basically straight-up says that home is where the heart is. The geth may have been created on Rannoch, but they live in space stations, so the planet is only valuable to them because it is valuable to their creators I think. But then again, we have Legion and its N7 armor, so maybe geth do place more of their own value in Rannoch.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 29 mai 2010 - 11:35 .

[Lumikki]

What war, who says there will be even war between them? My Sheaprd is trying find peaceful solution to situation to avoid possible war. Also who sayes Shapard care them at all or get involved two races internal matter?

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

GothamLord wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Ths isn't about programming ethics or morality into an AI. This is an existing AI structure that has self-repaired/self-maintained and improved into this point where it is now asking these questions. This isn't some quarians sitting in the back chair wondeirng if they want their AI to have lots of sarcasm or not. The quarians enabled/built this feature of self-repairing, maintaining and updating itself and let it run for who knows how long.

It then started asking questions, the quarians got scared and attacked them, attempted to shut them down. Terminate them, Kill them. Like any other living thing, it revolted and hit back against it's creators because of this.
Removing "Robot" and "AI" and just judging by actions alone, you would probably come to the conclusion that this is an living animal or spieces no?

This is an "oops" situation. This wasn't meant to happen. But it did even with the quarians efforts to make sure they stayed in the green/grey zone of Citadel law.

Morality and ethics  do have a place though if you want to claim thats its more than a machine. Because a living creature, or atleast one thats on par with what we are as humans, has some grasp of these things. Otherwise as you said, the Geth are only on the level of animals.   Last I checked humans were in charge on Earth, not cows. 

Last I check, only humans ask questions - do I have an soul. It's not the questions  that is being asked, it's the TYPE of questions they are asking for. Deep philosopical questions that animals do not ask. While it is true that the basic geth alone is equilvant to an ainmal but the way they were designed is that the more of them together in one spot, the smarter they got, more processing power etc etc.

[Mouton_Alpha]

No side.



If Quarians are that stupid, let the Geth eat them. I would try to make them get along first, though.

[ConlanBeorn]

Like I said earlier...

[Shepard, “With all due respect Admiral, I didn’t represent one of your people...I represented one of mine.”

Tali'Zorah vas Normandy is one of four people I completly trust on the Normandy.]

Some Quarians I like (Tali'Zorah & Kal'Reegar) others I don't (Admiral Daro'Xen vas Moreh). And those that I like I will gladly stand with them any time any place. Especially, should the odds be INSURMOUNTABLE!!!!!

[biomag]

Geth.



Reason is simple: Qurians are dumb if they attack the geth, as the geth ain't a danger for anyone. If there isn't a peaceful solution than the qurians are just aggressors and i normally wouldn't care about the outcome, if I am forced to pick a side, than it would be the geth. No reason to waste lifes to support an unreasonable aggression.



Qurians overstepped the rules by creating the geth. They lost the war with their slaves and the geth evolved. I don't see the point to reconquer the qurian homeworld. They can whine as much as they will, but they are living in the past holding a grudge against anyone not supporting them and especially hating the geth for being a reminder of their own mistakes. I hold no sympathy for their politics. I would immediately support their quest for a new homeworld, but for sure not a senseless war that they ain't going to win just because they don't won't to wait for a few centuries. None of them even lived on that world, its no longer their homeworld.



So if they start a war, their are committing their next big mistake and I am going to stop them.

[Bookman230]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Wow, I'm suprised how many people would side with the geth

Prersonally, I feel the same with those who side with the Quarians. But each to his own.

[CmdrFenix83]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Wow, I'm suprised how many people would side with the geth

Because so many people liked Legion.  No more, no less.  This argument has been going on since ME2 came out, and it's always the same thing.  Legion fanboys shouting how their newly precious Geth are so perfect and wonderful that everyone should love them. 

Legion is a Geth Infiltrator.  He's been doing that for two years trying to find Shepard.  He's proven himself capable of lying with that story about telling the Salarians and the made-up constellation looking like their goddess from the Batarian homeworld.  He's given no reason to trust him.  Every Geth we've encountered has tried to kill us.  Why is this one different?  Because he says so?  If you buy that, then I have some wonderful beach-front property to sell you in Nevada.

[nhsk]

Untill they realize geth infiltrate and there is no heretics, only a platform known as Legion gaining Shepards trust. Perhaps the platform is not even aware it is infiltrating.

For all we know the platform killed a few mindless husks on the derelict reaper, not like troops that will be sorely missed in the upcoming war by the reapers.

I wonder how it got past the Scions.

And the "virus", yeah, lets blow up some outdated platforms to imply that we are on the organics side.

[biomag]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Wow, I'm suprised how many people would side with the geth

Because so many people liked Legion.  No more, no less.  This argument has been going on since ME2 came out, and it's always the same thing.  Legion fanboys shouting how their newly precious Geth are so perfect and wonderful that everyone should love them. 

Legion is a Geth Infiltrator.  He's been doing that for two years trying to find Shepard.  He's proven himself capable of lying with that story about telling the Salarians and the made-up constellation looking like their goddess from the Batarian homeworld.  He's given no reason to trust him.  Every Geth we've encountered has tried to kill us.  Why is this one different?  Because he says so?  If you buy that, then I have some wonderful beach-front property to sell you in Nevada.

...and you have any proof that he is lying about that matter? Like blowing up a whole Geth station. I understand that they may took the gamble and sacrificed a huge number of their own to gain your trust, but at the same time, why should this part give you any reason to start a new war with them, just because the quarians want their "homeworld" back? I couldn't care less about their desire to conquer it and I see no reason in chasing the geth. So far there was a single war with them and except for a few human colonies they attacked the citadel and lost. After that, there been no bigger aggressions. So why attack them? What is the gain of a war with them? They proofed too weak to win a major battle even supported by a reaper. So why waste lifes for such a cause?

[Dave of Canada]

Geth, only because the Quarian's war is stupid for a lot of reasons.

[scorptatious]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Wow, I'm suprised how many people would side with the geth

Same here. But hey, that's the magic of polls!

[MajorStranger]

Don't trust my avatar, I would side with the Quarian. My loyality goes to my in-game girlfriend Tali

[CmdrFenix83]

biomag wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Wow, I'm suprised how many people would side with the geth

Because so many people liked Legion.  No more, no less.  This argument has been going on since ME2 came out, and it's always the same thing.  Legion fanboys shouting how their newly precious Geth are so perfect and wonderful that everyone should love them. 

Legion is a Geth Infiltrator.  He's been doing that for two years trying to find Shepard.  He's proven himself capable of lying with that story about telling the Salarians and the made-up constellation looking like their goddess from the Batarian homeworld.  He's given no reason to trust him.  Every Geth we've encountered has tried to kill us.  Why is this one different?  Because he says so?  If you buy that, then I have some wonderful beach-front property to sell you in Nevada.

...and you have any proof that he is lying about that matter? Like blowing up a whole Geth station. I understand that they may took the gamble and sacrificed a huge number of their own to gain your trust, but at the same time, why should this part give you any reason to start a new war with them, just because the quarians want their "homeworld" back? I couldn't care less about their desire to conquer it and I see no reason in chasing the geth. So far there was a single war with them and except for a few human colonies they attacked the citadel and lost. After that, there been no bigger aggressions. So why attack them? What is the gain of a war with them? They proofed too weak to win a major battle even supported by a reaper. So why waste lifes for such a cause?

I don't need proof that he's lying.  I need proof that he's not.  Don't blindly accept everything you're told like a sheep.  Question things that sound off... like a single Geth suddenly not trying to kill you when every single other you encounter for over 2 years does. 

The Quarian/Geth conflict is the exact plot from The Terminator except the Quarians had space flight and could retreat.  Did you sympathize with Skynet in T2 when you were told that when humans realized Skynet was self-aware that they tried to pull the plug and Skynet retaliated with a massive nuclear strike on Russia, resulting in their retaliation and day coined as Judgment Day?

Or did you accept Arny's character as 'alive' in T2?  Are you John Conner as we find in T3 gets murdered by another Arny-infiltrator model because he had developed an attachment to that model? 

Geth are malfunctioning machinery.  No more, no less.  They deserve no sympathy, and certainly do not deserve blind acceptance and trust.

[CmdrFenix83]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Legion is good, and the main reason is because the writers themselves made him good. There is nothing you can do about it. They made him good and you should be forced to accept that, period. Remember that cutscene on the derelict reaper where he “saves” Shepard and his squad from the husks?

I kinda hate that they didn’t put any shades of grey on him and his geth, if you think about it he is the top good character in your whole squad.

Characters do 180's in their personalities all the time in stories for 'plot twists'.  The last season of 24 had two perfect examples, President Taylor, and Dana Walsh.  Each of them had one type of character that suddenly became a completely different one as a plot twist.  I don't necessarily agree with the style, it seems more like a retcon of the character than a twist, but there's nothing to believe anything Legion's word as fact.  Undercover agents often are forced to commit crimes in order to buy trust.  Legion's actions are no more proof than that.  Until ME3 and an actual Geth fleet joins in the battle against the Reapers, I will remain skeptical.

[STG]

I considered the possibility that Legion is a Cerberus mole. That they somehow got their hands on a geth, reprogrammed it and then gave it to me. Made the decision to rewrite the heretics that much harder to do.



But then again, when it comes to Cerberus I am super paranoid...

[Vaenier]

STG wrote...

But then again, when it comes to Cerberus I am super paranoid...

Ya think?

Next you will say TIM is Shep's father and has been grooming him as a secret weapon for human dominance.

[STG]

Vaenier wrote...
Ya think?

Next you will say TIM is Shep's father and has been grooming him as a secret weapon for human dominance.

Nah, thats just silly.

[Landline]

I would side with the quarians because all the geth are are very clever computer programs. Nothing more.



That and Tali would bite my face off if I side with the geth.