And I was just going to reply "depends on the human life and the program" and seeing how many circles I could take the argument.Bookman230 wrote...
That YOU view as a program. Some view Geth as people, others do not. It is a contreversial issue, but we should realize no side is going to convice each other. So don't be so hostile, please.
Pacifien wrote...
And I was just going to reply "depends on the human life and the program" and seeing how many circles I could take the argument.Bookman230 wrote...
That YOU view as a program. Some view Geth as people, others do not. It is a contreversial issue, but we should realize no side is going to convice each other. So don't be so hostile, please.
Well, I could have taken a stand in the argument, but I had this feeling you'd take my stance in one situation and generalize it as my stance for every other situation that might be similar to it. This is because I was given the impression you would never feel that someone should take the side of an AI over an organic. Whereas I think it depends on the situation.GothamLord wrote...
Which just proves to me that you refuse to actually take a stand in the argument.
atheelogos wrote...
That sounds an awful lot like bigotry imo. If be a conscious thinking being doesn't make you alive what the hell does.Vicious wrote...
I will go ahead and admit, despite my arguments of how siding with the Geth are better, I don't believe they are alive merely because they can think.
ALL robots think. But loss of control programs and command input functions doesn't automatically breathe life into steel.
Modifié par Rzepik2, 30 mai 2010 - 08:31 .
Guest_Shandepared_*
Inverness Moon wrote...
Of course the conflict is everybody's business. The reapers are a serious enough threat that we need everyone to stand united and not weaken each other with infighting.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
I don't feel the Quarian-Geth conflict is something that humanity or Shepard really has any business getting involved with if it comes to war. If the issue became wider and something that needed to be dealt with, then I would probably side with the Quarians if I was forced to. Mostly because Quarians are on better terms with humanity and the rest of the Citadel Races. Both species are sentient. Neither of them are intrinsically more worthy of existence than their counterparts. But the Geth have far greater crimes on their heads. The Quarians were certainly wrong to try to destroy Geth when they became sentient before the Morning War, but that hardly justifies exterminating the entire species. The Quarians may have attempted to commit genocide but they failed, while the Geth certainly succeeded at it. The Geth drove the Quarians to the brink of extinction. A crime that unspeakable kind of makes it hard to blame the Migrant Fleet for attacking the Geth at every opportunity. Tali said the Geth killed billions of Quarians, the Migrant Fleet contains about 17 Million. Even if the entire population of the Quarian homeworld and all the colonies it created were as "low" as 2 billion, that means the Geth still wiped out over 99% percent of every man, woman and child in Quarian space. That is completely unjustifiable.
My first choice would be to convince the Geth to simply leave. They have little to no attachment to the Quarian worlds and Legion is even confused as to why the Quarians do. I imagine the best chance both species have for peace is for the Geth to leave and probably never come back. At least for a very very long time.
If the geth weren't as isolationist as they are, they would probably be on better terms with the galaxy than the quarians, but that is just speculation.
And sorry, but the casualties on the quarian side due to the geth is indeed justifiable. The geth do not thing like organics, they do not act as individuals, but rather build consensus among all before taking a course of action. We don't know whether or not the geth even understood that quarians were individuals when the war started, so they may have just thought that all quarians, age and gender irrelevant, were in consensus to fight the geth, so they defended themselves. But also, we don't know the details of the morning war, and what actions the quarians took against the geth and vice versa, so you cannot claim that what the geth did is unjustifiable when you only see the end result and not how it got there.
Vicious wrote...
atheelogos wrote...
That sounds an awful lot like bigotry imo. If be a conscious thinking being doesn't make you alive what the hell does.Vicious wrote...
I will go ahead and admit, despite my arguments of how siding with the Geth are better, I don't believe they are alive merely because they can think.
ALL robots think. But loss of control programs and command input functions doesn't automatically breathe life into steel.
A biological base, obviously. This is the kind of ill-thought response I hoped I WOULDN'T have to answer.
I already said it; ALL robots think. Machines THINK. Just because they lost certain programs that maintain user control doesn't automatically make them living beings.
Next you're going to tell me that the rogue VI that killed the Researchers in the N7: Abandoned Research Station mission was a sentient that deserved to live.
This is a text excerpt FROM THE MISSION.
My firm belief is that the VI is paranoid about the possibility of infection. its current homicidal behavior is likely out of an inflated desire to keep us from shutting it down. I believe that the VI is malfunctioning and that it believes our equipment to be infected by a virus.
If we continue to try to shut her down, she WILL keep trying to destroy us. Maybe our only recourse is to just do nothing and convince her that we're not a threat.
Gee that sounds like the Geth doesn't it? Homicidal behavior because it doesn't want to be shut down? And it's a f--ing VI, not even advanced tech like the Geth.
Geth are not alive. They are not cyborgs. They are hyper-advanced robots. And 'free will' for robots is nothing but loss of command inputs and control programs.
Oh, and the Quarians are still idiots. Get your ass handed to you, so go back and fight again when you're MUCH smaller and weaker? Yeah that'll work. But it's heavily implied that the Quarians are not going to fight the Geth so much as retake control of the Geth [being machines that they are]
and frankly, I don't know which is worse... Watching the Geth stomp the Quarians yet again or the Quarians taking control of the Geth and having the mightiest military force in the galaxy in the hands of some of the galaxies douchiest leaders, namely the Admirals who tried to exile Tali.
1.) What does rogue A.I. mean to you? It implies that they belong to someone and don't deserve to self-determinate. The geth heretics also don't believe that other sentients have the right to self-determinate (as Legion told us), which is why they attacked. I guess that is something you have in common with the heretics, which I find highly amusing.Shandepared wrote...
I'd support the quarians, specifically I would support Admiral Xen's strategy of returning the geth to quarian control. This would accomplish three things:
1.) It would eliminate the rogue A.I. we know as geth
2.) It would provide the quarians with security and needed labor to reconstruct their civilization
3.) Such a large military would be a stabilizing force in Terminus
4.) We'd have the use of the quarians/geth against the Reapers
Such a plan would also save the most quarian lives and without leaving the geth as an unpredictable and uncontrollable rogue element.
I'm sure we'll find out what the geth did and didn't know in ME3.Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
I imagine the death toll in the morning war probably ha a lot to do with the fact that the Geth were a new conciousness and were still learning about organic species, but i doubt that they simply assumed the Quarian species was entirely of one mind. A simple understanding of Quarian biology could determine that. Even if they did assume that, that doesn't make it right. Ignorance does not completly excuse someone of a crime, particularly genocide.
GothamLord wrote...
Pacifien wrote...
And I was just going to reply "depends on the human life and the program" and seeing how many circles I could take the argument.Bookman230 wrote...
That YOU view as a program. Some view Geth as people, others do not. It is a contreversial issue, but we should realize no side is going to convice each other. So don't be so hostile, please.
Which just proves to me that you refuse to actually take a stand in the argument.
But Book is right I probably need to back out of the thread totally. Its a issue that I frankly find revolting, that people have so little regard for life compared to machines. Yes Yes its my opinion.
Jorran Khaar wrote...
I went with quarians since they're the underdogs.
Modifié par megatron999, 30 mai 2010 - 04:03 .
2pac Shakur wrote...
Jorran Khaar wrote...
I went with quarians since they're the underdogs.
wut no, geth are the underdogs
everyone in the galaxy does not understand them and hates them
The council uses them as a scapegoat for everything that has happened so far
Jorran Khaar wrote...
Quarians are also prejudiced against and misunderstood by the other Citadel races, despite (according to Tali) always thinking of others. Look at Lia'Vael nar Ulnay. And geth aren't facing the threat of extinction, the loss of all their worlds, being confined to living as nomads on a bunch of dingy spaceships, and being allergic to just about everything around them (including each other). Bad press doesn't earn the geth my sympathy when compared against all that.
KalosCast wrote...
Jorran Khaar wrote...
Quarians are also prejudiced against and misunderstood by the other Citadel races, despite (according to Tali) always thinking of others. Look at Lia'Vael nar Ulnay. And geth aren't facing the threat of extinction, the loss of all their worlds, being confined to living as nomads on a bunch of dingy spaceships, and being allergic to just about everything around them (including each other). Bad press doesn't earn the geth my sympathy when compared against all that.
Tali does want to help others, but she also fully supports the complete genocide of another living race in order to get her favorite space-rock (that she's never even seen) back, and despite Legion hinting at the Geth not even wanting to go to war with the Quarian people.
And the Qurians are prejudiced against because they started a robot-uprising that caused the deaths of thousands of innocent people of multiple races and (in the public eye) led a massive assault on the seat of galactic government that may or may not have killed the Council. They're pretty justified to be a tad miffed.
Modifié par Pacifien, 30 mai 2010 - 05:52 .
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