174 réponses à ce sujet

[Gamer Xtreme]

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

[Zulu_DFA]

There is no afterlife. To Shepard it was just a bad dream.

[Busomjack]

I think it's implied in the Mass Effect universe that society has become largely secular. Ashley Williams seemed almost insecure about her belief in God which may be because modern society has developed a negative stigma towards what is believed to be an old superstition.

[Mr. Sprinkles101]

Bioware didn't want to cause a controversy over a game and then give it bad rep on the news and what not.

[Gamer Xtreme]

I never really played that scene out so I wouldn't know, I just kind of remember seeing it as an option. Anyway, many secular people still believe in heaven, and to find conclusive proof either way even if it backs up your beliefs would be life changing

[Pacifien]

No one asked him about it. What's he doing to do, Joker talks about leather seats, and Shepard replies "there are no leather seats in the afterlife?" Not only that, but for a game where the developers try to keep Shepard as vague as possible, bringing religion into it would make the player then have to address the issue. And then you'd have to be vague about the religion because the player can be anywhere from secular to devout Muslim.

He died. He's back. He's on a critical mission. Forget wondering if there was an afterlife, the guy doesn't give any time whatsoever for soul searching. If he's a spacer background, he doesn't even give time to email his mother.

[Gamer Xtreme]

Mr. Sprinkles101 wrote...

Bioware didn't want to cause a controversy over a game and then give it bad rep on the news and what not.

It's not controversial anymore to show things either way, besides I have already said that they didn't even bother to dodge the issue ingame "What was death like?" "I don't remember, maymbe we aren't supposed to remember."

[Mr. Sprinkles101]

Yes I forgot to mention that I agree with Gamer Xtreme. In ME 1 I told Ashley that I believed in God. So my Shepard should have said something about the afterlife in the second game. But nothing was ever mentioned.

[Throw_this_away]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

I 100% agree. I think we need a cliche white light scene... and then shep at the pearly gates scene to prove once and for all that christianity is THE CORRECT religion (everyone else in the galaxy is indeed going to burn in hell...)... then after shep is brought back to life we need a 30 minute (minimum) discussion tree where Shep goes through a debate of "what is the meaning of life?"  "to be or not to be"  "science vs religion" etc. 

No more plot holes Bioware!  NO MORE PLOT HOLES!!!!

I am disapoint.  Big disapoint!

[Ashton808]

This thread should go near the thread that says "Wheres the rest room?".

[Gamer Xtreme]

Pacifien wrote...

No one asked him about it. What's he doing to do, Joker talks about leather seats, and Shepard replies "there are no leather seats in the afterlife?" Not only that, but for a game where the developers try to keep Shepard as vague as possible, bringing religion into it would make the player then have to address the issue. And then you'd have to be vague about the religion because the player can be anywhere from secular to devout Muslim.
He died. He's back. He's on a critical mission. Forget wondering if there was an afterlife, the guy doesn't give any time whatsoever for soul searching. If he's a spacer background, he doesn't even give time to email his mother.

But they weren't even vague, they completely avoided it despite the obvious ramifications death has on a character. Besides, he apperently doesn't have time for that but he does have time to find a voluses credit chit.

[Gamer Xtreme]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

I 100% agree. I think we need a cliche white light scene... and then shep at the pearly gates scene to prove once and for all that christianity is THE CORRECT religion (everyone else in the galaxy is indeed going to burn in hell...)... then after shep is brought back to life we need a 30 minute (minimum) discussion tree where Shep goes through a debate of "what is the meaning of life?"  "to be or not to be"  "science vs religion" etc. 

No more plot holes Bioware!  NO MORE PLOT HOLES!!!!

I am disapoint.  Big disapoint!

Because I definitely just said I believe that Christianity is the correct religion...

[element eater]

what would you expect though shepard just sitting round the normandy musing on the nature of the universe for the entire game? any direct comment about the afterlife would instantly make the world less realistic

[cruc1al]

Lol, big deal OP. If you did see afterlife when you were dead, and you told a christian about it, he'd be delighted and in awe, and would worship you as Jesus-2. If you told an atheist, he'd tell you it was just a dream that your brain produced because you believed so hard, or for whatever reason. In other words you were delusional and you wouldn't be taken seriously by atheists. But why on earth should a video game delve into this topic, when nothing in the game is even remotely connected to the topic? Just seems kind of pointless to me. I didn't even notice that he didn't talk about it, because I assumed he was just dead as dead can be and that's it.

[Gavinthelocust]

Because Shepard is a robot and his only functions are taking people into things, killing, and screwing.

[Gamer Xtreme]

element eater wrote...

what would you expect though shepard just sitting round the normandy musing on the nature of the universe for the entire game? any direct comment about the afterlife would instantly make the world less realistic

No, I expect; "Hey, what's death like?" "I don't remember." Why can't they acknowledge he actually died?

[Pacifien]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...
But they weren't even vague, they completely avoided it despite the obvious ramifications death has on a character. Besides, he apperently doesn't have time for that but he does have time to find a voluses credit chit.

Hey man, death is in the past. Finding credit chits is the future.

You know, probably the closest we do get to Shepard mentioning how death affected her was during Jacob's romance.

ETA: The conversation between Jacob and Shepard if you're willing to take the risk.

Modifié par Pacifien, 29 mai 2010 - 01:47 .

[Gamer Xtreme]

cruc1al wrote...

Lol, big deal OP. If you did see afterlife when you were dead, and you told a christian about it, he'd be delighted and in awe, and would worship you as Jesus-2. If you told an atheist, he'd tell you it was just a dream that your brain produced because you believed so hard, or for whatever reason. In other words you were delusional and you wouldn't be taken seriously by atheists. But why on earth should a video game delve into this topic, when nothing in the game is even remotely connected to the topic? Just seems kind of pointless to me. I didn't even notice that he didn't talk about it, because I assumed he was just dead as dead can be and that's it.

At no point have I said "Shepard goes to heaven, meets Jesus, spills some drinks with Gabriel then takes the virgin out of virgin mary before coming back to earth"

And your viewpoint is that videogames shouldn't delve into this. Why shouldn't videogames deal with THE ONLY CERTAINTY IN THE UNIVERSE. Death is the only thing that is entirely universal, surely seeing something or not seeing something affects someone and why the hell shouldn't it be dealt with just because it is a video game.

[Chuvvy]

I hope someone gets this.

[Zulu_DFA]

Throw_this_away wrote...

everyone else in the galaxy is indeed going to burn in hell...

Including Tali! Yay!

This thought that Tali has been already burning in hell for three months, just made my day!!!

[smudboy]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

Gamer Xtreme: you used the key word.

Mr. Drywall doesn't have time for pain  The only pain he got time for is the pain he put on fools who don't know what time it is.  What, character development, for a protagonist?

They in for a surprise.

A RUDE, PAINFUL SURPRISE.

[therealdeal77]

What plot hole??  For all we know, Cerberus arrived and picked up Shepards frozen body, (which kept his brain intact) and then immediately started the process to revive or resurrect him, whatever you want to call it.  It then took Cerberus 2 years to COMPLETELY revive him physically while his brain activity would show that he was in a coma.

There you have it, no plot hole whatsoever.

[smudboy]

therealdeal77 wrote...

What plot hole??  For all we know, Cerberus arrived and picked up Shepards frozen body, (which kept his brain intact) and then immediately started the process to revive or resurrect him, whatever you want to call it.  It then took Cerberus 2 years to COMPLETELY revive him physically while his brain activity would show that he was in a coma.

There you have it, no plot hole whatsoever.

*burns comic books*

[Scerendo]

Slidell505 wrote...



I hope someone gets this.

I love you.

[Throw_this_away]

therealdeal77 wrote...

What plot hole??  For all we know, Cerberus arrived and picked up Shepards frozen body, (which kept his brain intact) and then immediately started the process to revive or resurrect him, whatever you want to call it.  It then took Cerberus 2 years to COMPLETELY revive him physically while his brain activity would show that he was in a coma.

There you have it, no plot hole whatsoever.

with potential or life... maybe he was never dead... thus could not go to an afterlife?  Or maybe he cuold have a few drinks with Jesus... but not go to the VIP room with him in heaven. 

Or maybe bioware didn't want to touch upon the issue because they wanted to keep it science fiction... and not get into religous wars territory.  Imagine how uncomfortable the codex entry on death, rebirth and the afterlife would be.   Or maybe they sidestepped the issue for reasons of story pacing (the opening sequence was long as it was).