174 réponses à ce sujet

[Sigma Tauri]

Babylon 5 had the death and resurrection thing. In fact, that show had major religious undertones and some philosophy.



Mass Effect overall lacks that. Lots of world-building, but it's shallow in terms of deeper human questions.

[Sajuro]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

Actually he said that the last thing he remembered was being spaced and then waking up in the Cerberus lab.
Conclusion: there is no such thing as heaven

Modifié par Sajuro, 29 mai 2010 - 02:30 .

[drunken pyromaniac]

[Inquisitor Recon]

Bioware was kinda stupid.

[cruc1al]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

And your viewpoint is that videogames shouldn't delve into this. Why shouldn't videogames deal with THE ONLY CERTAINTY IN THE UNIVERSE. Death is the only thing that is entirely universal, surely seeing something or not seeing something affects someone and why the hell shouldn't it be dealt with just because it is a video game.

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not saying video games shouldn't delve into this. I'm saying, why should they? Why is it something to complain about if they don't delve into it? I just don't see it's a big deal. It's a game and it's purpose is to entertain, and if you find that a game doesn't delve into a particular philosophical topic of your liking, it's simply an overreaction to be disappointed.

[Throw_this_away]

cruc1al wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

And your viewpoint is that videogames shouldn't delve into this. Why shouldn't videogames deal with THE ONLY CERTAINTY IN THE UNIVERSE. Death is the only thing that is entirely universal, surely seeing something or not seeing something affects someone and why the hell shouldn't it be dealt with just because it is a video game.

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not saying video games shouldn't delve into this. I'm saying, why should they? Why is it something to complain about if they don't delve into it? I just don't see it's a big deal. It's a game and it's purpose is to entertain, and if you find that a game doesn't delve into a particular philosophical topic of your liking, it's simply an overreaction to be disappointed.

Why don't they delve into using the washroom, sleeping, eating, etc?  Because Bioware chose not to. 

[cruc1al]

[quote]Throw_this_away wrote...

[quote]therealdeal77 wrote...

What plot hole??  For all we know, Cerberus arrived and picked up Shepards frozen body, (which kept his brain intact) and then immediately started the process to revive or resurrect him, whatever you want to call it.  It then took Cerberus 2 years to COMPLETELY revive him physically while his brain activity would show that he was in a coma.

There you have it, no plot hole whatsoever.
[/quote]

with potential or life... maybe he was never dead... thus could not go to an afterlife?  Or maybe he cuold have a few drinks with Jesus... but not go to the VIP room with him in heaven.  [/quote]

Or maybe God with his omnipotence erases Shepard's memory of his experience of chilling with Jesus, so as not to give believers a reason not to have faith.

[/quote]

[Inquisitor Recon]

It would have just made more sense if Shepard was only 99% dead and in some kind of a coma for two years. That way you dodge the whole can of worms, and it is far more believable from a medical standpoint.

To dem godless commies here, if you read the codex it mentions that all of the major species have some forms of religious belief. Hell, just look at Ashley and Thane. And people who aren't religious aren't automatically atheists who believe in nothing after death.

Bioware naturally didn't want to stir something up (and the the trolls will soon prove them correct again), and naturally your brain wouldn't be recording whatever your soul was doing when it was away.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 29 mai 2010 - 02:45 .

[mosor]

Busomjack wrote...

I think it's implied in the Mass Effect universe that society has become largely secular. Ashley Williams seemed almost insecure about her belief in God which may be because modern society has developed a negative stigma towards what is believed to be an old superstition.

Take Kasumi with you and she invokes god more than once. Never mind the "Maker" funny business in the first game (Whatever happened to that BTW?)  The Asari also tend to invoke their goddess.

[Chuvvy]

Scerendo wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...



I hope someone gets this.

I love you.

Thank you sir.

[Gamer Xtreme]

cruc1al wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

And your viewpoint is that videogames shouldn't delve into this. Why shouldn't videogames deal with THE ONLY CERTAINTY IN THE UNIVERSE. Death is the only thing that is entirely universal, surely seeing something or not seeing something affects someone and why the hell shouldn't it be dealt with just because it is a video game.

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not saying video games shouldn't delve into this. I'm saying, why should they? Why is it something to complain about if they don't delve into it? I just don't see it's a big deal. It's a game and it's purpose is to entertain, and if you find that a game doesn't delve into a particular philosophical topic of your liking, it's simply an overreaction to be disappointed.

I don't complain if Mario doesn't deal with this for instance, because MARIO DOESN'T DIE AND GET RESURECTED! If the protaganist dies in the storyline I expect death to be dealt with, not glossed over.

[Sigma Tauri]

mosor wrote...
The Asari also tend to invoke their goddess.

It's a cultural left over, not a religious invocation.

[Sajuro]

mosor wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

I think it's implied in the Mass Effect universe that society has become largely secular. Ashley Williams seemed almost insecure about her belief in God which may be because modern society has developed a negative stigma towards what is believed to be an old superstition.

Take Kasumi with you and she invokes god more than once. Never mind the "Maker" funny business in the first game (Whatever happened to that BTW?)  The Asari also tend to invoke their goddess.

With the Asari, that could be like me saying 'God dammit'

[EvilIguana966]

Assume for a moment that the ME universe does have an afterlife. Where is it written that, upon returning to the material world, a person would have any recollection of his experiences in the hereafter? Bioware intentionally left this all unsaid. Nothing relating to Shepard's resurrection proves or disproves the existence of a higher power.



I have deduced through other means, however, that God does exist in the Mass Effect universe. It's the Asari. There is no conceivable way, except through some sort of intelligent design, that the Asari could have ended up looking identical to human females except for the head fringe and skin color.

[cruc1al]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

cruc1al wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

And your viewpoint is that videogames shouldn't delve into this. Why shouldn't videogames deal with THE ONLY CERTAINTY IN THE UNIVERSE. Death is the only thing that is entirely universal, surely seeing something or not seeing something affects someone and why the hell shouldn't it be dealt with just because it is a video game.

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not saying video games shouldn't delve into this. I'm saying, why should they? Why is it something to complain about if they don't delve into it? I just don't see it's a big deal. It's a game and it's purpose is to entertain, and if you find that a game doesn't delve into a particular philosophical topic of your liking, it's simply an overreaction to be disappointed.

I don't complain if Mario doesn't deal with this for instance, because MARIO DOESN'T DIE AND GET RESURECTED! If the protaganist dies in the storyline I expect death to be dealt with, not glossed over.

Well, it's unfortunate if it's such a big deal to you. For me, it doesn't have really any relevance at all.

Although they do say in-game that the last thing Shepard remembers is Normandy blowing up. So, either he was in heaven but doens't remember it, or he was dreaming and doesn't remember it, or he wasn't doing anything and hence doesn't remember anything.

EDIT: Oh, and you need to drop the caps. It doesn't impress anyone.

Modifié par cruc1al, 29 mai 2010 - 03:14 .

[cruc1al]

EvilIguana966 wrote...

I have deduced through other means, however, that God does exist in the Mass Effect universe. It's the Asari. There is no conceivable way, except through some sort of intelligent design, that the Asari could have ended up looking identical to human females except for the head fringe and skin color.

You're funny. Ever thought it's simply a design choice to make humans playing Mass Effect identify with asari characters better? You know, a selling point? Or perhaps you were being sarcastic.

[Chuvvy]

Goddammit man, who ****ing cares? It's a ****ING GAME! Just because Shepard doesn't mention it in THE GAME doesn't mean it's not real. And just because he does doesn't mean it is. And if you don't know games don't effect real life, so just because a game says somthing doesn't mean it's true. If it was back in 07 the entire galactic civilazation would have gottan wiped out for the millionth time by an ancient race of machines from dark space. Some people hold diffrent belifs then you learn to deal with it. And if you're that worried about it why don't you just kill yourselves and find out what happens?

Yes. I mad.

Modifié par Slidell505, 29 mai 2010 - 03:33 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Yeah but if I killed myself I couldn't come back to brag about the afterlife to you people.

[cruc1al]

ReconTeam wrote...

Yeah but if I killed myself I couldn't come back to brag about the afterlife to you people.

Eternal bliss, dude. Leather seats. You wouldn't even remember Earth.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Well personally I think that one might be punished a bit for suicide, cowards way out and all.

[Vicious]

Heaven? Afterlife? In ROFL. It's not enough to be a 'spirit' or a 'ghost.' because THERE IS NO MAGIC.



In order to interact with things you need neurologic systems, BRAINS THAT FUNCTION. And Shepard's was nearly past ressurection.



That's why you could never experience Heaven. Everything you see and feel is completely dependent on the proper functioning of the shell of meat that is your body. It sucks sure but I'm glad Bioware sucked it up.



Are there souls? Sure, I can buy that. But I wouldn't bet money on seeing this because once dead I will have nothing to 'see' it with.









And really, what do you people want? Shepard to be rezzed by Cerberus and be like "MAN THAT WAS AWESOME I WAS HAVING SECKS WITH SO MANY WOMEN WHY'D YOU BRING ME BACK?" or something?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Vicious wrote...
Heaven? Afterlife? In ROFL. It's not enough to be a 'spirit' or a 'ghost.' because THERE IS NO MAGIC.
In order to interact with things you need neurologic systems, BRAINS THAT FUNCTION. And Shepard's was nearly past ressurection.
That's why you could never experience Heaven. Everything you see and feel is completely dependent on the proper functioning of the shell of meat that is your body. It sucks sure but I'm glad Bioware sucked it up.
Are there souls? Sure, I can buy that. But I wouldn't bet money on seeing this because once dead I will have nothing to 'see' it with.
And really, what do you people want? Shepard to be rezzed by Cerberus and be like "MAN THAT WAS AWESOME I WAS HAVING SECKS WITH SO MANY WOMEN WHY'D YOU BRING ME BACK?" or something?

Obvious troll is really obvious.

[Vicious]

Serious rebuttals only, please.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Simple Answer: Bioware already drew controvery for it's graphic depictions of interactive homosexual sex scenes in ME1, they don't intend to repeat the same sort of thing by pushing their view of the after life in either direction. So they ignore it entirely.