174 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonathan Shepard]

Mr. Sprinkles101 wrote...

Bioware didn't want to cause a controversy over a game and then give it bad rep on the news and what not.

Oh, for God's sake...
Implementing religion was done in the first game too, and Shepard got to say what he/she believed. There was no reason not to do it this time.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Jonathan Shepard wrote...

Mr. Sprinkles101 wrote...

Bioware didn't want to cause a controversy over a game and then give it bad rep on the news and what not.

Oh, for God's sake...
Implementing religion was done in the first game too, and Shepard got to say what he/she believed. There was no reason not to do it this time.

Opinions on a character about religion or beliefs is one thing, direct affirmation of what post-death or afterlife is, is a completely different subject.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

Wow dude. You give theists a bad name. Yes, I was disappointed not to be able to expand on my Shepard saying in the first game he believed in God, but let's use some common sense. If 200 years down the line we travel to the furthest regions of the galaxy and discover alien life, it won't disprove the existence of God, nothing ever will, but that would kill Christianity since that's like the only religion that denies the possibility, and PROBABILITY that aliens exist.

Expect this thread to be locked shortly by some dev.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 29 mai 2010 - 06:31 .

[smecky-kitteh]

whats there to say? how can he comment on being dead. its not like there was anything to remember. i mean... he was dead...

[SkullandBonesmember]

smecky-kitteh wrote...

whats there to say? how can he comment on being dead. its not like there was anything to remember. i mean... he was dead...

Tell that to those who have had near death experiences. I didn't EXPECT, let alone want that, but they gave theists a nod in 1, why not expand on that for 2?

[Chuvvy]

Shepard went to mother****ing VALHALLA! Fight all day die feast wake up the next morning rinse and repeat.

[Pauravi]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Shepard is no character. The producers have said it a thousand times, Shepard's story is your story. Commander Shepard is more of an avatar, or a character you created with a pre-established last name, voice and if you want it or not, face.

Actually I always heard it explained as rather the opposite.
Shepard's story is your story, of course, and you can choose between Paragon and Renegade Shepard, or somewhere in between, but there are many aspects of his personality that you simply don't control.  Shepard is just Shepard and in some ways, you have to agree that Shepard is not entirely your character.  He is a driven, task-oriented, fairly no-nonsense guy, who simply doesn't spend a lot of time philosophizing about stuff.  This is true no matter what dialogue choices you make, or what Paragon/Renegade actions you choose.

I'm not implying that you have no control at all over his personality, Bioware does give you a great deal of choices to make.  But there are certain aspects of Shepard's personality that are written in stone.

[Madman123456]

If you're religious, you could believe that God or whoever knows in advance that Shepard will be resurrected and that he won't let him into heaven for the Meantime. Or maybe he was in Heaven but doesn't remember it because God deletes Memory because he wants People to have faith instead of knowing about the Afterlife.

[Chuvvy]

Pauravi wrote...

I'm not implying that you have no control at all over his personality, Bioware does give you a great deal of choices to make.  But there are certain aspects of Shepard's personality that are written in stone.

You believed that bull**** line? No offense but that's something they pulled out of their ass to explain why there's no same sex romance. Even though you can bone a clearly female Asari as a female in ME1. Hell in one of the origenal promotional videos they said the Asari were an all female race. Sort of an off topic rant. I think we should talk more about Valhalla. And more about Vikings in general.

Modifié par Slidell505, 29 mai 2010 - 07:05 .

[Pauravi]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Tell that to those who have had near death experiences. I didn't EXPECT, let alone want that, but they gave theists a nod in 1, why not expand on that for 2?

Well, people who had near-death experiences have them while they are dying, not when they are actually dead.  Besides, it's not like they happen to everyone.  I know someone who very nearly died.  When I went to visit her in the hospital I asked her directly if she had any such experiences, and she said she couldn't remember a thing.

Also, the nod they gave to theism was a very small one.  One single conversation that was more about Ashley than Shepard.  Shep can mention that he believes in God, but that is the end of it.  In fact, that conversation simply confirms how little a role religion plays in his life.  They never explore it at all because it simply isn't part of Shepard's personality -- he is a highly passive believer if he is one at all.  In that case his reaction makes perfect sense.  If it even crossed his mind, he probably simply figured that that was the way God wanted it to happen.

[Kali-yuga]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

It would have been nice if shepard said something about the time. Shepard wasnt really dead..... was he/she? If not then it would have been like comba state.
There never was much character build on shepard, he/she did most of the questioning and then listening.

[Pauravi]

Slidell505 wrote...

You believed that bull**** line? No offense but that's something they pulled out of their ass to explain why there's no same sex romance.

No, I'm not going by Bioware's official statement.  My opinion was more based off the way the game actually plays out.  There simply are aspects of Shepard's personality that are set in stone.  Some things are malleable and some are not.  It doesn't matter what Bioware says, that's just the truth of the matter.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Pauravi wrote...

Well, people who had near-death experiences have them while they are dying, not when they are actually dead.  Besides, it's not like they happen to everyone.  I know someone who very nearly died.  When I went to visit her in the hospital I asked her directly if she had any such experiences, and she said she couldn't remember a thing.

Also, the nod they gave to theism was a very small one.  One single conversation that was more about Ashley than Shepard.  Shep can mention that he believes in God, but that is the end of it.  In fact, that conversation simply confirms how little a role religion plays in his life.  They never explore it at all because it simply isn't part of Shepard's personality -- he is a highly passive believer if he is one at all.  In that case his reaction makes perfect sense.  If it even crossed his mind, he probably simply figured that that was the way God wanted it to happen.

Agreed that not everybody has it. If anything when I died, all I remember is black, if that's even a memory. But you're wrong that people have NDEs before they die. YouTube "The Day I Died". Good documentary.

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 29 mai 2010 - 07:14 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Pauravi wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Shepard is no character. The producers have said it a thousand times, Shepard's story is your story. Commander Shepard is more of an avatar, or a character you created with a pre-established last name, voice and if you want it or not, face.

Actually I always heard it explained as rather the opposite.
Shepard's story is your story, of course, and you can choose between Paragon and Renegade Shepard, or somewhere in between, but there are many aspects of his personality that you simply don't control.  Shepard is just Shepard and in some ways, you have to agree that Shepard is not entirely your character.  He is a driven, task-oriented, fairly no-nonsense guy, who simply doesn't spend a lot of time philosophizing about stuff.  This is true no matter what dialogue choices you make, or what Paragon/Renegade actions you choose.

I'm not implying that you have no control at all over his personality, Bioware does give you a great deal of choices to make.  But there are certain aspects of Shepard's personality that are written in stone.

Yes, I agree. And this is because of the videogames's limitation to RPGs. That's why videogames will never truly be an RPG experience. You are limited to the script and programation of the game, you don't really have a freedom to roleplay whatever and whenever you want. Putting limitations aside, I feel much more that Shepard is an avatar because more than the choices, you can also determine Shepard's first name, past and looks. Each Shepard has a big chance of being unique to each player.

[Aradace]

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

Why does he not react to his own death? Seriously?  You DO realize that not EVERYONE has the same reaction to death (even possibly their own) as you would right?  Me for example, in Shepard's shoes, I'd react in alot of the same ways and just treat it as a non chalant thing as a "Yea, so what? I died...Moving on..." 

Seriously, it's like someone else posted about things being secular...You dont honestly think that BW would trod on the taboo ground of "religion" do you? lol....That would just have bad idea written all over it XD

[SkullandBonesmember]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Yes, I agree. And this is because of the videogames's limitation to RPGs. That's why videogames will never truly be an RPG experience. You are limited to the script and programation of the game, you don't really have a freedom to roleplay whatever and whenever you want. Putting limitations aside, I feel much more that Shepard is an avatar because more than the choices, you can also determine Shepard's first name, past and looks. Each Shepard has a big chance of being unique to each player.

Bull. As I know you've already read my point in the past, but again, we've gone from Pong, to Super Mario, to Crash Bandicoot, to Prince Of Persia, to Heavy Rain. Video games will keep on evolving.

[Ashton808]

Alas, why is this thread still alive?

[SkullandBonesmember]

Ashton808 wrote...

Alas, why is this thread still alive?

Dunno, but like I said in my first post, it won't last too much longer.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Yes, I agree. And this is because of the videogames's limitation to RPGs. That's why videogames will never truly be an RPG experience. You are limited to the script and programation of the game, you don't really have a freedom to roleplay whatever and whenever you want. Putting limitations aside, I feel much more that Shepard is an avatar because more than the choices, you can also determine Shepard's first name, past and looks. Each Shepard has a big chance of being unique to each player.

Bull. As I know you've already read my point in the past, but again, we've gone from Pong, to Super Mario, to Crash Bandicoot, to Prince Of Persia, to Heavy Rain. Video games will keep on evolving.

I've made an analysis to how it is nowadays, as they are limited to programming and scripting. Making an assumption that they will break this barrier doesn't really prove anything. Well, I think this barrier will be broken when we have some kind of adaptive AI game maker, but whatever, this is really off topic.

[onelifecrisis]

After dying Shepard meets up with Cerberus who direct him to Afterlife in which he sees red flames everywhere. Seems obvious to me that in ME2 Shepard is dead and has gone to hell for his sins (let's face it, even a "paragon" Shepard has a pretty hefty body count to try and justify).

[jaff00]

Throw_this_away wrote...

I 100% agree. I think we need a cliche white light scene... and then shep at the pearly gates scene to prove once and for all that christianity is THE CORRECT religion (everyone else in the galaxy is indeed going to burn in hell...)... then after shep is brought back to life we need a 30 minute (minimum) discussion tree where Shep goes through a debate of "what is the meaning of life?"  "to be or not to be"  "science vs religion" etc. 

No more plot holes Bioware!  NO MORE PLOT HOLES!!!!

I am disapoint.  Big disapoint!

Win post. 
Fail topic.

[frylock23]

Questions of faith aside, I am also somewhat disappointed that there wasn't more effect to Shep having been out of commission for two years. That's a lot of time to lose, and he/she and everyone else around him seem to treat it as though it never happened in large part. Certainly, there wasn't much, "Oh, I forgot. You've been dead for two years. My bad." Nope, everyone seems much more concerned with you and Cerberus than with realizing that you've missed out on two years they've all lived. I expected that to cause more issues than it did.

[Redem0]

The Reason Shepard hardly has change because of death his because Reaper actually are god and since he's kill one afterlife proved itself a bit of a pain, however he came back with a plan

[Apocalypse89]

Doesn't Shepard mention, in the first conversation with Jacob, that the last thing he remembers is the Normandy being attacked?



So either he experienced nothing between his death and revival, or he doesn't remember it. Take from that what you will.