174 réponses à ce sujet

[Jackal904]

Omg OP shut the hell up.

[SkullandBonesmember]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

I've made an analysis to how it is nowadays, as they are limited to programming and scripting. Making an assumption that they will break this barrier doesn't really prove anything. Well, I think this barrier will be broken when we have some kind of adaptive AI game maker, but whatever, this is really off topic.

With the technology that's available to us today, it's very possible to make a Heavy Rain on steroids.

[Inquisitor Recon]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
Don't disprove the existence of God, nothing ever will, but that would kill Christianity since that's like the only religion that denies the possibility, and PROBABILITY that aliens exist.

Expect this thread to be locked shortly by some dev.

Umm. The Pope himself of the more tradtional Roman Catholic church said that nothing prevents the possiblity of other life in the universe.

[Ecael]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

that would kill Christianity since that's like the only religion that denies the possibility, and PROBABILITY that aliens exist.

That depends on the sect of Christianity as well as the beliefs of the individual - then again, it always depends on an individual's beliefs.

http://www.catholic....edestaca&id=410

When asked how aliens could be redeemed, Father Funes referred to the Gospel parable of the lost sheep. Aliens, he speculated, could already be redeemed because they could have remained in full friendship with God, while the human race “could be precisely the lost sheep, the sinners that need the shepherd.”

But what if they were sinners like us? Father Funes replied that just as Jesus is believed to have come to save mankind, so he was sure that they, “in some way, would have the chance to enjoy God’s mercy.”

Shepherd.

[Lumikki]

Oh my, someone still believes afterlife. You could write letter to Santa Claus and ask why Shepard doesn't tell about it.

[SkullandBonesmember]

ReconTeam wrote...

Umm. The Pope himself of the more tradtional Roman Catholic church said that nothing prevents the possiblity of other life in the universe.

Talking about Protestants mostly.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Lumikki wrote...

Oh my, someone still believes afterlife. You could write letter to Santa Claus and ask why Shepard doesn't tell about it.

Yeah, because remotes, televisions, toothbrushes, DVDs, change, and radios all have the possibility of appearing out of thin air. 

[Pauravi]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
But you're wrong that people have NDEs before they die. YouTube "The Day I Died". Good documentary.

Actually it is a pretty poor documentary from a scientific standpoint.
Based on the relative paucity of information in that documentary, there is no way you could conclude NDE's happen after total brain death.  Their criteria for judging brain death (only 8 seconds after a heart attack?) is completely inadequate and scientifically sloppy, and suggests that the research they were using for their documentary either wasn't done properly, or that they edited the interviews in order to make it sound as if they were coming to a more definitive conclusion than they actually had.  The documentary relies largely on emotional testaments from people who have had NDEs.  Their statements often make no scientific sense and their experiences are very much reflective of what you'd expect a person to experience during an uncontrolled release of neurotransmitters during the process of brain death, which is one theory for why people experience these things.  It is, essentially, a really great drug trip.

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Oh my, someone still believes afterlife. You could write letter to Santa Claus and ask why Shepard doesn't tell about it.

Yeah, because remotes, televisions, toothbrushes, DVDs, change, and radios all have the possibility of appearing out of thin air. 

They don't, obviously, and no one suggested that.  They get invented by humans.  I'm not quite sure what relevance televisions have to the discussion.

Modifié par Pauravi, 29 mai 2010 - 10:36 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

Pauravi wrote...

Actually it is a pretty poor documentary from a scientific standpoint.

If you have the time watch it once more, I don't think you realize why I suggested.

Pauravi wrote...

They don't, obviously, and no one suggested that.  They get invented by humans.  I'm not quite sure what relevance televisions have to the discussion.

They do obviously since atheists believe the Big Bang.

I actually believe in the Bang, just that there WAS a cause. If there was no planets, black holes, cells, comets, stars, NO TIME, ANYTHING. So if you admit remotes, televisions, toothbrushes, DVDs, change, and radios can't appear spontaneously, can the entire universe?

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 29 mai 2010 - 10:59 .

[Eretikas]

ReconTeam wrote...
To dem godless commies here, if you read the codex it mentions that all of the major species have some forms of religious belief.

I bet all of the major species have ability to fantasize, invent its own Flying Spaghetti Monsters and lie.

Mass Effect overall lacks that. Lots of world-building, but it's shallow in terms of deeper human questions.

Game can have deeper questions, but it would be wrong to act like church and pretend like you have answers to these questions when in reality you don't.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Lumikki wrote...
Oh my, someone still believes afterlife. You
could write letter to Santa Claus and ask why Shepard doesn't tell
about it.

Cool bro! You're so smart cause you think you don't have a soul and are just going to rot after death. A+ for you!
Fricken trolls.

Eretikas wrote...
I bet all of the major species have ability to fantasize, invent its own Flying Spaghetti Monsters and lie.

And thank you for further proving my point that bioware would rather not stir up trolls like yourself.

[Theoristitis]

Gamer Xtreme - I think people believe you're Christian because you used it as an example ("Isn't it possible for Shepard to be a Christian?") in your first post. That, or they're projecting it onto you for convenience of discussion. Or they're Christian, and so aren't referring to you but are basing their discussion on their beliefs. Or another reason I can't think of. Don't know.



On the subject at hand...there are a number of possible reasons. Maybe Bioware decided that controversy wouldn't be worth it. Maybe it was on every character's mind, but it's taboo to mention. Maybe Shepard doesn't want to mention it, or doesn't remember it, or he/she has more pressing matters on his/her mind (like the abduction of humanity and return of the Reapers) than to worry about water under the bridge. Maybe (unlikely) his/her brain was always running with incredibly low activity, so he/she was never "dead".



My personal thoughts? I think that Bioware, true to the RPG aspect of Mass Effect, decided not to give Shepard a view on his/her existence/death. They wanted US, the players, to project that upon our Shepards, as yet another form of customization that makes OUR Shepards' stories unique.

I'd rather choose as much as possible how my Shepard thinks and believes and create my own unique character than have my (I say "my" because I view Shepard as, when it all comes down to it, an extension of the player) beliefs spoon-fed to me. Even if that belief is an inability to remember (which is a slap in the face to those who would like him to remember).



I am sorry that Bioware didn't accommodate those who would like their Shepards to be vocal about their own deaths. But it's easier to imagine what Shepard could believe than it is to forget what Shepard has stated aloud.

[Eretikas]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
I actually believe in the Bang, just that there WAS a cause. If there was no planets, black holes, cells, comets, stars, NO TIME, ANYTHING. So if you admit remotes, televisions, toothbrushes, DVDs, change, and radios can't appear spontaneously, can the entire universe?

Scientists don’t say that nothing existed before Big Bang (only Christians spread this pseudo-scientific myth). Major property of matter is that matter can't be destroyed or appear from nothing. This property leads to logical conclusion that matter existed and will exist forever (creation is not needed) and Big Bang was just matter form change event. It’s much more realistic explanation of events than some story about angels and fairies.

[Ecael]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

They do obviously since atheists believe the Big Bang.

I actually believe in the Bang, just that there WAS a cause. If there was no planets, black holes, cells, comets, stars, NO TIME, ANYTHING. So if you admit remotes, televisions, toothbrushes, DVDs, change, and radios can't appear spontaneously, can the entire universe?

I agree with Skull here, although the analogy had me slightly confused.

People can believe anything they want about the origin of the universe (or the events preceding that) - that's their choice.

However, the problem with both religious and non-religious people is the inflexibility of their beliefs. Some even push those beliefs on other people as if they were 100% sure that what they believe is fact.

The first draft of the Big Bang Theory was hypothesized by a Roman Catholic priest and physicist, Georges Lemaître. It is currently the most accepted explanation of how the universe formed, but it does not speculate upon where the "primordial atom" came from.

Can people speculate that it came from a higher power? Or several higher powers? Or that nature and space exists as that higher power? Sure.

And as dangerous as it sounds, you can even speculate that it all started from an intergalactic synthetic organic race known as the R-

[spam image removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 31 mai 2010 - 10:07 .

[SkullandBonesmember]

Eretikas wrote...

Scientists don’t say that nothing existed before Big Bang (only Christians spread this pseudo-scientific myth). Major property of matter is that matter can't be destroyed or appear from nothing. This property leads to logical conclusion that matter existed and will exist forever (creation is not needed) and Big Bang was just matter form change event. It’s much more realistic explanation of events than some story about angels and fairies.

*sighs* Yes, matter cannot be destroyed. I'm well aware. Allow me to remove "ANYTHING". That still leaves us with-

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

If there was no planets, black holes, cells, comets, stars, NO TIME what does that tell us? So if you admit remotes, televisions, toothbrushes, DVDs, change, and radios can't appear spontaneously, can the entire universe?

Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 29 mai 2010 - 11:43 .

[Eretikas]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...
If there was no planets, black holes, cells, comets, stars, NO TIME what does that tell us? So if you admit remotes, televisions, toothbrushes, DVDs, change, and radios can't appear spontaneously, can the entire universe?

Answer could be "Yes" or "No" depending on what do you mean by spontaneously or if Universe in "current state". Also there are different views on "NO TIME". It's relative. We could say that "time itself slows downs" or "matter events will slow down". Argument is too vague and involves too many possible conditions in order to be valid here.

Modifié par Eretikas, 30 mai 2010 - 12:11 .

[Nizzemancer]

obvious troll is obvious.



Troll, get out I'm ******.

[SkullandBonesmember]

Nizzemancer wrote...

obvious troll is obvious.

Troll, get out I'm ******.

NEWSFLASH:
Just because somebody says something you disagree with DOES NOT make them a troll.

[Alphyn]

It's up to the player mostly, and what his or her Shepard wants to believe, or what he or she believes. If you want to think that your Shepard is a Christian and is taken to the Buddhist equivalent of afterlife, that's fine.



The game devs did two very smart moves here:



1) They left the entirety of the concept of "afterlife" completely out of the game, leaving it blank. And it should. It's up to the player in the end.



2) They didn't allow you to retell your stories of the afterlife (assuming your Shepard had one [remember; your choice].) because it is a VERY sensitive issue. I'm sure you are all aware of this.

There are simply too many religions to choose from, many of them not even heard of before.

For example, if your Shepard is a Satanist and had a Satanist out look on the afterlife, what would that say to other religions? Christians in general (for obvious reasons) are especially sensitive to this religion (or cult, as some call it) for what they believe in. All it takes is a couple of disgruntled Christians and BAM, it's on the news, claiming that BioWare believes and supports Satanism, and it's the Fox News "(Se)Xbox" drama all over again, except it might be slightly more serious.





BioWare left this whole thing blank because it is simply too sensitive and complicated to get tangled in. It's best to let the players decide and bicker/discuss amongst themselves; it gives BioWare breathing room, and gives the player more choice and Role Playing abilities.

[Alphyn]

And, if Shepard said "I can't remember" to a question asking about the afterlife, you'd complain against that anyway.



Either way, in your eyes, it's just BioWare being lazy.

[smecky-kitteh]

SkullandBonesmember wrote...

smecky-kitteh wrote...

whats there to say? how can he comment on being dead. its not like there was anything to remember. i mean... he was dead...

Tell that to those who have had near death experiences. I didn't EXPECT, let alone want that, but they gave theists a nod in 1, why not expand on that for 2?

and some people dont have one so lets just say shepard didn't have one. besides I dont see how something like this could even be worked into the game.

[smecky-kitteh]

bump

Modifié par smecky-kitteh, 30 mai 2010 - 12:26 .

[smecky-kitteh]

bump

Modifié par smecky-kitteh, 30 mai 2010 - 12:30 .

[smecky-kitteh]

Ecael wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

Gamer Xtreme wrote...

So, I am playing Mass Effect, a game respected and praised for a strong narrative when suddenly something bad happens, I die.

Now, apparently Commander Shepard has been dead for two long years, and he is awoken by the Lazerus project to go "Pwn t3h r34p3r5" So far so predictable. However one massive problem with this beyond the simple lazieness of the setup; WHY THE **** DOES SHEPARD NOT REACT TO HIS DEATH." Seriously BioWare, surely a man that died and was ressurected would at least mention something. If there is an afterlife in this universe, why doesn't he mention that? If there isn't, well then why the hell is nothing said. Isn't it possible for Shep to be a Christian? Well then why does he not say either "My whole system of beliefs is wrong" or "Wow, there is a heaven guys, you should convert." If you really wanted to sidestep the issue you could have at least said; "I can't remember." But instead we are expected to believe Shepard had a two year nap. What I expect is Shepard grappling with existentialism, with how he percieves the universe after his death. Instead we get some throw away one liners and massive lazieness on the part of the writers.

I 100% agree. I think we need a cliche white light scene... and then shep at the pearly gates scene to prove once and for all that christianity is THE CORRECT religion (everyone else in the galaxy is indeed going to burn in hell...)... then after shep is brought back to life we need a 30 minute (minimum) discussion tree where Shep goes through a debate of "what is the meaning of life?"  "to be or not to be"  "science vs religion" etc. 

No more plot holes Bioware!  NO MORE PLOT HOLES!!!!

I am disapoint.  Big disapoint!

and this. this all teh way!!!!

[Inquisitor Recon]

This topic should really be end of line-ed.

[spam image removed]

As I said it would just made more sense if Shepard was only 99% dead and in some kind of a coma for two years. That way this whole can of worms would have been dodged, it would have been far more believable from a medical standpoint, and the the plot hole between ME1 and ME2 would have been somewhat smaller.

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 31 mai 2010 - 10:04 .