Table of Contents
I. S/S Warrior
II. DW Warrior
III. 2H Warrior
IV. Talent Burst Comparison
V. Auto Attack Comparison
I. S/S Warrior
The combat efficacy of the DEX Tank came up in another thread, so I decided to run some trials to see just how well it stacks up vs. alternative S/S builds. No mathematical theorycrafting here. All numbers derived from actual characters in game.
*Common*
Game: PC version 1.02a
Char: L24, HN, Champion / Berserker, HP / Stam: 428 / 165 (w/ sustains)
Sustains: Berserk, Rally, Shield Wall
Gear: Honnleath / BDA 1.0 / Champion's / Key / Lifegiver / Anduril / Magister Shield
Weapon: Rose Thorn (Dex), Veshaille (Str), No runes on either.
Enemies: RtO - Bann Loren's soldiers, Darkspawn up through Genlock Forgemaster (not to be confused with Forgemaster boss in the Dead Trenches)
General Notes:
* Despite what the tooltip says, Shield Wall does *not* reduce damage by 20%
* Despite the tooltip, all three hits from Overpower are criticals
* Despite the tooltip, Bash, Pummel, and Assault can crit on each swing
* Talents - Avg of 8 hits, Auto-Attack normal - Avg of 30 hits, Auto Attack crit - Avg of 5 hits.
* Due to small sample size, these numbers are probably off by some + / - 5%
* When utilizing a single melee weapon, 'Onscreen' damage does account for weapon speed
**Max DEX build**
Stats: Str - 43 (base:32), Dex - 89
ATT: 132
DEF: 166
Damage 'Onscreen': 79.1 (w/ Berserk)
Bash - High: 50, Low: 29, Avg : 40.63
Pummel - High: 172, Low: 128, Avg: 151.50
Overpower - High: 121, Low: 76, Avg: 102.50
Assault - High: 160, Low: 136, Avg: 148.38
Auto Attack - Normal Avg: 57.27, Critical Avg: 87.5
Notes:
** As shield attacks scale entirely with your STR stat, it was expected that the talent damage would not be good - and it isn't. See below for a comparison. Ever considered running a Dex Tank w/o Berserk? Subtract ~5 points off of Bash and Auto-Normal, ~7 off of Auto-Crit, and ~15 from Pummel, Overpower, and Assault. Yuck. Your high level, spellpower-pumped mage could probably out damage this build - with staff attacks.
** The silver lining here is that, in theory, due to a low STR stat, enemies should be able to more often pass the resistance checks of the shield attack's CC effects. I did not observe this. Bann Loren's Elite 2H, Hurlock Strider and Genlock Forgemaster all failed every check. This may not be the case however, when facing tougher Elites (Ogres, Golems) or Bosses.
** Auto-Attack with a dagger is, well, decent. In fact, when you consider that you can auto-attack twice in the time it takes to execute a shield attack and then factor in runes, poisons, and Flame and / or Frost Weapons, it's almost always better to simply auto-attack with this build as opposed to using talents, from a pure damage standpoint.
** Even if you wanted to 'Talent Spam' with this build, it ain't happenin'. You simply take too long to kill things to refresh your Stamina pool with Deathblow.
** A better strategy for this build (and the other two, to a lesser degree) would probably be to stack Health Regen gear (Cailan's Kit +5, Lifegiver +3, Berserk +1.5, Rose Thorn +1), run Blood Thirst constantly, and Auto-attack like a fiend.
** Defense is very good for this build. In fact, it's too good. In my experience, empirical evidence suggests that, in the absence of Stuns and Auto-Hit attacks, a DEF of 160 will render you *Unhittable* by even the toughest Bosses. Unfortunately, there aren't that many Tough Bosses in this game, and thus a defense score this high is, for the most part, overkill. The far more common 'whitey' will find you next to (if not totally) impossible to hit with ~140 DEF, with Elites falling somewhere in between, making this build 'Over-Dexed'.
** While having a defense this high may make you unhittable, it does not make you unkillable. Auto-hit attacks, including Ram, Overwhelm, and Scattershot (among many others) will completely bypass your Defense. Many high level warriors (incl. Cauthrien) will light up Perfect Striking if you take too long to kill them. You would need a defense in excess of 250 to remain unhittable in the face of Cauthrien + Perfect Striking. Morerover, while stunned (against which S/S has no immunity) your Defense score derived from your DEX statistic (in this case about half) goes out the window for the duration. Even better, while the attack portion of incoming Shield Pummels will miss (due to high def), the stun aspect will still attempt to apply. The point being that in all of these instances it is far better to have a strong attack than a strong defense.
** 50 / 50 Build **
Stats: Str - 66, Dex - 66
ATT: 132
DEF: 143
Damage 'Onscreen': 79.1 (w/ Berserk)
Bash - High: 61, Low: 53, Avg : 58.13
Pummel - High: 203, Low: 165, Avg: 182.83
Overpower - High: 179, Low: 113, Avg: 142.14
Assault - High: 187, Low: 142, Avg: 155.25
Auto Attack - Normal Avg: 54.87, Critical Avg: 88.0
Notes:
**Take some of the 'Over-Dex' and dump it into STR, sacrificing some the 'overkill' defense in order to increase shield attack power, while maintaining ATT rating and dagger damage.
** Even with the increased STR of this build, Rose Thorn is still superior to Veshaille
** Daggers (on PC) scale equally from STR and DEX, so the results for Assault and Auto-attack should be identical to that of the DEX build. Blame it on small sample size.
** Pummel is only showing a 17% increase over DEX partially due to the first of the 3 hits using the same dagger attack and partially, I'm sure, to SSS.
** Of the 'shield only' attacks, Bash gets a 30% bump and Overpower gains 28%. Shield attacks are starting to get interesting. Even a bad roll on Pummel will most likely out damage two auto attacks and Overpower is making it's presence felt. At least it's not an outright worse option than auto attack and combined with the CC effects would suggest regular use of Pummel and Overpower are warranted.
** Still problematic keeping your Stamina up with Deathblow though definitely better off than the pure Dex build.
** Defense rating of 143 is still very good. Whiteys will will find it next to impossible to get a hit in and Elites will have major difficulties. Bosses will get some shots in though defense is good enough that it can easily be supplemented with Shield Defense (+5 over Wall), Incense of Awareness (+10) or Warcry (effectively +10) if the situation calls for it.
** If an 'Unhittable Tank' is your goal, I see no reason not to go with a 50 / 50 vs a Max Dex build.
** Max STR Build **
Stats: Str - 100, Dex - 32 (26 base)
ATT: 132
DEF: 109
Damage 'Onscreen': 96.1 (w/ Berserk)
Bash - High: 99, Low: 76, Avg : 84.0
Pummel - High: 281, Low: 228, Avg: 251.0
Overpower - High: 220, Low: 170, Avg: 190.89
Assault - High: 272, Low: 212, Avg: 239.67
Auto Attack - Normal Avg: 86.72, Critical Avg: 141.33
Notes:
** Shield attacks are very strong, clearly outclassing those of the previous builds. It has been argued that a STR S/S is even on par, damage-wise, with a 2H. I happen to disagree - but it's close.
** Due to the increased damage from both Shield- and Auto attacks, stamina is easy to maintain by utilizing something similar to the following:
-Enemy 1: Shield Pummel --> Finish off with Auto-attack --> Regain stamina from Deathblow
-Enemy 2: Overpower --> Finish with Auto --> Deathblow...And so forth.
By the time you finish all four shield attacks, Pummel will be coming off of cooldown, ready to start the cycle over again if need be - and stamina will still be nearly full. Compare this to the DEX build who could rapid spam all four shield talents at an Elite - and still not get him much below half health.
** Did I mention the damage? Hoorah.
** Obviuosly, defense is less here, totaling a very average 109. A better build here would be to swap in Cailan's boots & gloves and to ditch Magister's Shield in favor of Spellward. This will drop defense down to a rather pedestrian 102...but it is now backed up with 30% Dodge. This, combined with the expeditious manner in which this character can dispatch opponents, makes for a very sturdy build.
So which build is the 'best'?
To answer that I'll quote that profound sage, Mel the cook on Alice, who once opined: "The best defense is a good offense"
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II. Dual Wield Warrior
Everybody knows DWs do a ton of damage. But exactly how much? And how do the various builds compare? Same deal as with the S/S data - Actual in-game damage measurements by various DW builds
*Common*
Game: PC ver. 1.02a
Char: L24, HN, Champion / Berserker, HP / Stam: 388 / 280 (w / sustains)
Sustains: Rally, Berserk
Gear: Honnleath / WC armor / Key / Lifegiver / Spellward / Anduril
Weapons: Rose / Edge, Veshaille / Rose, Veshaille / Starfang (no runes)
Enemies: RtO - Bann Loren's Soldiers, Darkspawn up through Genlock Forgemaster
*Note on Talents*
The in-game Tooltips are a little unclear (if not flat out wrong) in several instances...
DW Sweep: According to my data, both of these hits are actually criticals, despite the 'small number' damage floats.
Riposte: The first of the two hits is capable of crits.
Flurry: The first of the three hits is actually a double, one from each weapon. All four hits can crit.
Punisher: The first two hits are crit capable. The last critical hit is a double, one from each weapon.
Cripple: As stated, though appears to always hit with the main hand.
Whirlwind: Generates a unique attack roll for each hand, for each enemy. All hits are crit capable.
*General Notes*
* Talents - Min sample size: Avg of 8 hits, Auto-Attack normal - Avg of 30 hits.
* Due to small sample size, these numbers are probably off by some + / - 5%
* When dual wielding, 'Onscreen' damage does *not* account for speed buffs.
* DW Sweep and Whirlwind tracked for single target damage only.
* All builds had an ATT rating of at least 137. No misses occurred - with one exception
* As DW has Cripple, I did not track Auto-Attack crits. Auto Attack numbers are for non-crits only
* Did not run Momentum as it has no effect on talents.
*Starfang / Veshaille*
Stats: STR 87, DEX 45 (36 base)
ATT: 137
DEF: 95
Crit %: 10.9 / 9.1
Crit Modifier: +25%
Armor Pen: 9 / 8
'Onscreen' damage w/ Berserk: 65.4 / 64.2
DW Sweep - High: 206, Low: 152, Avg: 180.75, Hi / Lo Avg: 179.00
Whirlwind - High: 154, Low: 127, Avg: 135.67, Hi / Lo Avg: 140.50
Riposte - High: 189, Low: 150, Avg: 165.56, Hi / Lo Avg: 169.50
Flurry - High: 287, Low: 212, Avg: 248.38, Hi / Lo Avg: 249.50
Punisher - High: 348, Low: 278, Avg: 317.71, Hi / Lo Avg: 313.00
Cripple - High: 110, Low: 74, Avg: 94.50, Hi / Lo Avg: 92.00
Auto Attack - High: 72, Low: 53, Avg: 63.55, Hi / Lo Avg: 62.50
Notes:
* Attack rating is very good while defense is nothing to write home about.
* Lowest crit % and crit modifier of all three builds leading to more stable damage numbers.
* Momentum was not used - nor needed. Easily wiped out all enemies with Talents, with only the occassional single auto attack to finish one off. Regularly able to one-shot whities with Punisher and Flurry, and occassionaly with Sweep and Riposte.
* This build is probably more suited to being a 'Talent Spammer' (dual large damage) vs. 'Auto Attacker' (dual large speed)
* While not tested here, if utilizing 'Talent Spam' mode, there is no reason not to run Precise Striking at all times.
* Dual Striking *
For lack of a better place, I'll notate this here. While this was primarily a talent comparison, I did run a quick test of the Momentum + Dual Striking mode that many people appear to advocate.
Auto Attack w/ Dual Striking - High: 150, Low: 0, Avg: 71.86
Average auto attack damage is up 11.5% (actually less as non- DS can crit) over non-Dual Stike. But the real story here is how that damage was arrived at. Dual Striking is currently bugged in that it often generates an attack animation without an associated attack roll, ie an automatic miss. Just how often? In a small sample sized test, I tracked 50 consecutive swings and got the following:
14 outright misses (28%)
12 single damage floats (24%)
24 double damage floats (48%)
From a mathematical DPS standpoint DS looks ok, but when you factor in crits and stamina cost the small advantage disappears. Moreover, in my opinion that many misses is simply unacceptable. Even giving full credit to the single-float hits, you're looking at a 72% To-Hit rate - from a character that was otherwise hitting 100% of the time. All too often it could lead to the difference between say, a dead Ogre and a chain Ram situation or a dead Emissary and standing there with Crushing Prison stuck on you. In fact, here's two quick play by plays during the encounter vs. the Emissary down by the Ballistas:
With DS + Momentum: Riposte (only Talent used), miss, single hit, miss, Emissary wakes up, (Crushing Prison), (Heal), (Various buffs & staff bolts), CP wears off, Health Pot, double hit, miss, (Curse of Mortality) double hit, dead emissary. Only a hastily applied Spirit Balm allowed me to survive CoM.
Reload, W/ Momentum only: Riposte, hit, hit, hit, dead emissary.
Yet another instance where DPS doesn't tell the whole story...
*Veshaille / Rose*
Stats: 93 STR / 38 DEX (base 30)
ATT: 137
DEF: 88
Crit%: 14.1 / 17.3
Crit Modifier: 55%
Armor Pen: 6 / 10
'Onscreen damage w/ Berserk: 66.6 / 47.3
DW Sweep - High: 187, Low: 133, Avg: 166.70, Hi / Lo Avg: 160.00
Whirlwind - High: 177, Low: 98, Avg: 128.60, Hi / Lo Avg: 137.50
Riposte - High: 191, Low: 125, Avg: 161.78, Hi / Lo Avg: 158.00
Flurry - High: 323, Low: 210, Avg: 244.71, Hi / Lo Avg: 266.50
Punisher - High: 375, Low: 247, Avg: 318.38, Hi / Lo Avg: 311.00
Cripple - High: 131, Low: 77, Avg: 110.11, Hi / Lo Avg: 104.00
Auto Attack - High: 71, Low: 41, Avg: 55.13, Hi / Lo Avg: 56.00
Notes:
* Again, very good ATT rating but slightly worse DEF than Sw / Ax. At this level of defense, expect even trash mobs to hit you ~50% of the time.
* Also again, Momentum was not, in any way, needed.
* Possibly very wide variance in hit damage: you could get a bad roll on a normal dagger attack for 40...or a good roll on a main hand crit for 140.
* Very high weapon cost at 279gp. May create party loadout issues as this one character is hogging up the game's best large weapon (arguably) and the best dagger (clearly).
* Due to small sample size, its difficult to say if this build or sw / ax is doing more damage. Only Sweep is showing any significant difference. Ax / Dag of course, will enjoy slightly better scaling of runes. Suffice to say, both are very strong on offense.
* My equipment / Talent preference for this build would be thus: Vesh / Rose / WC armor / Cailan's boots & Gloves and then run Precise Striking and Blood Thirst, with your Bard running SoC. By ~ Clvl 20 you would be looking at ~50% crit chance and +70% crit damage, with Cailan's Boots providing some badly needed +% Dodge. Though you may find that by using this setup the following equation becomes true:
Bloodthirst + Bad Defense = Healbot Mage required. YMMV.
* Rose / Edge *
Stats: 42 STR (34 base) / 87 DEX
ATT: 140
DEF: 137
Crit%: 15.3 / 15.0
Crit Modifier: 45%
Armor Pen: 10 / 9
'Onscreen' damage w / Berserk: 52.0 / 51.5
DW Sweep - High: 158, Low: 143, Avg: 149.30, Hi / Lo Avg: 150.50
Whirlwind - High: 117, Low: 93, Avg: 102.25, Hi / Lo Avg: 105.00
Riposte - High: 144, Low: 110, Avg: 131.30, Hi / Lo Avg: 122.00
Flurry - High: 276, Low: 194, Avg: 230.00, Hi / Lo Avg: 235.00
Punisher - High: 272, Low: 209, Avg: 254.00, Hi / Lo Avg: 240.50
Cripple - High: 87, Low: 66, Avg: 75.44, Hi / Lo Avg: 76.50
Auto Attack - High: 58, Low: 44, Avg: 50.95, Hi / Lo Avg: 51.00
Notes:
* No big surprise the damage is less than the other builds...but it's closer than I thought. Sweep, Flurry, and Punisher in particular are still very strong.
* Goes without saying that the faster dagger attacks will scale better with runes, poisons and buffs.
* During the test most enemies were dispatched solely with Talents, though a few more auto attacks were required to finish enemies off. While you can still go 'Talent Spam' mode, with this build I'd be more inclined to run Momentum and throw Talents out as needed.
* Can also be setup for 'Max Crit' mode as mentioned above. In that instance, Duncan's dagger may be the better offhand weapon. It's actually easier to run Bloodthirst here due to much better defense.
* Defense, unlike the other two builds is quite good at 137. Check the notes for the 50/50 S/S above for the capabilities of this defense level. If the situation calls for it, you can easily reach the 'magic 160' defense by utilizing some of the following: Felon's Coat (+15!), Diligence boots (+6), Magister's Shield / Mark of Vigilence(+6) or Warcry (+10 effective). 'Unhittable' and good on offense. Very effective build. It could even be argued that this build makes for an effective 'Tank' (if your'e into that), compensating somewhat for it's lack of stun / knowndown immunity with the ability to kill stuff real fast.
Instead of attempting to declare a 'Best' build, I'll notate a few (heavily biased) thoughts on the various DW talents...
DW Sweep:
A double crit to every critter in front of you, costs only 20 stamina, and has a 15 sec cooldown? Absolutely insane. Admitedly, it can be a little wonky with who it decides to hit (sometimes only a single float to the guys on the periphery, sometimes completely misses the guy right in front of you (didn't occur in test, however)) but that said, feel free to spam with great prejudice. As to the damage, I'm not exactly sure what's going on here. Sweep for the Dag / Dag and Axe / Sw was almost (but not quite) double the average damage from Cripple, but this was not the case for the Ax / Dag. Perhaps it's a crit minus some modifier or other?
Edit: Cripple hits with the main hand (which is much stronger for the Ax / Dag) leading to higher than average Cripple score. The average crit of both hands is probably more like ~85 - 90, in which case the data makes more sense.
Edit #2: DW Sweep hits with a crit-like 1.5 damage multiplier, but as it is not an actual crit, it is not further multiplied by + crit damage gear. Ice cold beer to Beancounter501 for the info.
Flurry:
Four quick hits, each crit capable, with only a 20 sec. cooldown. Use often.
Whirlwind:
Possibly a flameworthy statement, but I don't find Whirlwind all that impressive, especially once you factor in cost and cooldown. I'm sure from a 'DPS' standpoint it looks awesome: You could do 125 damage to, like, eight guys! That's 1000 damage! From one Talent! That's all well and good, but did you kill anyone? Stun them? Knock them down? Otherwise debuff? No, no, no and no. So you are still surrounded by eight guys, all of whom are attacking you, and now you're out 40+ stamina because Deathblow didn't kick in. Not a terrible Talent by any means but, at the same time, certainly not something I'm going to use on a regular basis. Perhaps my soloist tendencies are showing here - I often find the 'surrounded by eight guys' tactic to be sub-optimal.
Dual Striking:
No go. See above.
Riposte:
While doing less damage than some of the other Talents, two quick hits and a stun are very useful. Immediately taking an enemy out of the fight is never a bad tactic. Absolute gold vs. mage types. Due to it's fast 'cast' it's extremely useful for interupting incoming Shield Pummels. Can't say enough.
Cripple:
By and large, if you're not smashing ice sculpture that Morrigan has created, this is rarely worth a mouseclick. Due to the fact that it always hits with the main hand, it's a bit more interesting to the Ax / Dag with it's big crit modifier bonus. And it's surprisingly expensive considering how little it does.
Punisher:
Good: Big damage, big debuff, knockdown, big damage, bonus points for the cool name, big damage.
Not so good: Expensive, long cooldown (you could Flurry twice and Sweep nearly thrice in the same interval), debuff isn't that big of a deal because your target is now (most likely)dead - "Hey, look at that dead guy: he's debuffed!", same deal with knockdown, knockdown also comes at the very end of a slow animation making it inadequate for interuption.
All that said, Punisher is still awesome.
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III. 2H Warrior
The purpose for this test here is twofold:
1) Test the efficacy of various weapons for the STR builds
2) Determine how much damage you're giving up by going with a 'Dex Tank' iteration
*Common*
Game: PC Ver. 1.02a
Char: Lvl 24, HN, Berserker / Champion, HP: 378
Sustains: Indomitable, Powerful Swings, Precise Striking, Berserk (Rally not used for test)
Gear: Honnleath, Evon, Diligence, Anduril, Spellward, Key, Lifegiver
Weapons: CGM, Starfang, Maetashear
Enemies: RtO, Bann Loren's soldiers, Darkspawn through Forgemaster
*Notes on Talents*
Shattering Blows: Currently broken and does nothing
Mighty Blow: No 'slow' effect
2H Str: Armor Pen. bonus seems to be passive, not reflected on char sheet
Sunders: Double swing, both hits crit capable
2H Sweep: ~330 degree radial, crit capable
First, the STR build weapon comparison in an effort to answer the CGM vs. Starfang debate. Notes to follow all three. Adjusted Armor Penetration is listed to account for the 2H Strength bonus not showing onscreen. 2H Sweep was not tracked here. Utilize the numbers for Might Blow or auto normal times no. of enemies
*CGM*
Stats: 103 Str, 24 Dex
ATT: 125
DEF: 60
Stam: 225 (w/ Sustains)
Crit%: 18.3
Armor Pen: 18
Adj Armor Pen: 22.5
'Onscreen' damage w/ Berserk: 95.0
Sunders - High: 301, Low: 211, Avg: 244.71
MB / CS - High: 178, Low: 141, Avg: 154.55
Auto Normal - High: 134, Low: 104, Avg: 120.00
Cumulative: 519.26
*Starfang*
Stats: 106 Str, 24 Dex
ATT: 134
DEF: 60
Stam: 150 (w/ sustains)
Crit %: 20.05
Armor Pen: 11
Adj Armor Pen: 13.75
'Onscreen' damage w / Berserk: 92.5
Sunders - High: 316, Low: 202, Avg: 241.89
MB / CS - High: 177, Low: 135, Avg: 157.00
Auto Normal - High: 127, Low: 97, Avg: 112.63
Cumulative: 511.52
*Maetashear*
Stats: 103 Str, 23 Dex
ATT: 124
DEF: 59
Stam: 150 (w/ sustains)
Crit %: 27.00
Armor Pen: 7
Adj Armor Pen: 8.75
'Onscreen' damage w/ Berserk: 84.6
Sunders - High: 300, Low: 203, Avg: 239.81
MB / CS - High: 160, Low: 130, Avg: 144.75
Auto Normal - High: 119, Low: 98, Avg: 108.31
Cumulative: 492.87
Notes:
** Damage from CGM and Starfang is pretty much a tossup. Perhaps a very slight advantage to CGM. Bear in mind that the character tested here is Lvl 24 with 100+ STR. CGM has a 1.25 vs 1.10 STR scaling advantage. As such, at lower character levels Starfang will outdamage CGM. Maetashear is noticably trailing yet remains quite respectable.
** CGM's ATT rating is a little on the low side for a Lvl 24 char, possibly causing problems vs. tough melee opponents. However, CGM's huge stamina bonus will enable you to run Rally to offset Starfang's ATT advantage and still allow for a larger stamina pool. Assuming, of course, you're using the Champion Spec.
** Starfang's 13.75 armor penetration is quite good vs. most enemies, but will experience some damage dropoff against tough melee opponents like Revenants, Cauthrien, Stone Golems, etc. with Sunder Armor being the obvious workaround. On the other hand CGM, with the exception of the High Dragons and Broodmother, will completely bypass all enemy AC in the game, even w/o Sunder.
** Of the three weapons tested here, Maetashear has the slowest swing combined with the lowest damage, ATT rating, and Armor pen. So why is this Axe interesting? It has a +10% / +7% crit chance bonus over CGM and Starfang respectively. If going for a 'Max Crit' build (see DW notes for details) this is probably your weapon of choice.
** General 2H STR note: While ATT numbers are good, DEF for all three builds here is, in a word, putrid. A rare event indeed if Bosses or Elites miss an attack against you, with even trash mobs connecting at a 60-70% rate. Accumulating +% Dodge items like, Spellward, Evon, or Cailan's Boots would be a good idea. And it's not just the damage alone you have to deal with due to poor defense, but the debuffs as well. Expect to get Pinned, Crippled, Sundered and Punished with regularity. For the most part, your AC is the only thing between you and screaming death, and getting Shattered and Sundered will make things interesting in a hurry. Running a Hale rune is probably in your best interest.
*2H Dex Tank*
(note gear / sustain changes from other 2H builds)
Stats: 89 Dex, 44 Str (36 base)
Gear: CGM, Honnleath, Felon, Diligence, Anduril, Spellward, Key, Lifegiver
Sustains: Indomitable, Rally, Precise Striking, Berserk
ATT: 143
DEF: 149
Stam: 205 (w/ Sustains)
Crit %: 18.3
Adj Armor pen: 22.5
'Onscreen' damage w/ Berserk: 54.0
Sunders - High: 165, Low: 129, Avg: 141.95
MB / CS - High: 116, Low: 71, Avg: 88.92
Auto normal - High: 71, Low: 61, Avg: 68.44
Cumulative: 299.31
Notes:
** As compared to the CGM / STR build, damage is off by ~ 43%. Not good
** Rally was used here and Powerful Swings was not in order to maximize DEF.
** A base Str of 36 means that Destroyer's questionable bonus was not available.
** Went with Spellward here as the bad damage output requires more talents to dispatch enemies.
** DEF of 149 is very good though still hittable by bosses. This DEF score is, however predicated upon your 2H wearing Felon's Coat - a decision with which your Rogue may not be too pleased. In addition, by using Felon's, AC is only 32 which is fairly low for a build whose main job is to be a meatshield...
** As damage is already so low, this build may as well go ahead and use Nug Crusher for the extra DEF and stamina.
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IV. Talent Burst Comparison
Collate the top four damaging talents from all previous builds in order to compare 'Burst' ability. This is a damage only comparison. No debuffs are taken into consideration. The talents in this comparison are as follows:
S/S: Bash, Pummel, Overpower, Assault
DW: Punisher, Flurry, DW Sweep (single target), Riposte
2H: Sunder Arms, Sunder Armor, Mighty Blow, Critical Strike
Bear in mind some of the differences in the previous tests:
S/S: Is using BDA 1.0 (+3 Str)
DW: Is using WC (+15% crit damage)
2H: Is using Precise Striking (+14.5% crit chance)
And no, I'm not going to go back and retest everything in similar gear
DW Ax / Sw: 912.40
DW Ax /Dag: 891.57
2H Str CGM: 798.52
S/S Str Ax: 765.56
DW Dex/Dag : 764.60
S/S 50/50 Dag: 538.35
2H Dex CGM: 461.74
S/S Dex Dag: 447.51
** So much for 2H being the best talent spammer. Granted DW was using WC (+15% crit damage) but the advantage is mostly offset by 2H using Precise Striking (+14.5% crit chance)
** S/S Str is dangerously close to 2H...w/o the crit bonus from Precise Striking
** Caveat: Vs. the very few heavily armored opponentsin this game, the 2H using CGM will show little to no damage reduction due to massive armor pen. and/or Sunder Armor, whereas the DW and S/S builds will lose ~100 from the above numbers
** Ugly showing by 2H Dex. This build is probably best off using stamina for CC (Pommel, Sweep, Warcry) and letting other party members actually kill things.
** Vomit inducing results for S/S Dex....and that's with Rose Thorn's +30% crit damage bonus. This build will be even more cringe-worthy until you scrounge the cash for RT.
** Solid showing by DW dagger build...especially considering the DEF score. More than 200 pts ahead of the next best DEF build (50/50)
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V. Auto Attack Comparison
Most of the tests here are having to do primarily with talents, but as I had the numbers I figured I'd run an auto attack comparison as well. All I've done here is to take every builds 'Auto Normal' score and multiply by number of attacks in an 11 second interval. Why 11 seconds? I'm making the assumption that the average Talent Animation has a duration of 2.75 seconds and the Talent Burst section was comparing 4 Talents. This is simply to roughly illustrate how each build's auto attack compares to each other relative to attack speed.
Swing times:
2H Axe: 2.6
Maul: 2.55
2H SW: 2.5
Single Axe: 1.9
Single Dag: 1.5
DW Sw / Ax: 1.5
DW Ax /Dag: 1.2
DW Dag/Dag: 1.0
Multiply by .7 when using Momentum. While not considered here, Multiply by 1.1 when using Precise Striking.
2H Dex Maul: 294.98
S/S Dag: 419.79
2H Str Axe: 458.15
DW Ax / Sw: 465.82
2H Str Sw: 495.57
S/S Axe: 502.11
DW Ax / Dag: 505.54
2H Str Maul: 517.20
DW Dex Dag: 560.45
***w / Momentum***
DW Ax / Sw: 666.00
DW Ax / Dag: 722.20
DW Dag / Dag: 800.43
** It bears repeating: Momentum is really good! Get it ASAP.
** Even unruned, uncritted, and unbuffed the Dag / Dag build is already out damaging it's talents
** 2H has the reputation of having a poor auto attack. It doesn't look too bad here. Scaling is another matter...
** 2H Dex however, totally blows
Now lets add 3x GM runes to the mix and take a look at scaling. The DW dag/dag only gets 2.5 as 'Edge' only has 2 rune slots.
2H Dex Maul: 359.63
2H Str Axe: 521.60
S/S Dex Dag: 529.74
2H Str Sw: 561.57
DW Sw/Ax: 575.77
2H Str Maul: 581.85
S/S Str Axe: 588.96
DW Ax/Dag: 643.09
DW Dag/Dag: 725.45
***w / Momentum***
DW Sw/Ax: 823.20
DW Ax/Dag: 918.70
DW Dag/Dag 996.81
** Dag / Dag is starting to pull away, even w/o Momentum. With Momentum, it's out damaging every other build - Auto or Talents. And it hasn't even scored a crit yet...
** Ax / Dag, w/ Momentum & Runes is probably out damaging it's Talents. The Talent numbers above reflect criticals. whereas the Auto numbers do not. And this build has a pretty huge crit damage bonus.
** S/S Dag is starting to look respectable, out damaging it's talents.
** 2H Dex still sucks
Other than those few weirdos who Solo (like me), most people are going to have a mage in the party. So lets add Flame Blade on top of your runes.
2H Dex Maul: 444.23
2H Str Axe: 606.20
2H Str Sw: 649.57
2H Str Maul: 668.05
S/S Dex Dag: 676.34
S/S Str Axe: 704.76
DW Sw/Ax: 722.37
DW Ax/Dag: 826.49
DW Dag/Dag: 945.45
***w / Momentum***
DW Sw/Ax: 1032.80
DW Ax/Dag: 1180.70
DW Dag/Dag: 1311.01
** Apparently fast Dagger attacks scale extremely well with buffs.
DW Dagger is totally outclassing everything and the S/S Dagger is only slightly behind S/S Axe as the most powerful Single weapon auto attack. Impressive. And don't forget the DEF level. Rogue players are saying "Yeah, tell me something I didn't know"** And these are pretty light buffs. 3x GM + Flame Blade is adding +35 damage per swing. If you wanted to get crazy, you could have your other mage run Frost Weapons and use a crapload of Poisons for another 60+ damage per swing. And then there's Swift Salve...
** It would appear that Rose Thorn is THE best weapon in the game. It's massive crit bonus allows the Ax/Dag build to hang with Ax/Sw for the Talent lead and it's attack speed enables Ax/Dag to blow away Dual large when auto attacking. Now all you have to do is wrestle it away from your Rogue...
** Even with runes and buffs, the 2H is still hanging in there with the other single weapons, though the trend is obvious - the more buffs you add, the more it will fall behind.
** Up until this very moment, I would have said it was impossible for something to suck and to blow at exactly the same time. The 2H Dex has proven me wrong. The worst Talents and the worst auto attack. I mean, Indomitable is a pretty sweet ability, but it's not that good. Why would anyone inflict this build upon themselves? It's the 21st Century version of the Hair Shirt.
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Modifié par Random70, 14 septembre 2010 - 07:02 .
Retour en haut
On a more serious note.... with runes, that dagger build only needs 13 seconds to deal 700 damage, in theory. The sword build can do it in around 12. How long does it take to chain all four abilities together? I'm guessing about around 12 seconds, off-hand, since overpower, assault, and pummel all seem to take a few seconds to complete. Add time to that if your warrior has to walk forward again to re-engage, which does happen sometimes.
