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[beancounter501]

@Khavous - you have to take some of this theory crafting with a grain of salt. Yes, in theory they can do single target DPS close to a 2 Hand Warrior. But in reality they will never be as damaging as a 2 Hand Warrior, mainly because they have no AOE attack and they still get hit with a lot of stuns and even knockdowns. They are only immune to direct knockdown attacks like Shield Bash, they are not immune to knockdowns from Fireball. A 2 Hand Warrior is immune to both. Theory crafting is always under perfect conditions. But crap happens in the middle of the battle - getting hit with a dirty fighting means you are out of commission while the rest of the party is racking up kills. There is only so much available "dmg to do" in a battle, so it does not matter if you can out DPS everyone else if you spend every battle stunned for a while.



I tracked detailed damage numbers by zone in my four Warrior party composed of two 2 Hand Warriors, a Str Dual Weld and a Str S&S. The Str S&S was almost always last. Once or twice he beat the Dual Weld - mainly where the Dual Weld hit some bad luck and was stunned/knockdown a ton. He never beat either two hand warrior. The normal damage ranking went the Main 2 Hand, Alistar as Dual Weld, Sten as Two Hand and dead last was Oghren as S&S.



But don't let me discourage you - a Str S&S is still very powerful. Very good damage and very good defense/armor. I don't think Oghren every died. Except for one or two fights that party play through was by far the easiest. So that should tell you something.

[Khavos]

beancounter501 wrote...
I tracked detailed damage numbers by zone in my four Warrior party composed of two 2 Hand Warriors, a Str Dual Weld and a Str S&S. The Str S&S was almost always last. Once or twice he beat the Dual Weld - mainly where the Dual Weld hit some bad luck and was stunned/knockdown a ton. He never beat either two hand warrior. The normal damage ranking went the Main 2 Hand, Alistar as Dual Weld, Sten as Two Hand and dead last was Oghren as S&S.

But don't let me discourage you - a Str S&S is still very powerful. Very good damage and very good defense/armor. I don't think Oghren every died. Except for one or two fights that party play through was by far the easiest. So that should tell you something.

I actually read through that thread of yours, and the numbers were definitely interesting.  However, my question would be...wouldn't the PC always be out-damaging the other warriors no matter if he was S&S, 2H, or DW?  The best gear tends to go to your own character, after all, or at least mine does, and then there's the issue of the PC usually being the first into combat.  I at least spend the most time micromanaging my character, so I know I'm more efficient than a Tactics set-up at applying talents at the right time and whatnot.  

I'm coming off a DW playthrough on Hard that was just way too easy, and simply worried that I spoiled myself with all that damage.  Trying to decide between S&S and 2H for my Nightmare run.  

[beancounter501]

In that playthrough I tried to spread the good gear out - but no mistake about it the main got Starfang early on which really boosted his damage numbers for a big part of the game. Also, I tend to lead with my main and the lead character almost always gets extra hits compared to every one else.



However, there were two 2 Hand Warriors in that party - and the second one with more "normal" gear still outdamaged the S&S constantly. He even beat the Dual weld every now and then. But when it comes to total party damage output the S&S is just hurting for an AOE attack. It is hard to make up the damage numbers when 2 Hand and Dual Weld are geting multi target hits for 300 to 500 points of dmg each battle.



But my best advice to you is play whatever build you find most enjoyable. Any of three Str based Warrior classes are strong. When I first got the game I went back and forth between a S&S and a 2 Hand.

[Khavos]

beancounter501 wrote...

But my best advice to you is play whatever build you find most enjoyable. Any of three Str based Warrior classes are strong. When I first got the game I went back and forth between a S&S and a 2 Hand.

Eh.  My trouble is the history nerd in me likes S&S as the far and away most realistic option, but I do find its lack of AoE and the paucity of its active attack talents to begin with a little boring.  I think I'll probably have to go 2H.  

[soteria]

In addition to the limits of theorycrafting, I'll also point out that the numbers don't show the S&S build as that close in the first place. Because the S&S talents are, by and large, slower, their actual DPS is lower, regardless of the fact that they do competitive damage per use. They also have fewer talents to use, and long cooldowns to boot.

And, just for the sake of completion, the 2h numbers.  I don't have damage numbers for 2h sweep, so I didn't run them (though I assume it's just an auto-attack applied to all enemies in range).  I also didn't bother with 2h axe because it's an inferior weapon and the build is the same anyway.  IMO, the sword and maul numbers are close enough to just go with one, but hey, why not do both.

**Starfang**
Sunders -      High: 316, Low: 202, Avg: 241.89    91.3
MB -       High: 177, Low: 135, Avg: 157.00    74.8
CS -       High: 177, Low: 135, Avg: 157.00    73.0

Auto-attack damage (over 11 seconds)
2H Str Sw:        495.57   45.0  unbuffed
2H Str Sw:        561.57   51.1  GM runes
2H Str Sw:        649.57   59.1  runes + flaming weapons

**CGM**
Sunders -         High: 301, Low: 211, Avg: 244.71    92.3
MB -          High: 178, Low: 141, Avg: 154.55    73.6
CS -          High: 178, Low: 141, Avg: 154.55    71.9

Auto-attack damage (over 11 seconds)
2H Str Maul:     517.20    47.0  unbuffed
2H Str Maul:     581.85    52.3  GM runes
2H Str Maul:     668.05    60.7  runes + flaming weapons

And yes, Sunder Arms/Sunder armor are worth using even while hasted, but CS/MB are not.

Modifié par soteria, 04 août 2010 - 10:24 .

[soteria]

The answer to the first question should be obvious: whatever you darned well please. As for the second, other than personal taste, there's no real theorycraft or powergaming reason to take any points in will.

[DWSmiley]

All 2handers are fragile early. But by the time they get sweep + death blow they will also have a good attack rating and then they are killing machines.

[Elhanan]

vilnii wrote...

Take Sten for example...even with heavy armor the fellow is constantly owned by a pack of wolves or a darkspawn mob

I have not figured out why he dies so easily.

Has anyone solved the Sten survivability issue? or are all 2-Handers like that

I clear out all the Threaten, Taunt, and like AI from tactics, and play from there. Guess I am either too old to know about agro being something else other than farming , or too new to the MMO tactics being introduced into games. Don't use 'em; don't need 'em..

But Sten still dies quickly. Might be all those cookies.....

[liolio]

Great thread! I bookmarked it in an instant



I still enjoy my two handed but it's too bad Bioware think about integrating two handed weapons using dex as the modifier (like poles/staffs in sacred 2 for example).

[SuicidalBaby]

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