68 réponses à ce sujet

[phaonica]

I've always been curious about what I call "setting as a character" in video games, especially the "save the world" type of game. If you do not care about the world, why bother to save it? In the same way that the romances invest your character's heart into certain decisions, Ferelden is itself a character that your character's heart may or may not become invested in. So how do you think Ferelden sizes up as a "romanceable character"?

In the short time that I've been on these boards, I can't count the number of times I've seen people claim of their characters "s/he didn't really care about Ferelden". In addition to that, a lot of players seem to take the stance, that if Ferelden must fall in order to stop the Blight, then so be it.

Why is this, do you think? Is it all Warden influence? Is Ferelden presented as an unlikeable character? Or do the character romances overshadow any relationship one might have with Ferelden? Are there too many game design decisions that bias a character against caring, or to say it another way, do you feel like your characters are more 'in character' when they don't care as much about Ferelden? Or do you have one character that was super-responsible and then other, more fun characters, who do whatever they like? Do you think the game would be better or worse if the game had given more incentive to care about Ferelden as a sovereign nation?

[edited for formatting]

Modifié par phaonica, 30 mai 2010 - 07:44 .

[Sarah1281]

Several of my characters (like my DN , DC, and my DE) didn't give a damn about Ferelden but they knew that if Ferelden fell so would their homes and while my DC didn't actually care about Orzammar she didn't want Rica to die so she went along with that whole GW thing.

Edit: My HN loved Ferelden and couldn't bear to see it destroyed so that's why she saved it since everyone she cared about was dead. So what if she was a GW? She was a Teyrn's daughter first and she had an obligation.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 30 mai 2010 - 08:01 .

[phaonica]

From a player perspective, if the game is about saving the world, and the world is presented as boring or hateful, then I wonder why I am bothering to save it (in other words, why play the game at all). For me, a main character with a survivalist attitude is not enough. Just because that character has no choice that their world is unlikable, I as a player can turn the game off and find another one.



When players say their character didn't care about Ferelden, perhaps they are referring specifically to the Human aspect of the setting, and not the country as a whole?

[Brockololly]

I think at least for me, a big part of the problem is that never when I was playing the game did I think I actually would fail in killing the Archdemon and ending the Blight. So long as you complete the game, the outcome of defeating the Blight seemed rather certain. So in the end, nothing about Ferelden really gave my PC much reason to give a damn about it other than its the Grey Warden's duty and all that.

I was much more concerned and engaged with the well being of the companions and I actually cared whether they lived and died. But like Lothering getting destroyed or things like that- didn't care too much because there wasn't anything that tied my character there.

phaonica wrote...

When players say their character didn't
care about Ferelden, perhaps they are referring specifically to the
Human aspect of the setting, and not the country as a whole?

I'd agree- you care about the characters, so if a NPC you liked was stuck in Lothering or something and they got killed when the Blight rolled in, then you might feel a bit more involved. As for the actual land itself getting eaten up by the Blight- you really don't care too much because its not like within the game you'll ever have to deal with rebuilding or anything like that. I mean as a Cousland, I felt more animosity towards Howe than the Archdemon- I think that kind of gets towards having villains connected to the PC though too.

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 mai 2010 - 08:32 .

[Sarah1281]

When players say their character didn't care about Ferelden, perhaps they are referring specifically to the Human aspect of the setting, and not the country as a whole?

My Dalish lived in Ferelden but did not consider themselves or their clan a part of it. My dwarves lived in Orzammar which is its own kingdom and not a part of Ferelden. They didn't care about the country but allowing the Blight to ravage it would threaten their clan and Orzammar. It's like how the Orlesians didn't really care what happened to Ferelden but wanted to stop the Blight before it reached Orlais.

[phaonica]

So "Ferelden as a whole" doesn't really exist, so much as there are a handful of mini-settings. And our characters generally find themselves completely willing to "sacrifice" one portion of the country to save their own portion, or perhaps the remaining portions? In other words, in the same way that a Human PC can say "I don't care what happens to Orzammar later, so long as I get its armies now," a Dwarf or Dalish PC would easily have that same attitude about Ferelden.

Modifié par phaonica, 30 mai 2010 - 09:07 .

[thegreateski]

Hell, my (failing to be) evil chancellor mage is all about the Ferelden glory. If he has his way then Ferelden will be top dog.





Heh . . . dog.

[mariaklob]

phaonica wrote...

So "Ferelden as a whole" doesn't really exist, so much as there are a handful of mini-settings. And our characters generally find themselves completely willing to "sacrifice" one portion of the country to save their own portion, or perhaps the remaining portions?

That has been my impression. None of the origin stories really get you to care for much more than your immediate social setting. It doesn't help that up through Ostagar, most large structures you see are Tevinter ruins - way to make me feel like today's society is relevant, guys.

On the other hand, I was surrounded throughout the game by people who were passionate about saving Ferelden, and over time that wore off on me. Part of it was going to see every corner of the land myself. Part of it was hearing from every blessed stubborn person I met that this land wouldn't go down without a fight.

Over time you do get a definite feeling for the human land of Ferelden - its politics, its dogs, its fierce independence. I came to care for it, but it was a feeling that snuck in when I wasn't looking, rather than something my character started with.

[phaonica]

mariaklob wrote...

On the other hand, I was surrounded throughout the game by people who were passionate about saving Ferelden, and over time that wore off on me.

I got the impression that the Dwarves were interested in saving the Dwarves, the Dalish were interested in saving the Dalish, and the Humans were interested in saving the Humans, but I rarely felt that any of the NPC characters were interested in saving the "kingdom as a whole". I barely got that impression from my companions, either. They were either of the Warden creed (get your armies despite politics), or stick around and try to get the Dark Ritual done. It can be argued that Alistair cared about the whole, but either way, he's still one out of many, many who did not.

Part of it was going to see every corner of the land myself. Part of it was hearing from every blessed stubborn person I met that this land wouldn't go down without a fight.

As a player and a character, I did the same thing. Through the ups and downs of each culture, I saw something worth preserving and saving. There is not a single "portion" of the kingdom that my character would say that she didnt' care about. However, this is one character among many, and I do think that the game seems to bias your characters against this attitude. Even the people saying they won't go down without a fight still seem to only be concerned about their portion of it.

[Sarah1281]

When people say 'Ferelden' they pretty much mean the human kingdom. The dwarves aren't actaully a part of Ferelden since they have their own sovereign state recognized by other sovereign states as such. The Dalish don't have their own land but just wander around as travellers but also don't consider themselves part of Ferelden. The mages are kind of part of Ferelden but they're so isolated that they really have no patriotism (Wynne suggesting giving the nation back to Orlais for peace, for instance). When these people talk about saving Ferelden they mean Highever, they mean Gwaren, they mean Redcliffe, ect. The mages have their own special categories, the Dalish are widely regarded as a myth, and the dwarves have have their own country.

[phaonica]

It seems that the only reason Ferelden seems more significant to the story is because it's under the most immediate threat, and Loghain refused to allow it to be potentially sacrificed for the sake of the other portions. One could argue that Loghain had no right to do this, however because I find it hard to believe that the Fereldens/Humans had anyone but their own interests in mind, given all that we've said before in this thread, and I sincerely doubt that the Fereldens were perfectly willing to sacrifice their portions for the others, it seems that it is either by contradiction or cowardice or stupidity that the Fereldens seem to so easily trust Orlais to help them.

[Merilsell]

Sarah1281 wrote...

When players say their character didn't care about Ferelden, perhaps they are referring specifically to the Human aspect of the setting, and not the country as a whole?

My Dalish lived in Ferelden but did not consider themselves or their clan a part of it. My dwarves lived in Orzammar which is its own kingdom and not a part of Ferelden. They didn't care about the country but allowing the Blight to ravage it would threaten their clan and Orzammar.

This.

My Dalish feels foreign in the human world --how she calls it -- and only agrees to save it, because she wants her clan to have a place to return to. She couldn't care less about the humans, who were keeping her calling a knife-ear or were looking down at her for being an elf. If Alistair wouldn't have brought up the argument about her clan at the beginning of their journey, she would have sported him the finger, wished him good luck with the task and left Ferelden for good to rot.

Cuz what have the humans ever done for her? Except to enslave her kind and rob their homeland? Twice? So seeing a sense in helping them isn't exactly what my Mahariel occurred then. And rightfully so.

[thegreateski]

phaonica wrote...
it seems that it is either by contradiction or cowardice or stupidity that the Fereldens seem to so easily trust Orlais to help them.

Stupidity. The stupidity of one man caused this entire mess.

Cailan invited them . . . and we all know what Cailan is like.

[Herr Uhl]

thegreateski wrote...

phaonica wrote...
it seems that it is either by contradiction or cowardice or stupidity that the Fereldens seem to so easily trust Orlais to help them.

Stupidity. The stupidity of one man caused this entire mess.

Cailan invited them . . . and we all know what Cailan is like.

Glorious!

[thegreateski]

"I get to ride into battle with the Grey Wardens! What could possibly go wrong? It'll be GLORIOUS!"



*Cailan does a hair toss*

[Herr Uhl]

Cue fangirl squee.

[soignee]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Cue fangirl squee.

...for the ogre.

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Cue fangirl squee.

...for the ogre.

Nah, from his many lovers.

Edit: Mostly elves probably.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 31 mai 2010 - 12:46 .

[tmp7704]

So, i can't be the only one who reads the topic, and where this discussion is going, and gets mental image of brand new rental, "Debbie Cailan Does Ferelden"...

[Axekix]

tmp7704 wrote...

So, i can't be the only one who reads the topic, and where this discussion is going, and gets mental image of brand new rental, "Debbie Cailan Does Ferelden"...

I think you might have been, yes.

[soignee]

you know, there is famnfic of Cailan and a whole assortment of bevvies... I CAN LINK FOR THE CURIOUS!

[Sarah1281]

Well, if anyone can pull it off and Teagan was busy, it would be Cailan. He's a crap King but has great people skills.

[Merilsell]

[phaonica]

Stupidity. The stupidity of one man caused this entire mess.

I disagree. Cailan may have invited them, but from what I can tell, most of the Fereldens supported the idea. Anora certainly did. And the issue was all but ignored by the nobles at the Landsmeet. Right now, I'm more inclined to believe the stupidity of the entire kingdom caused this mess. (edit: the Ferelden portion of the kingdom, that is).

Modifié par phaonica, 31 mai 2010 - 02:15 .