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[FourSixEight]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

FourSixEight wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

I'd take anything Morinth says about Samara with a grain of salt.  Morinth is a murderous sociopath.  Look at what happens when she tells you that she thinks you might be able to survive the mind-joining.  She microwaves your brain.   She lied to you to get what she wanted.

I find them to be interesting characters.  What makes Morinth different from Samara?  Some codes of conduct?  Sex?  

Both are powerful killers, but with different motivations.  That being said... Samara had 3 children, and all were ardat-yatshi (spelling???), and it is genetic... so I am thinking Samara is the same, but learned to control her killing desires by not sleeping with people... and following a strict code of conduct.  

I think you will find that in ME3, Morinth and Samara are very much alike.  

Ardat-Yakshi are sterile.   Samara had children.   Therefore, Samara is not an Ardat-Yakshi.

She could be lying to Shepard. Lying is not part of the Justicar Code, this we know. It's not something a Justicar like Samara would want to do. But if she was an Ardat-Yakshi herself, it would explain several things.

One, why she doesn't want a romance with Shepard (could be afraid of burning his mind out), two, why her bonus power, Reave, is eerily similar to Ardat-Yakshi methods, i.e., ripping nervous systems to shreds and leeching health, and three, why all her children turned out to be AY. Maybe AY can mate with asari safely or something, but no one wants to, at least not when they know who the AY is.

As for why Samara would lie, she either doesn't want Shepard to send her away and get upset unnecessarily, or AY being able to breed with asari, is yet another big secret the asari are keeping from the galaxy, and they don't want the galaxy to freak out.

Let us know when you are done grasping at straws.

Calm down. No one's grasping at straws, you said, 'it's not possible,' I said, 'it's possible but not definite.'


OT: What I'd like to know is whether choosing Morinth or Samara will have consequences in ME3;when you kill Samara, she says 'you will regret this decision.' Perhaps another justicar will start investigating her death, or if you killed Morinth, you'll still have Samara on your side, except she's now able to do things like, say, visit her Ardat-Yakshi children if they are still living in a monastery.

yorkj86 wrote...
We know she's not lying because a level designer told us that Ardat-Yakshi are, indeed, sterile.   Until a superior authority supercedes the authority of that person to make such a claim, we must accept that as canon.

I've never heard of that before, but if a level designer said so, then the theory doesn't seem to work. I apologize for wasting your time.

Modifié par FourSixEight, 31 mai 2010 - 04:11 .

[SpiderFan1217]

yorkj86 wrote...

FourSixEight wrote...

She could be lying to Shepard. Lying is not part of the Justicar Code, this we know. It's not something a Justicar like Samara would want to do. But if she was an Ardat-Yakshi herself, it would explain several things.

One, why she doesn't want a romance with Shepard (could be afraid of burning his mind out), two, why her bonus power, Reave, is eerily similar to Ardat-Yakshi methods, i.e., ripping nervous systems to shreds and leeching health, and three, why all her children turned out to be AY. Maybe AY can mate with asari safely or something, but no one wants to, at least not when they know who the AY is.

As for why Samara would lie, she either doesn't want Shepard to send her away and get upset unnecessarily, or AY being able to breed with asari, is yet another big secret the asari are keeping from the galaxy, and they don't want the galaxy to freak out.

We know she's not lying because a level designer told us that Ardat-Yakshi are, indeed, sterile.   Until a superior authority supercedes the authority of that person to make such a claim, we must accept that as canon.

Samara does not accept a romance with Shepard for several possible reasons.   The first, and the most obvious, is that, while the Code does not forbid romantic involvement, Samara does not want to get tied down with romance, because it would interefere with her duties as a Justicar.  The second reason is that Samara is traumatized to romantic involvement because of what happened the previous time she attempted to settle down.

If we understand Asari genetics correctly (lol, understand Asari genetics), an Asari can carry the Ardat-Yakshi gene, making her a carrier, or an Asari can express the Ardat-Yakshi gene, thus making her an Ardat-Yakshi.   If we accept that Samara is not an Ardat-Yakshi, but that she carries the Ardat-Yakshi gene, perhaps there is some biotic effect that carrying the gene imparts upon the Asari.  The effect is similar to the powers of the Ardat-Yakshi, but the Ardat-Yakshi kill through mind-joining, and the mind-joining is always lethal.   The effects are similar, but not identical.

Or  we could except Reave as an entirely different ability with no connection to the AY gene. (Points to Shep's ability to learn it as evidence.) That's what I'm going with.

[Throw_this_away]

yorkj86 wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

I'd take anything Morinth says about Samara with a grain of salt.  Morinth is a murderous sociopath.  Look at what happens when she tells you that she thinks you might be able to survive the mind-joining.  She microwaves your brain.   She lied to you to get what she wanted.

I find them to be interesting characters.  What makes Morinth different from Samara?  Some codes of conduct?  Sex?  

Both are powerful killers, but with different motivations.  That being said... Samara had 3 children, and all were ardat-yatshi (spelling???), and it is genetic... so I am thinking Samara is the same, but learned to control her killing desires by not sleeping with people... and following a strict code of conduct.  

I think you will find that in ME3, Morinth and Samara are very much alike.  

Ardat-Yakshi are sterile.   Samara had children.   Therefore, Samara is not an Ardat-Yakshi.

What makes Morinth different from Samara is that Morinth serves only her own desires, all of which compel her to manipulate and mastermind the corruption of the innocent for her own benefit.   Then, she kills them, and that act makes her stronger.  Morinth cannot stop.

Samara serves the Code, which, presumably, has been constructed to represent Asari values, and the Asari justice system as an extention of those values.   Samara can stop, theoretically.  As an Asari has to go through rigorous training in order to become a Justicar, there must be an organization and some oversight.   Justicars must answer to someone, as the Spectres do.

Morinth hates everything about her mother.  We learn this from Shepard's conversations with  Morinth.  Samara states that, even though she has to kill her daughter for violating Asari laws and then fleeing, she has always been extremely proud of her daughter, and that she will always love her.

This discussion has come up a lot in these forums.  I don't think they're much alike, apart from the moral ambiguity of their justifications for doing the things they do.

Genetics makes your sterility logic work only if the genetic enheritance is recessive (i.e you need two copies of the A-Y gene to be a true A-Y.  One from dad, one from mom.  One copy of the A-Y gene and you are still normal).  If it were dominant, the mutation would have to arise by random chance, or by definition, A-Y's would have to be fertile.  

That being said... I can;t remember if the sterility part was mentioned in the codex or not, so that could be a huge trump card.  

Regarding your point about Samara being able to not kill someone theoretically... same goes for Morinth.  Morinth chooses to kill for pleasure/etc, Samara herselft states she is obliged to kill based on the code.  My point is that both are ruthless killers... and neither has full control of their actions as one is bound by a harsh code, and the other by her perverse desires.  It is an interesting pairing that appears very polarized at first, but on another level, they are very similar.  

Talking with Samara made me think that she was once very much like Morinth is now.  Again, she found salvation and condrol through the code.  It brings up the whole "what makes a murder" issue.  Is a soldure that kills 50 people for his country a murderer? We say no because his motivations are just.  But maybe to the invaided country his motivations are not just... so he is a murderer to them.       

[SpiderFan1217]

FourSixEight wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

FourSixEight wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

I'd take anything Morinth says about Samara with a grain of salt.  Morinth is a murderous sociopath.  Look at what happens when she tells you that she thinks you might be able to survive the mind-joining.  She microwaves your brain.   She lied to you to get what she wanted.

I find them to be interesting characters.  What makes Morinth different from Samara?  Some codes of conduct?  Sex?  

Both are powerful killers, but with different motivations.  That being said... Samara had 3 children, and all were ardat-yatshi (spelling???), and it is genetic... so I am thinking Samara is the same, but learned to control her killing desires by not sleeping with people... and following a strict code of conduct.  

I think you will find that in ME3, Morinth and Samara are very much alike.  

Ardat-Yakshi are sterile.   Samara had children.   Therefore, Samara is not an Ardat-Yakshi.

She could be lying to Shepard. Lying is not part of the Justicar Code, this we know. It's not something a Justicar like Samara would want to do. But if she was an Ardat-Yakshi herself, it would explain several things.

One, why she doesn't want a romance with Shepard (could be afraid of burning his mind out), two, why her bonus power, Reave, is eerily similar to Ardat-Yakshi methods, i.e., ripping nervous systems to shreds and leeching health, and three, why all her children turned out to be AY. Maybe AY can mate with asari safely or something, but no one wants to, at least not when they know who the AY is.

As for why Samara would lie, she either doesn't want Shepard to send her away and get upset unnecessarily, or AY being able to breed with asari, is yet another big secret the asari are keeping from the galaxy, and they don't want the galaxy to freak out.

Let us know when you are done grasping at straws.

Calm down. No one's grasping at straws, you said, 'it's not possible,' I said, 'it's possible but not definite.'

I never said it wasn't possible. And why did you tell me to calm down.   I'M CALM. I'M ALWAYS CALM. 

Modifié par SpiderFan1217, 31 mai 2010 - 04:16 .

[GiroX-]

I tried to do this on my Renegade, but I messed up somehow .



I have beat the game 4 different times on insanity and have all achievements, but I still dont have dominate yet haha.

[Mars Nova]

kerkegr06 wrote...
So also says that Samara was evil and part of a group that wants the humans erased. Plus her fourth ability is sweet

I've taken Morinth into my crew and don't recall ever having this conversation.  Whenever I talked to her, it was always the same old stuff.  Please elaborate.

[FourSixEight]

GiroX- wrote...

I tried to do this on my Renegade, but I messed up somehow .

I have beat the game 4 different times on insanity and have all achievements, but I still dont have dominate yet haha.

You're not the only one, trust me. Getting Morinth is seriously tricky.

If you wanted to do it anyway, the most basic thing is just choose almost all Renegade/Paragon options throughout the entire game, recruit Samara immediately, and do her Loyalty Mission immediately. Keep racking up more karma points, and you should get her.

[SpiderFan1217]

FourSixEight wrote...

GiroX- wrote...

I tried to do this on my Renegade, but I messed up somehow .

I have beat the game 4 different times on insanity and have all achievements, but I still dont have dominate yet haha.

You're not the only one, trust me. Getting Morinth is seriously tricky.

If you wanted to do it anyway, the most basic thing is just choose almost all Renegade/Paragon options throughout the entire game, recruit Samara immediately, and do her Loyalty Mission immediately. Keep racking up more karma points, and you should get her.

It's not tricky. You just have to max out paragon or renegade.

[GothamLord]

FourSixEight wrote...

GiroX- wrote...

I tried to do this on my Renegade, but I messed up somehow .

I have beat the game 4 different times on insanity and have all achievements, but I still dont have dominate yet haha.

You're not the only one, trust me. Getting Morinth is seriously tricky.

If you wanted to do it anyway, the most basic thing is just choose almost all Renegade/Paragon options throughout the entire game, recruit Samara immediately, and do her Loyalty Mission immediately. Keep racking up more karma points, and you should get her.

Its not hard to ger Morinth if you a) dont jump around alot between paragon/renegade choices and b)get her as early into the game as possible.

The game keeps track of your paragon/renegade options outside of just the visible meter bar. If your percentage is heavy to one side its fairly simple. The later you take in the game the more chance you have fall behind the curve if you bounce around alot with choices. Its also actually easier to get the left side paragon conversation option before the renegade one. Both allow you to pick Samara or Morinth.  Though most people playing heavy Paragon dont have much reason to side with Morinth.

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

It's not tricky. You just have to max out paragon or renegade.

You dont have to be maxed.  It helps though as does the level 4 skill option of your class that gives you a +100 boost

Modifié par GothamLord, 31 mai 2010 - 04:33 .

[Nightwriter]

Dude, do you guys know what Morinth looks like when she doesn't feed?

[MerrickShep]

FourSixEight wrote...

If you really want the Dominate power from Morinth, and that's all you want from her, seeing as that's the only thing differentiating her and Samara, why not simply make a new, 'alternate universe save' where you recruited her, so you can still have it as a bonus power?

And even if you didn't, think about the moral and practical ramifications. Samara is Lawful Stupid half the time, yes, and she is a danger to you if you're highly Renegade, yes, but you could convince her to leave you alone if you left her alone in ME3 or something.

With Morinth? There are no guarantees. If you somehow in the future aren't able to resist her Ardat-Yakshi control anymore- let alone your squadmates not being able to- things onboard are going to get messy as well.

She'll keep trying to romance Shepard, and if he turns her down, she might react...impulsively, to try and fix that problem.

Besides, recruiting her in the first place is destroying all the good deeds Samara can do in the future, and spitting on both her memory and all of Morinth's victims.

That's why It's a renegade choice

[Onyx Jaguar]

I'm kind of tempted to keep Morinth alive so that Mass Effect 3 will turn into True Blood

[kelmar6821]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Dude, do you guys know what Morinth looks like when she doesn't feed?

When she has just had a fresh meal though, she doesn't look to bad.

[Collider]

I can't believe people are seriously comparing Morinth to Samara. The former is an irredeemable hedonist, the latter is basically a knight. :l

[Nightwriter]

Yeah but still, the worst part of keeping Morinth is having to put up with her gal pals.

CONSTANTLY hanging around...



Ugh. Such a drag...

[eternalnightmare13]

I did this, too. I agree about Morinth - defintely worth it.

[kraidy1117]

Nightwriter wrote...

Yeah but still, the worst part of keeping Morinth is having to put up with her gal pals.

CONSTANTLY hanging around...



Ugh. Such a drag...

WTF NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Daewan]

You do know that you can recruit her just to get Dominate, and then reload a previous save and still have it, right?

[Nightwriter]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Yeah but still, the worst part of keeping Morinth is having to put up with her gal pals.

CONSTANTLY hanging around...



Ugh. Such a drag...

WTF NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know, I was upset too... I was like I don't care how long you've been friends, Morinth, they're not staying on the ship tonight...

They can stand there smiling all they like, I know something's not right, you can't fool me, I got the keen eye... there's something funny about them...

[Cain_Novaburn]

Vaenier wrote...

I dont like it when people try to melt my brain, so I iced her.

Word.

[CalJones]

I recruited her once to get Dominate, then reloaded. Even my most Renegade Shepard wouldn't have her on the crew - he might be able to resist her but she still poses a threat to other crew mates (like warm and welcoming Kelly). Can't have that!

[Annie_Dear]

CalJones wrote...

I recruited her once to get Dominate, then reloaded.

Same here