616 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

Terror_K wrote...

There's no reason they can't give us more items overall and more choice and more depth to the system and not keep it limited to the ship, ala ME2. To me ME2's problem wasn't the lack of an inventory screen so much as the lack of inventory entirely.

I agree with this

[Terror_K]

Well, looking at things, if they keep releasing DLC weapons at the rate they are... assuming ME3 has all the same weapons from ME2 and the DLC's leading up to it and then adds a few more to each category, we'll probably have a good selection. Then just bung some visible stats on them for comparison, make them moddable in some fashion, tweak the loadout system a little more and introduce some more research upgrades and there we go... at least for weapons. Add some more armour pieces, and rework the existing one-piece armours into separate components... bring back omni-tools and biotic amps, and I'll be very, very happy.

[Orchomene]

The discussion about statistics and interpretation of the results is fun. Having a "sample" of less than 1% and a selection based on voluntary participation has no value at all. The result can be close to the reality but can also be far from it. What if those that answer to the result have a bias toward loving the game ? Wouldn't you be more interested in supporting the game if you are a fan of it than if you just played it a bit then put it on the shelves or sold it ? Possible. What if those that goes to Gamespot have a bias toward loving ME2 because the audience of Gamespot is more close to shooter fans and casual gamers ? Of course, the reverse may be true. The only thing that can be said from those reviews is that it doesn't have any reason to reflect the reality.
What if I do a poll in a ME2 forum about liking the game or not ? Of course there would be more people that like the game for the simple reason that only few people that didn't like the game would keep coming here.
Did you see the number of people that received badly ME2 and said it in the "disappointment" thread and never came back after ? Is there a reason for them to keep coming in a forum discussing a game they didn't like ? I don't even know why I am still here. Certainly because I appreciate generally BW games and just want to understand why they delivered a such mediocre product targeted to the masses of gamers that would spend 60 bucks on a game that is played in 10 repetitive hours. The same players that found that ME2 has the best story ever written. You can appreciate the game, it's a matter of taste, but thinking the story is the best written ever is a symptom of lack of knowledge of older RPGs where the story is ten times better. I'm sure you have many titles in the head with better stories.

Modifié par Orchomene, 18 juin 2010 - 07:51 .

[FlyingWalrus]

I, personally, won't judge Mass Effect's whole storyline until all three games are out and I've completed them. It's kind of unfair to judge ME2's storyline the same way one would judge, say, 1984. Or, as far as games go, Baldur's Gate. Or KoTOR, to stay within the Bioware pantheon. Mass Effect, it's an incomplete story yet. It's quite common for the success of a trilogy story to rely heavily on its conclusion.

As for this talk of audience samples, unless you do a very detailed survey (which Bioware and EA no doubt will, sooner or later; it's a part of all marketing departments these days), is meaningless. It's pointless to try because the side that believes that most players of ME2 were disappointed will continue believing that the public opinion is on their side whereas the pro-positive ME2 players will continue to tout sales figures, the positive-to-negative review ratio, user scores, and the like.

In all honesty, what little evidence exists heavily favors the pro-positive side. Ultimately, it's ridiculous to have this discussion anyway because each side will continue feeling what they do regardless of the other's opinion.

Modifié par FlyingWalrus, 18 juin 2010 - 09:42 .

[tonnactus]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I can't. Inventory management would negate weapon choice in missions and would make things extremely trivial. Also the leveling system in ME 1 is overcharged because it has emphasis on leveling up accuracy which makes the difficulty curve of the game really really strange.

This is crap.You get like 30 percent additional accuracy added your current weapon.And the most important parts are the special weapon attacks like marksmen and carnage.All weapons except the sniper(and even this weapon with crouch) were usuable from the start and enemies level with you anyway.So they dont shoot better then shepardt.

[SuperMedbh]

A sample size of 1% isn't necessarily a bad sample.  After all, legitimate marketing surveys use smaller samples than that with a fair degree of predictive success.  The real question is whether or not the sample is selected in an unbiased and representative manner.  Certainly, online responses are subject to self-selection bias, which typically trends towards the negative. 

Sampling game reviews is far easier, however.  The Metascores on Metacritic are a weighted average of industry reviews, and probably a fairly accurate "score" for critical success of various products, games included.  That doesn't mean that there is some objective quality, or that the target audience agrees with the critics.  It simply means that various industry reviews like/don't like the game/movie/book.  A good explanation of their methodology, as well as the list of which publications they use is here

So, yes, both ME1 and ME2 were met with critical acclaim, and the sales figures to justify the direction that Bioware has taken with the series.  But having said that, that's all incidental the question we've been gnawing at on this thread:  does that direction hold enough "RPG" to satisfy the original Mass Effect fan base?  And for that matter, what is "RPG", anyway?  Don't say it's obvious, or this thread would never have gotten past the fourth page=]

[Alex_SM]

We need an IMDB of video games. Not just with a rating, but some statistics about what people are voting. A look at the distribution of votes and a demographic breakdown is far more useful than just a weighted rating.

[Orchomene]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Sampling game reviews is far easier, however.  The Metascores on Metacritic are a weighted average of industry reviews, and probably a fairly accurate "score" for critical success of various products, games included.  That doesn't mean that there is some objective quality, or that the target audience agrees with the critics.  It simply means that various industry reviews like/don't like the game/movie/book.  A good explanation of their methodology, as well as the list of which publications they use is here

So wrong. Metacritic is almost only based on american reviews. If you count european and asiatic market, the score can change. This is specifically true for AP that had mediocre scores in the USA and higher than DAO and sometimes ME in some non english spoken magazines.
Besides, almost all the reviews on internet are not professional and done prior the official release of the game or just the day after. Reviews and critics in video games are of no value at all. If you consider the games you found to be good and the one that have had good scores, you may clearly wonder how they rate games. At least, I do wonder a lot. So, "various industry reviews" means nothing at all, almost all written by amateurs, based mainly on a priori and Metacritic has already a high bias in what reviews they consider. Just junk.

[SuperMedbh]

Orchomene wrote...


So wrong. Metacritic is almost only based on american reviews. If you count european and asiatic market, the score can change. This is specifically true for AP that had mediocre scores in the USA and higher than DAO and sometimes ME in some non english spoken magazines.
Besides, almost all the reviews on internet are not professional and done prior the official release of the game or just the day after. Reviews and critics in video games are of no value at all. If you consider the games you found to be good and the one that have had good scores, you may clearly wonder how they rate games. At least, I do wonder a lot. So, "various industry reviews" means nothing at all, almost all written by amateurs, based mainly on a priori and Metacritic has already a high bias in what reviews they consider. Just junk.

You really like to say "a priori", don't you?  Wish I could, but I Kant .  I will say for someone who is a bit of a philosophe, you quixotically seem fond of argument via assertion.

I mean, you can claim that all those professional reviews are in fact amateur because they have a web prescence, but to borrow a phrase from Alan, that's silly.  I mean, Wired magazine isn't exactly an amateur publication.  You'll find it at airport kiosks around the world, for goodness sakes.  Nor are they all American reviews, or even English language reviews.  The fact that you're claiming these two points makes me wonder if you even have looked at the list of sources, much less the methodology that Metacritic uses (a bit harsh of me, but there it is).

And since when did weighted averages become a form of bias?  It's a technique used extensively in statistical analysis.  On one hand, you complain that not all datapoints have equal validity, and in the next breath you're complaining about a centuries old statistical method that is used to compensate for that very issue. 

In all seriousness, I believe that you don't really understand what Metacritic is trying to represent.  There is no objective truth being represented, rather it's an aggregate of what the critics have to say.  Critical acclaim doesn't necessarily mean a game is good, just that the various magazines and trade publications liked it.  That's all. 

Modifié par SuperMedbh, 18 juin 2010 - 09:42 .

[Alex_SM]

well, critics usually claim their opinions are objective facts, so Metacritic is a weighted rating of objective facts LoL

[SuperMedbh]

Alex_SM wrote...

well, critics usually claim their opinions are objective facts, so Metacritic is a weighted rating of objective facts LoL

Funny.  Let's call it an objective measurement of subjective reality

Modifié par SuperMedbh, 18 juin 2010 - 10:47 .

[AmstradHero]

N7Pharoah wrote...
Mass Effect 1 like leveling system
Mass Effect 1 like inventory management
Mass Effect 1 like love scenes
Mass Effect 2 everything else

Mass Effect 1 levelling system
As in you have skills and allocate points in them? Isn't that what we got in ME2? Or do you like weapon skills to take your accuracy from "can't hit the broad side of a barn" to "can shoot the mosquito on the head of a pin from 500m away"? I'll pass on skills like that, thanks.

Mass Effect 1 inventory management
For the love of gaming NO. I like debating over which gear to use to some degree (see Dragon Age), but not having to decide whether to use my +4 vs "angry squirrels" halberd or my +2 to "defense against flying lizardmen" shield like Icewind Dale. I also detest having to go through copious amounts of filtering through an overly large inventory of mostly useless equipment to make an obscenely sized fortune that I have no use for... which is what ME1 provided.

Mass Effect 1 love scenes
Really? We're arguing over which game had the better love scenes?  Is it really worth quibbling over something that takes up maybe 5-10 seconds in a 50-60 hour game?
Or did you just want a side shot of boob in your love scenes like ME1?

Modifié par AmstradHero, 18 juin 2010 - 11:31 .

[Pocketgb]

AmstradHero wrote...
Or did you just want a side shot of boob in your love scenes like ME1?

I only wish Thane took his shirt off instead of Jacob : (

[SkullandBonesmember]

AmstradHero wrote...
Or did you just want a side shot of boob in your love scenes like ME1?

Because anything that can further a story, even in a superficial way, is not important. It's all about gameplay mechanics, gameplay mechanics, gameplay mechanics, gameplay mechanics.

[Alex_SM]

Or did you just want a side shot of boob in your love scenes like ME1?

mmm.... boobies :O

[Felfenix]

How come I don't get to see Tali's face, but I'm forced to see Miranda's?