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[Maria13]

They should call me the thread killler...



Whenever I post on an interesting thread like this one, it seems to die... [Except for the Alistair gush thread, that one will go on for ever...]



Please someone... Do something here! This is great discussion, do not let it whither away...

[old book]

Heh.



I think the Human Noble and Dwarf Noble origins offer some interesting sexual morality questions.



Both give you the option of sleeping with someone who comes out of crushing poverty.



With the HN-Iona path, it's entirely casual. They can have no real future together, not even if they started an affair. She works for another family, and seems happy enough with them; she's not angling for a new job. If a child did result, its early life would be incredibly tough. A noble bastard without a mother if Iona gave it to your character (who'd then have to ask his family to place it to be raised), or a human child raised in an alienage. Best case scenario would be placing the bastard in Iona's household and never letting it know that Iona was its mother. I'd say it's irresponsible to sleep with her if not immoral; on the other hand, the HN is young, and Iona is pretty and wants him (or her). It's tough in those circumstances to think of the future or say no.



The DN issue is more complicated. The Noble Chasers come from the worst sort of poverty. They are legally banned from seeking any form of legitimate work, and have no options other than prostitution or crime. Unlike Iona, they do have something material to gain from sleeping with the DN; if they become pregnant, their lives will get better (potentially much better), and their sons (if they have sons) will be nobles. By modern standards sleeping with them is pretty dark; by the standards of Dwarven society, it could be seen as just another right of the nobility (which is also, by modern standards, dark). Again, the DN is young, and these arangements are normal in the DN's world. Saying "no" is tough in those circumstances.

[SRWill64]

Maria13 wrote...

Further, if you are part of a small band, partnerships can make you stronger. I'm a bit rusty on ancient history but one of the backbones of the Spartan military was the couples or pairs a line formed by guys who were in a relationship with each other, it was famously difficult to break.
.

I wasn't aware of this being the case with the Spartans, but the Sacred Band of Thebes was, and still is, quite famous and it was made up of pairs of men who were lovers. It was also notoriously hard to break.

It actually was preferred, in ancient Greece, for the armies to be made up of these types of pairs because it was believed they would fight for themselves and each other that much harder so they would both survive. Surviving soldiers means more experienced soldiers and more experienced soldiers means it's more likely to be victorious.

[Maria13]

old book wrote...

Heh.

I think the Human Noble and Dwarf Noble origins offer some interesting sexual morality questions.

Both give you the option of sleeping with someone who comes out of crushing poverty.

With the HN-Iona path, it's entirely casual. They can have no real future together, not even if they started an affair. She works for another family, and seems happy enough with them; she's not angling for a new job. If a child did result, its early life would be incredibly tough. A noble bastard without a mother if Iona gave it to your character (who'd then have to ask his family to place it to be raised), or a human child raised in an alienage. Best case scenario would be placing the bastard in Iona's household and never letting it know that Iona was its mother. I'd say it's irresponsible to sleep with her if not immoral; on the other hand, the HN is young, and Iona is pretty and wants him (or her). It's tough in those circumstances to think of the future or say no.

The DN issue is more complicated. The Noble Chasers come from the worst sort of poverty. They are legally banned from seeking any form of legitimate work, and have no options other than prostitution or crime. Unlike Iona, they do have something material to gain from sleeping with the DN; if they become pregnant, their lives will get better (potentially much better), and their sons (if they have sons) will be nobles. By modern standards sleeping with them is pretty dark; by the standards of Dwarven society, it could be seen as just another right of the nobility (which is also, by modern standards, dark). Again, the DN is young, and these arangements are normal in the DN's world. Saying "no" is tough in those circumstances.

You seem a subtle old book...

Yep, prehaps respecting your partner should also include making the appropriate anticonceptive arrangements... It needed to be said and you said it. 

[Giggles_Manically]

Arent Grey Wardens practically infertile? So its not like we have to be worried about getting someone pregnant right. People who claim that Wardens getting committed to anyone is bad (Wynne), I do not see it as such.

[Maria13]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Arent Grey Wardens practically infertile? So its not like we have to be worried about getting someone pregnant right. People who claim that Wardens getting committed to anyone is bad (Wynne), I do not see it as such.

True but practically does not mean "totally".  And there have been certain exceptions...

[Arttis]

I like the chevilairs and how they can rape any commoner they want.

*i know its wrong but being able to do whatever you want is quite nice*

Thats the only bit i know from orlais.Would be cool if there was an orlesian noble,chevlilairs,commoner origins in the next dragon age.

I think its ok for the grey warden to take anyone whos willing to bed.

Also if you sleep with morrigan and dont do the ritual she still has your kid but no god soul.

Even if you suddenly have kids with every woman in thedas it wont interfere with your job as a greywarden unless you let it.So it really depends on the person and how they will react to certain events.If the grey warden does anything that would hinder his ability to stop the blight then thats bad unless he cares only for himself and outruns the blight letting other grey wardens kill it.*they would and you know it*

[Rendar666]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Just a thought on the morality of The Pearl, I read a book a couple of years ago about medieval prostitution. The book was a history of church sponsored prostitution in France. If I remember correctly, the churches take on it was that it was better for men to seek out the company of these women rather than to let their bestial nature get the better of them and cause them to do violence to those around them. Rape gangs were not uncommon at this time. So, bath houses and such were seen as a social necessity and therefore not considered "sin". The morality of prostitution was never an issue. It was not uncommon for the priests to visit these establishments as well. It's just something to consider.

For one thing, this is messed up on so many levels it isn't even funny. No REAL man needs to go rape a woman because he hasn't gotten it on in months. I mean, "Their Bestial Nature". What the **** is this? Am I an animal now who cannot contol his actions? I mean, seriously. How many normal men have you seen go rape a woman because he couldn't get some? WTF kinda **** is this? This makes me sick. I don't care if it's simply you speaking how it was back then, it's bull**** and I am truly offended.

Sorry for the douche-bag-ery in advance. But this is offensive. Honestly.

[Arttis]

Rendar666 wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Just a thought on the morality of The Pearl, I read a book a couple of years ago about medieval prostitution. The book was a history of church sponsored prostitution in France. If I remember correctly, the churches take on it was that it was better for men to seek out the company of these women rather than to let their bestial nature get the better of them and cause them to do violence to those around them. Rape gangs were not uncommon at this time. So, bath houses and such were seen as a social necessity and therefore not considered "sin". The morality of prostitution was never an issue. It was not uncommon for the priests to visit these establishments as well. It's just something to consider.

For one thing, this is messed up on so many levels it isn't even funny. No REAL man needs to go rape a woman because he hasn't gotten it on in months. I mean, "Their Bestial Nature". What the **** is this? Am I an animal now who cannot contol his actions? I mean, seriously. How many normal men have you seen go rape a woman because he couldn't get some? WTF kinda **** is this? This makes me sick. I don't care if it's simply you speaking how it was back then, it's bull**** and I am truly offended.

Sorry for the douche-bag-ery in advance. But this is offensive. Honestly.

Well thats obviously your morals.
simles make it all better:P
lets calm down hes just talking about a little history.that he *might* have read.

Modifié par Arttis, 06 juin 2010 - 05:13 .

[Giggles_Manically]

What do you expect from the catholic church in Medieval Europe, beneath its happy surface there is worse corruption than any other organized group ever. Dont believe me? Go and read a book about what they did, or politics in the crusade, sickening does not begin to cover it. Or another reason the church sponsered prostituion is money.

[Arttis]

Also remember that we all have trouble controlling ourselves sometimes too.
If i did something that you absolutely despised,could you control yourself to say and do nothing if you did not have the right to say or do anything?

Modifié par Arttis, 06 juin 2010 - 05:21 .

[Rendar666]

Could be offensive. Taken out.


Smiles and kisses instead.

Modifié par Rendar666, 06 juin 2010 - 05:24 .

[Arttis]

lets step away from religion and get back on topic please.

[Rendar666]

Arttis wrote...

Also remember that we only have trouble controlling ourselves sometimes too.
If i did something that you absolutely despised,could you control yourself to say and do nothing if you did not have the right to say or do anything?

Those two are not related at all. Not a single bit. How does raping a woman compare to me telling you off for saying something that totally went against my every being? It doesn't. Nothing can MAKE a man rape a woman. Nothing. Unless they are mega hyped up on drugs and their brain is fried.

Normal guys would, don't freak out from the honesty, jerk it. They wouldn't go rape a woman. End.

Not at all about simple control.

Modifié par Rendar666, 06 juin 2010 - 05:25 .

[Tirigon]

Playing a morale character does not mean you can´t have a relationship or visit the Pearl.



In the game you don´t have the option to rape someone (and I´m glad about that, in spite of usually being pro-choice); all sex is done on voluntary basis or as business, and neither is immoral.

[Tirigon]

Rendar666 wrote...

Normal guys would, don't freak out from the honesty, jerk it. They wouldn't go rape a woman. End.

Not at all about simple control.

Then there are way too many abnormal guys out there.

[Arttis]

Rendar666 wrote...

Arttis wrote...

Also remember that we only have trouble controlling ourselves sometimes too.
If i did something that you absolutely despised,could you control yourself to say and do nothing if you did not have the right to say or do anything?

Those two are not related at all. Not a single bit. How does raping a woman compare to me telling you off for saying something that totally went against my every being? It doesn't. Nothing can MAKE a man rape a woman. Nothing. Unless they are mega hyped up on drugs and their brain is fried.

Normal guys would, don't freak out from the honesty, jerk it. They wouldn't go rape a woman. End.

Not at all about simple control.

If there is a sociall ladder or rules or whatever that makes people who have sex better and people who dont lesser then its a bit more at work then our nature.People can go very far to be accepted.
Also look up rape on wiki they talk about how 1 in 6 african women have been raped and how some people there see gang rape as fun.What is normal to you is not what is normal for others.
I seriously hope im not breaking any forum rules here.

[Rendar666]

Tirigon wrote...

Rendar666 wrote...

Normal guys would, don't freak out from the honesty, jerk it. They wouldn't go rape a woman. End.

Not at all about simple control.

Then there are way too many abnormal guys out there.

No, really? You're absolutely right. There are a lot of abnormal guys out there. What, are you saying that that is something a normal guy would do?

[Rendar666]

Arttis wrote...

Rendar666 wrote...

Arttis wrote...

Also remember that we only have trouble controlling ourselves sometimes too.
If i did something that you absolutely despised,could you control yourself to say and do nothing if you did not have the right to say or do anything?

Those two are not related at all. Not a single bit. How does raping a woman compare to me telling you off for saying something that totally went against my every being? It doesn't. Nothing can MAKE a man rape a woman. Nothing. Unless they are mega hyped up on drugs and their brain is fried.

Normal guys would, don't freak out from the honesty, jerk it. They wouldn't go rape a woman. End.

Not at all about simple control.

If there is a sociall ladder or rules or whatever that makes people who have sex better and people who dont lesser then its a bit more at work then our nature.People can go very far to be accepted.
Also look up rape on wiki they talk about how 1 in 6 african women have been raped and how some people there see gang rape as fun.What is normal to you is not what is normal for others.
I seriously hope im not breaking any forum rules here.

Wow, I cannot believe I am being argued with about this. I'm done.

[Arttis]

Just saying there is more out there then you know.*not saying what they do is ok*

[Tirigon]

Rendar666 wrote...

How many normal men have you seen go rape a woman because he couldn't get some? WTF kinda **** is this?

Sorry for the off-topicness but I gotta tell a story I read a week or so ago.

It was about 7 perfectly normal men in a music orchestra. On a party, they went out and raped a 17 year old girl. Obviously they were tried and all, but they had a good lawyer and thus went free. After the trial they went back to their family and never talked about it again. They continued their perfectly normal life and everyone was happy.

Except for the girl of course who still suffers from the experience. But noone cared for HER, apparently.


You see? There are "normal men" who commit rape.

[Arttis]

Well most of my characters morality is im gonna do whatever i feel like and save all your lives from the blight...the end.

[Arttis]

A few of my more odd characters such as city or dalish elf was to kill anyone human and to kill anyone supporting humans.

Sleeping with human characters was a no no due to the possibility of increasing the human population*since evles with humans always equal a human i think*

[Tirigon]

Arttis wrote...

Sleeping with human characters was a no no due to the possibility of increasing the human population*since evles with humans always equal a human i think*

Yea it does. I wonder who invented that, it´s one of the most ridiculous stuff I ever read in Fantasy.