33 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

So the Adept, Soldier, and Vanguard are three classes that seem to depend heavily on one particular power on which to base their entire build upon. What are these classes without the use of Singularity, Adrenaline Rush, and Charge? Can an Adept survive Insanity without Singularity? Would a Vanguard be as fun without Charge? Can a Soldier be as effective without Adrenaline Rush?

I'm curious to know if people have tried to play the game with minimal usage of these particular powers. And if they have, explain or show exactly how they managed it.

[Thompson family]

I always play soldier and always use adrenaline, but must admit this is an intriguing premise.

[cruc1al]

An adept can easily survive insanity without singularity. In fact, any class can survive insanity with barely any powers, considering they have squadmates to help them and guns to shoot with. The game isn't that difficult.

But I'd even say that an adept without singularity is perfectly viable. You still have a direct damage power, warp explosions, instant pull and/or throw kills, and bonus powers. You just need to be a bit more cautious because lacking singularity, you can't freeze protected foes to get a safer escape, and you can't lock down multiple enemies to avoid being overwhelmed.

I haven't actually tried this, but knowing as I don't use singularity that much anyway, it's not much to ask.

As for soldier without AR, that might prove a bit tricky. The damage output would be roughly halved (considering the increased accuracy with slomo and no recoil), and that's a big deal. But again, you have bonus powers; just take reave or energy drain, depending on mission, and you'll be fine. But I'd say not using AR takes the fun out of being a soldier, because in my eyes it's the characteristic that the most defines it. Same goes for vanguard without charge.

Modifié par cruc1al, 01 juin 2010 - 08:30 .

[mi55ter]

In some missions I found myself using Chanrge sparingly, as a "finishing move", 'cause I didn't like the layout of the map and thought it would leave my a.ss hanging out if I used it.

[Pacifien]

Well, I know that technically anyone can survive Insanity with less than optimal build. I suppose the question is really more about would you play on Insanity with these less than optimal builds. Or even if there's an entirely different way to play the game. When I see guides on how to play the Adept on Insanity, they are exclusively about controlling the battlefield with Singularity, so I'm interested to know if someone plays it differently.

Having played a Vanguard on Insanity, I know there are times to be a bit conservative with Charge. Still, I wouldn't enjoy playing a Vanguard if Charge wasn't an option.

I can't think of when a Soldier would want to be conservative with their Adrenaline Rush, though. Seems like if you can use it, then use it. It defines the class, which from the power user perspective that I usually see things, seems so limiting. I suppose one finds variation not in the use of Adrenaline Rush, but in the weapons you choose to use with it.

[mi55ter]

You could also argue that the Revvy/Widow choice defines the Soldier too. That choice goes so hand in hand with the evo of AR you choose it's definitely worth a mention.



As far as your idea goes, I've been thinking about it, and no, I don't think the 3 classes you've mentioned are as versatile as the Infi, for example. People have shown how the Infi shoudn't be viewed strictly as "the sniping class" because they've pulled out these awesome vids of cryo- ammo & cloaked sneak attacks that are really exhilirating when you pull them off. That was a different way of playing the Infi that they found, and the question you've posed here is pretty interesting. Could the same be done with other classes? Is their class power really versatile??

[Thompson family]

I suppose one finds variation not in the use of Adrenaline Rush, but in the weapons you choose to use with it.

You could also argue that the Revvy/Widow choice defines the Soldier too. That choice goes so hand in hand with the evo of AR you choose it's definitely worth a mention.

I've never tracked the number of hits or kills made on AR, but I bet it's very high -- perhaps even a majority.

[cruc1al]

Pacifien wrote...

When I see guides on how to play the Adept on Insanity, they are exclusively about controlling the battlefield with Singularity, so I'm interested to know if someone plays it differently.

I would say my adept playstyle isn't exactly mainstream. I like to capitalise on taking down defenses with warp or squadmates, then using pull, throw or pull+throw to CC or damage, or even insta-kill enemies if possible. I also use pull for its double weapon damage bonus quite often (especially useful after I grab the vindicator: get up close, pull, 1 burst = dead mook).

[cruc1al]

mi55ter wrote...

Could the same be done with other classes? Is their class power really versatile??

There definitely are many uses for AR. One: straight up damage bonus --> faster killing. Two: slow motion ensuring better accuracy with sniper rifles and cryo-enabled heavy pistols. Three: time dilation and hardened AR's health damage decrease to ensure safe retreat. 1 and 3 are very similar to Cloak in function, while 2 overlaps with infiltrator's native scope time dilation. And just like with cloak, the damage bonus applies to any weapon, so you can pull off close-range shotgun instant kills. I definitely think AR can be used imaginatively when combined with different situations, weapons and cryo ammo. It's just that if you take AR away, what are you left with? Storm speed bonus. If you take cloak away, you still have the scope time dilation. I'd say the latter is a more defining class feature than the former.

[Jackal904]

An adept would be fine without singularity. I wish I could unhotkey singularity from the Y button (xbox 360) so I could hotkey pull, throw, and warp. But for some reason they made it so you can't unhotkey each classes main ability (charge, adrenaline rush) from the Y button, which makes no sense.

[SmokeyNinjas]

I personally dont like controlling squadmates so to me Singularity is just the best way to set up my own warp explosions.
Toss it on a mook, couple shots from the vindicator to strip to health then warp & boom.

As it is right now i think Adrenaline Rush defines the Soldier class to much because the cooldown is so short.
I think it would of been much better with a longer cooldown so you had to be more tactical about when to use it.
And as for a Vanguard without Charge, Blasphemy i say!

[borelocin]

Can't imagine playing an adept without singularity except on a dare

[Radahldo]

Jackal904 wrote...

An adept would be fine without singularity. I wish I could unhotkey singularity from the Y button (xbox 360) so I could hotkey pull, throw, and warp. But for some reason they made it so you can't unhotkey each classes main ability (charge, adrenaline rush) from the Y button, which makes no sense.

retrain your powers; the first skill leveled is mapped to y

[Azint]

Adept can easily go on without Singularity, so long as you at least have Warp and Pull or something similar. The Soldier can also go without Adrenaline Rush, I hardly used it on Normal and below, and without it the game seems like a more standard shooter.

[Pacifien]

Azint wrote...
Adept can easily go on without Singularity, so long as you at least have Warp and Pull or something similar.

I'd really like to see a video of someone doing that, particularly on Insanity. I'm not challenging that it can't be done, I just would like to see it since I've already seen the videos concentrating on Singularity use.

[cruc1al]

Azint wrote...

Adept can easily go on without Singularity, so long as you at least have Warp and Pull or something similar. The Soldier can also go without Adrenaline Rush, I hardly used it on Normal and below, and without it the game seems like a more standard shooter.

The soldier can go without guns on normal and below.

[Azint]

Pacifien wrote...

Azint wrote...
Adept can easily go on without Singularity, so long as you at least have Warp and Pull or something similar.

I'd really like to see a video of someone doing that, particularly on Insanity. I'm not challenging that it can't be done, I just would like to see it since I've already seen the videos concentrating on Singularity use.

Singularity is used almost exactly the same way Pull is, so just do some substitutions. The real trick to playing as a biotic is to use the Warp detenoation combo, that works well on most things.

[SmokeyNinjas]

cruc1al wrote...

Azint wrote...

Adept can easily go on without Singularity, so long as you at least have Warp and Pull or something similar. The Soldier can also go without Adrenaline Rush, I hardly used it on Normal and below, and without it the game seems like a more standard shooter.

The soldier can go without guns on normal and below.

Adrenaline Rush with the Elbow of Death

[cruc1al]

Azint wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Azint wrote...
Adept can easily go on without Singularity, so long as you at least have Warp and Pull or something similar.

I'd really like to see a video of someone doing that, particularly on Insanity. I'm not challenging that it can't be done, I just would like to see it since I've already seen the videos concentrating on Singularity use.

Singularity is used almost exactly the same way Pull is, so just do some substitutions. The real trick to playing as a biotic is to use the Warp detenoation combo, that works well on most things.

Overusing warp explosions really makes the adept, well, less adept than it could be. That's because warp has a 6 second cooldown, and in many cases, shooting a pulled opponent, throwing the opponent or pull-throwing the opponent proves to be a much quicker way to deal with it.

[Cra5y Pineapple]

I never used adreneline for my soldier LOL

[Pacifien]

Azint wrote...
Singularity is used almost exactly the same way Pull is, so just do some substitutions. The real trick to playing as a biotic is to use the Warp detenoation combo, that works well on most things.

But Pull only works after you've taken out the enemy's defenses. Doesn't Singularity work on at least slowing an enemy down even if the defenses are still up?

[NICKjnp]

Lift field sort of works with Adept but... class powers are what makes a class great.

[NICKjnp]

Pacifien wrote...

Azint wrote...
Singularity is used almost exactly the same way Pull is, so just do some substitutions. The real trick to playing as a biotic is to use the Warp detenoation combo, that works well on most things.

But Pull only works after you've taken out the enemy's defenses. Doesn't Singularity work on at least slowing an enemy down even if the defenses are still up?

Singularity holds them in place and they won't attack you.  You can keep firing singularity at Harbinger and he will just stand there frozen for a certain amount of time.

[Lemonwizard]

My primary class is soldier, and while Adrenaline rush is clearly our best power, if you can get widow head shots without it you can clear insanity fine with no power use. The soldier is built around using guns the most, and adrenaline rush makes it easier for you to aim with guns. It'd be harder, sure, and you're probably never use your power cooldown....like ever (concussive shot is useless in all situations except against husk swarms and even then it's only good if you've got it maxed to get the AE bonus).

[Mx_CN3]

cruc1al wrote...

There definitely are many uses for AR. One: straight up damage bonus --> faster killing. Two: slow motion ensuring better accuracy with sniper rifles and cryo-enabled heavy pistols. Three: time dilation and hardened AR's health damage decrease to ensure safe retreat. 1 and 3 are very similar to Cloak in function, while 2 overlaps with infiltrator's native scope time dilation. And just like with cloak, the damage bonus applies to any weapon, so you can pull off close-range shotgun instant kills. I definitely think AR can be used imaginatively when combined with different situations, weapons and cryo ammo. It's just that if you take AR away, what are you left with? Storm speed bonus. If you take cloak away, you still have the scope time dilation. I'd say the latter is a more defining class feature than the former.

I also used AR on my 3rd soldier playthrough to get close to people and shotgun them down, in an effort to mix my gun usage as much as possible.  That all changed when I picked up the Revenant.

As for the main topic, I think that a Vanguard without charge is just a soldier with fewer guns and pull (since shockwave is, in my experience, terrible on insanity).  I only have done a few levels as an adept, and I haven't gotten very high, but singularity has been pretty lackluster so far (I am fully aware that it should get better).  A soldier without AR isn't a big deal at all, just play it like a Vanguard without the charging around.  I might stop using AR on my current soldier and see how it is, since this playthrough hasn't been particularly challenging.