3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

It's a video game: the track record of pretty much everyone you work with/for is terrible, because the game would be very boring if Shepard weren't needed to solve people's problems.

I mean, just look at the Council and it's component species. Cerberus has only once come as close as the STG's Genophage fumble with the Overlord project, and nothing compares to the oversight of Saren.

With just a little backwards reasoning, it's apparent why Cerberus's track record can't be as poor as some would like to believe.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 22 août 2010 - 07:37 .

[gethspy]

KalosCast wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I didn't do so in my "personal canon Shepard," but I think the main reason would be not to deliver possibly dangerous technology into the hands of an untrustworthy racially motivated terrorist leader.

This.

Pretty much every time that we screw around with Reaper tech, it comes to bite us in the ass. Since Cerberus is inept to the point of comedy, and it's already implied that TIM would consider this a viable option, Cerberus will probably end up making their own Reaper.

They are only inept when the plot demands it.

[Dott]

Illusive Man = Not trustworthy.

Collector Base = Contains Reaper technology.

Reaper technology = Bad.

Collectors = Evil aliens who aided the Reapers and tried to built a Human Reaper.



And so on and so forth.

In short: I blew it up because it's too god damn dangerous to keep around.

(And to ****** off the Illusive Man.)



As Jacob says: "Way to tell him you quit!"

[gethspy]

 If TIM screws it up ill kick his ass and give the base to the Alliance so he can keep it as long as he doesn't cross meB)

Modifié par gethspy, 22 août 2010 - 08:08 .

[Shadow_broker]

So you get mirandas resignation dialagoue



/100 page thread ended

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

With just a little backwards reasoning, it's apparent why Cerberus's track record can't be as poor as some would like to believe.

It is just as poor as you refuse to believe.

[mosor]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

With just a little backwards reasoning, it's apparent why Cerberus's track record can't be as poor as some would like to believe.

It is just as poor as you refuse to believe.

Huh? Cerberus being completely inept is simply not logical if they are portrayed as some feared, ruthless organization that the higest levels of government take seriously. The only reason things go wrong with some cerberus projects is so the protagonist has something to do.

[primero holodon]

mosor wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

With just a little backwards reasoning, it's apparent why Cerberus's track record can't be as poor as some would like to believe.

It is just as poor as you refuse to believe.

Huh? Cerberus being completely inept is simply not logical if they are portrayed as some feared, ruthless organization that the higest levels of government take seriously. The only reason things go wrong with some cerberus projects is so the protagonist has something to do.

Yeah, but EDI states that only a Handful of cerberus cells are active at one time so considering that every time you go clean up cerberus mistakes you're dealing with a different cell Logic would state that currently most Cerberus cells go haywire. Maybe cerberus was effective at some point in the past but clearly not any more. besides even if not all cerberus experiments go wrong too many do for it to be logical to trust TIM with it.

[mosor]

primero holodon wrote...

mosor wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

With just a little backwards reasoning, it's apparent why Cerberus's track record can't be as poor as some would like to believe.

It is just as poor as you refuse to believe.

Huh? Cerberus being completely inept is simply not logical if they are portrayed as some feared, ruthless organization that the higest levels of government take seriously. The only reason things go wrong with some cerberus projects is so the protagonist has something to do.

Yeah, but EDI states that only a Handful of cerberus cells are active at one time so considering that every time you go clean up cerberus mistakes you're dealing with a different cell Logic would state that currently most Cerberus cells go haywire. Maybe cerberus was effective at some point in the past but clearly not any more. besides even if not all cerberus experiments go wrong too many do for it to be logical to trust TIM with it.

Only a couple went wrong while playing the game really, and both times, the team made advances despite the carnage. Besides, you're dealing with alien technology. Experiments on earth, studying things we're really familiar with over the centuries, fail more often than not. Considering cerberus has had a few sucesses on alien technology and things we're absolutley not familiar at all with, I'd say their track record is pretty good.

[Skyblade012]

mosor wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

With just a little backwards reasoning, it's apparent why Cerberus's track record can't be as poor as some would like to believe.

It is just as poor as you refuse to believe.

Huh? Cerberus being completely inept is simply not logical if they are portrayed as some feared, ruthless organization that the higest levels of government take seriously. The only reason things go wrong with some cerberus projects is so the protagonist has something to do.

Yeah.  But the fact is, portraying them as a ruthless and feared organization when they accomplish diddly squat is just as illogical.

Let's face it, Cerberus is basically an entire organization dedicated to The Worf Effect.  They get talked up a lot.  Everyone on the galactic stage knows about them, considers them a serious threat, etcetera.  And then they fail.  Over and over and over and over.  Want the list?

Attempt to enslave Rachni:  Failure
Attempt to enslave Thorian Creepers: Failure
Attempt to enslave Husks: Failure
Attempt to maintain project secrecy by assassinating a human admiral: Failure (that group got wiped out, even though Kohoku died)
Project Lazarus: Success!  Barely, but still a success.  Grats, dudes.
Project Overlord: Failure
Project Firewalker: Failure

Take note, that EDI says that Cerberus is operating three cells currently.  Overlord and Lazarus are each one, referred to specifically as such, and Firewalker is probably the last.  So Lazarus is their only current success, and if you choose to destroy the base and turn on TIM, the success of that one is in question as well (since he determines whether it is a success or failure).

Pretty much everything that we know of that Cerberus succeeds at is either cranking out new weapons or armor (like the Cerberus Assault Armor and the Arc Projector), or is something done by Shepard.  They get talked up big, but we never get to see or even hear about their successes.  Why the heck would we take them seriously?


Honestly, we need a new Cerberus news feed, updating us on Cerberus projects that are doing well.  Some info on successful strikes around the galaxy.  Even a hub world we can explore and see them in the middle of something that isn't blowing up in their face.

Modifié par Skyblade012, 23 août 2010 - 02:25 .

[Turkey Braveheart]

Skyblade012 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

With just a little backwards reasoning, it's apparent why Cerberus's track record can't be as poor as some would like to believe.

It is just as poor as you refuse to believe.

Huh? Cerberus being completely inept is simply not logical if they are portrayed as some feared, ruthless organization that the higest levels of government take seriously. The only reason things go wrong with some cerberus projects is so the protagonist has something to do.

Yeah.  But the fact is, portraying them as a ruthless and feared organization when they accomplish diddly squat is just as illogical.

Let's face it, Cerberus is basically an entire organization dedicated to The Worf Effect.  They get talked up a lot.  Everyone on the galactic stage knows about them, considers them a serious threat, etcetera.  And then they fail.  Over and over and over and over.  Want the list?

Attempt to enslave Rachni:  Failure
Attempt to enslave Thorian Creepers: Failure
Attempt to enslave Husks: Failure
Attempt to maintain project secrecy by assassinating a human admiral: Failure (that group got wiped out, even though Kohoku died)
Project Lazarus: Success!  Barely, but still a success.  Grats, dudes.
Project Overlord: Failure
Project Firewalker: Failure

Take note, that EDI says that Cerberus is operating three cells currently.  Overlord and Lazarus are each one, referred to specifically as such, and Firewalker is probably the last.  So Lazarus is their only current success, and if you choose to destroy the base and turn on TIM, the success of that one is in question as well (since he determines whether it is a success or failure).

Pretty much everything that we know of that Cerberus succeeds at is either cranking out new weapons or armor (like the Cerberus Assault Armor and the Arc Projector), or is something done by Shepard.  They get talked up big, but we never get to see or even hear about their successes.  Why the heck would we take them seriously?


Honestly, we need a new Cerberus news feed, updating us on Cerberus projects that are doing well.  Some info on successful strikes around the galaxy.  Even a hub world we can explore and see them in the middle of something that isn't blowing up in their face.

True, Cerberus has had plenty of failures but this is a secret organization. Anything successful might be kept under wraps.

And it wouldn't surprise me if TIM wasn't actually in direct control of the whole thing but that Cerberus more of a franchise/umbrella group like the Blue Suns seem to be. TIM might only be in charge of the central faction behind the mission to destroy the Collectors.

[Turkey Braveheart]

G Kevin wrote...

I don't know about advanced weapons, because we seemed to take them down fairly easy. I did not notice anything particular about engines either. The only thing you can research from the base is how to make one in the first place surrounding all those black holes. Even then, why would there be any blue prints or anything of that matter that would help you build one?

Why would you need blue prints? Just dissassemble it and reverse engineer it like the mass effect fields.

[didymos1120]

Turkey Braveheart wrote...
Why would you need blue prints? Just dissassemble it and reverse engineer it like the mass effect fields.

Assuming you understand a damn thing about how it works after dissassembling it.  Just because you succeed in reverse engineering one technology doesn't mean you'll succeed with a different one.  Even if you learn something about how it works, you may not be able to do much with what you've learned.  In general, reverse-engineering is a real pain in the ass and a rather slow, painstaking process.   I'd also submit that ME fields were extremely suited to being reverse-engineered.  At base, all you do is run a current through eezo: Volia! Mass effect field.  If all they'd found on Mars was a big lump of eezo, it wouldn't have taken them all that long to figure that out.  Practical applications would have been no more difficult than developing any other technology.  Certainly less refined than Prothean ME-based tech, but that's true anyway.

[mosor]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Attempt to enslave Rachni:  Failure
Attempt to enslave Thorian Creepers: Failure
Attempt to enslave Husks: Failure
Attempt to maintain project secrecy by assassinating a human admiral: Failure (that group got wiped out, even though Kohoku died)
Project Lazarus: Success!  Barely, but still a success.  Grats, dudes.
Project Overlord: Failure
Project Firewalker: Failure

Rachni- Failure of no consequence. About the same level of saying hey I failed to domesticate a black widow spider
Thorian Creepers- Same as Rachni
Husks-Big deal same as above.

So what that Cerberus didn't suceed in building a super solider here. Not all things work out, and I bet they collected a crap load of data.

Kohokou- Ahm, I have to disagree. They suceeded very well in maintaining secrecy. Death ruled natural casuses.
Sheppard (If you did do that mission and thats no guarantee everyone did) gets recruited to Cerberus. Result sucess for cerberus.

Overlord- Who says overlord was a failure? You have to distinguish, heavy carnagae and failure. They got a lot of data, and proved geth can be controlled. Thats no failure. That's sucess that came with a heavy price tag.

Firewalker-Uhmm, the research team recovered the data and the artifact. They died, Cerberus sent you to recover the artifact. You work for cerberus. Hence this is a cerberus sucess. Mind you, the Cerberus has a lot of agents at their disposal. They could have sent Kai Leng, and he is an N7 killing machine too.

Pretty much everything that we know of that Cerberus succeeds at is either cranking out new weapons or armor (like the Cerberus Assault Armor and the Arc Projector), or is something done by Shepard.  They get talked up big, but we never get to see or even hear about their successes.  Why the heck would we take them seriously?

 
EDI, ressurecting you, giving you a state of the art ship. Without TIM, you would have never defeated the collectors. That's a plain fact. You give Shepard all the credit for beating the game, but you ingnore all the assistance and resources TIM gave you.  As for sucesses, you don't hear about them for the same reason you wouldn't have heard about their failures if you were not directly involved, or a voyeur reading a novel. Their organization is secret and even different cells don't know what the other is doing.

Modifié par mosor, 23 août 2010 - 10:18 .

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Cerberus derps so much it herps.

[Asheer_Khan]

Kohokou- Ahm, I have to disagree. They suceeded very well in maintaining secrecy. Death ruled natural casuses.

Sheppard (If you did do that mission and thats no guarantee everyone did) gets recruited to Cerberus. Result sucess for cerberus.

Bull**** on four legs...



I don't remember even slightest hint that finishing that particular mission ended with information that from now on Shepard is cerberus operative... on the contrary in ME 2 i never hidden my total disgust to fact that my choices were perma shackled by devs because that stupid and absolutely uncalled for "lesser evil" approach...

[mosor]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Kohokou- Ahm, I have to disagree. They suceeded very well in maintaining secrecy. Death ruled natural casuses.
Sheppard (If you did do that mission and thats no guarantee everyone did) gets recruited to Cerberus. Result sucess for cerberus.

Bull**** on four legs...

I don't remember even slightest hint that finishing that particular mission ended with information that from now on Shepard is cerberus operative... on the contrary in ME 2 i never hidden my total disgust to fact that my choices were perma shackled by devs because that stupid and absolutely uncalled for "lesser evil" approach...

Wasn't referring to getting recruited after that mission. You eventually get recruited by cerberus in ME2. Like it or not Shepard is a cerberus operative. As for Kohoku, secrecy was maintained. Nothing traced back to cerberus, so that operation has to be judged a sucess.

[Skyblade012]

mosor wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Kohokou- Ahm, I have to disagree. They suceeded very well in maintaining secrecy. Death ruled natural casuses.
Sheppard (If you did do that mission and thats no guarantee everyone did) gets recruited to Cerberus. Result sucess for cerberus.

Bull**** on four legs...

I don't remember even slightest hint that finishing that particular mission ended with information that from now on Shepard is cerberus operative... on the contrary in ME 2 i never hidden my total disgust to fact that my choices were perma shackled by devs because that stupid and absolutely uncalled for "lesser evil" approach...

Wasn't referring to getting recruited after that mission. You eventually get recruited by cerberus in ME2. Like it or not Shepard is a cerberus operative. As for Kohoku, secrecy was maintained. Nothing traced back to cerberus, so that operation has to be judged a sucess.

Listen to the news casts again.  The one talking about the investigation into Cerberus mentions that they are suspected of being involved in the death of Admiral Kohoku two years ago.

Also, the reason they killed Kohoku was because he was investigating their operation, and they wanted to keep it secret, so they could continue their work.  The result of this?  The entire operation gets torn apart by a pissed off Spectre and his buddies.  That was not a success.  Period.

Oh, yes, and let's look at the Reaper IFF mission.  Cerberus knows about indoctrination.  They've read Shepard's reports, and likely others as well (like Kirrahe's).  They know how indoctrination progresses, what the warning signs are.  And then they send a science team is and they don't even mention: "oh, hey, if you start seeing or hearing things, get the hell out and take a break".  Instead, they freaking build a damn base into the Reaper's interior, something that probably took weeks, if not months, and then wonder why they all went nuts.

[mosor]

Skyblade012 wrote...



Listen to the news casts again.  The one talking about the investigation into Cerberus mentions that they are suspected of being involved in the death of Admiral Kohoku two years ago.

This only happens if you spare the scientist in the corperal Toombs mission. Besides, it's at odds with the ME1 newscast which stated Kahoku died of natural causes.

Also, the reason they killed Kohoku was because he was investigating their operation, and they wanted to keep it secret, so they could continue their work.  The result of this?  The entire operation gets torn apart by a pissed off Spectre and his buddies.  That was not a success.  Period.

They killed Kahoku's men because they found Banes' body. As for their work. It was progressing nowhere, and probably never will. They got the data they wanted, and they still kept themselves from being exposed by kahoku. Sure Shepard did damage (If you do that mission, not every character does) but you can't judge that operation a failure. They silenced Kahoku's men, silenced the admiral and remained out of the spotlight. Mission accomplished.

Oh, yes, and let's look at the Reaper IFF mission.  Cerberus knows about indoctrination.  They've read Shepard's reports, and likely others as well (like Kirrahe's).  They know how indoctrination progresses, what the warning signs are.  And then they send a science team is and they don't even mention: "oh, hey, if you start seeing or hearing things, get the hell out and take a break".  Instead, they freaking build a damn base into the Reaper's interior, something that probably took weeks, if not months, and then wonder why they all went nuts.

They didn't build a base into the reapers interior. That "base" is actually the cerberus ship attached the to the reaper. The  prefab doors and catwalks inside the reaper, can be installed in a matter of days. As for indoctrination. They thought the reaper was dead. Even knowing about indoctrination, going inside a "dead" reaper was a reasonable risk. Now they know better. As for the signs of indoctrination, by the time you start hearing things, it's already too late.

Modifié par mosor, 24 août 2010 - 12:38 .

[Sajuro]

Turkey Braveheart wrote...

And it wouldn't surprise me if TIM wasn't actually in direct control of the whole thing but that Cerberus more of a franchise/umbrella group like the Blue Suns seem to be. TIM might only be in charge of the central faction behind the mission to destroy the Collectors.

I would like that but I kind of doubt it since he seems to be played as some big chess master.

[PsyrenY]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Cerberus derps so much it herps.

1) Find Thresher Maw
2) Murder humans
3) ???
4) Humanity!

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Cerberus derps so much it herps.

1) Find Thresher Maw
2) Murder humans
3) ???
4) Humanity!

[88mphSlayer]

Darian4 wrote...
 

88mphSlayer  wrote...
 
Cerberus's obsession with weaponry might end up being the catalyst to their indoctrination anyways […]

 
You think, it might… we all agree it’s a risky long shot. But right now we have nothing else. Why between a risky long shot and the certainty of death so many people choose the later?
 
 Unless it’s some kind of metagaming. Since we know there will be another solution in ME3 there is no reason to rush on this one. It would make a lot more sense but I think it should be specified.
 
(sorry for my English , I’m french)

yeah, metagaming definitely applies to Mass Effect in general just because we know there's another game to come and another solution to come, so decisions might be a lot harder to choose from in the 3rd game as opportunities slowly dwindle to whatever path you've set yourself up for the entire trilogy

for my paragon character, i'm basically looking at opportunities like using help from the non-heretic Geth, non-war Quarians, non-exctinct Rachni, and non-sterilized Krogans in the 3rd game as my army against the reapers

for my renegade character, it's all about humanity facing down the reapers by ourselves, but i'm just going to guess that regardless of paragon or renegade decisions there will probably be a confrontation with Cerberus at some point, maybe as paragon you finally deal them a final blow in order to gain the loyalty of everybody in the galaxy, and as renegade you usurp TIM and become like some defacto dictator of the galaxy or something, dunno

either way, it could take the reapers awhile to fly all the way to the galaxy and start wiping everybody out, so i'm going to guess that ME3 will have plenty of prepping and planning involved - largely setting up alliances or wiping out dissent, dunno how the trilogy will end

i would like to see what happens if you try to import a dead Shepard into ME3 tho, what happens then?

[Count Viceroy]

88mphSlayer wrote...

i would like to see what happens if you try to import a dead Shepard into ME3 tho, what happens then?

Nothing, you won't be able to import.

[Zulu_DFA]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

Cerberus derps so much it herps.

1) Find Thresher Maw
2) Murder humans
3) ???
4) Humanity!

1) Find Thresher Maw
2) Murder humans
3) TEH LULZ!!!
4) Wealthy contributors in the Alliance MIC...

Oh, yeah...