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[Zulu_DFA]

mosor wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...



Listen to the news casts again.  The one talking about the investigation into Cerberus mentions that they are suspected of being involved in the death of Admiral Kohoku two years ago.

This only happens if you spare the scientist in the corperal Toombs mission. Besides, it's at odds with the ME1 newscast which stated Kahoku died of natural causes.

You can spare the scientist, but kill Toombs... However, the Kahoku line may end up with you passing up the info on Cerberus to the Shadow Broker...

But I'd advise not to focus on Cerberus "failures". Just admit them: yes sometimes things go awry with Cerberus and  sometimes they even are responsible for it, like the failure to reacquire Gillian on the Quarian Flotilla was purely TIM's fault (he put too much trust in Grayson)...

But let's bring up Cerberus successes. That's something the haters are very reluctant to admit. Because it sort of dismisses their claims about Cerberus total ineptness, and puts the Cerberus "untrustworthiness" back into the ethical emotinal, alien-loving part of their argumentation.

So, here we go



Project Lazarus. Total success. Brought Shepard back from the dead. Set up a live fire test for him and eliminated a bunch of traitors (Wilson & Co).

Assisted Jacob to thwart Batarian terrorists' plans to assassinate the Council.

Built SR-2

Built EDI

Researched and developed multiple weapon and equipment advanced prototypes.

Took control of Terra Firma.

Found the Derelict Reaper, recovered Reaper IFF.

Found Klendagon BFG.

Retribution - success against all odds.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 24 août 2010 - 05:12 .

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...



Project Lazarus. Total success. Brought Shepard back from the dead. Set up a live fire test for him and eliminated a bunch of traitors (Wilson & Co).

Researched and developed multiple weapon and equipment advanced prototypes.

Took control of Terra Firma.

Maybe I'm missing something in the supplemental material, but didn't Wilson betraying them cause the whole Lazerus attack? And if the Scientists and all of the guards and technicians had been traitors, what does that say about TIM's resource management skills and Miranda's people skills (Since at least Wilson thinks she is an 'Ice Queen')

Most of those special weapons aren't that useful, especially compared to the collector beam.

Was it really that hard for a human dominance organization to take over a human dominance political party? That's like remembering to zip up your pants on the way out of the restroom.

[Kriztaen]

I only destroyed it once....



Even on my Main Shep Paragade (70% paragon, 30% Renegade) run I kept the base.



But then I usually play the game making the mission/talking/choices the way I would do them and personally I would have kept the collector base...it is just too useful to destroy considering what is at stake.

[mosor]

[quote]Sajuro wrote...


Maybe I'm missing something in the supplemental material, but didn't Wilson betraying them cause the whole Lazerus attack? And if the Scientists and all of the guards and technicians had been traitors, what does that say about TIM's resource management skills and Miranda's people skills (Since at least Wilson thinks she is an 'Ice Queen')

Most of those special weapons aren't that useful, especially compared to the collector beam.
[/quote]


[/quote]

Only Wilson was a traitor, not the rest of the scientists and techs. As for the weapons and armor. It's a matter of preference.  As for weapons.

1. Best non-claymore shotgun

Geth Plasma Shotgun


"Shepard,

A cell of ours acquired an interesting weapon from the geth. It's much
like a shotgun, but it's higher tech -- something to do with the firing
superconductors that create plasma on impact. Its ammunition is more
specialized than those of our shotguns, but it's not hard to make or
modify. I've arranged delivery of a few of these weapons to the
Normandy.
"

2. Best Armor

Kerstel Armor

"Shepard,

Our armor technicians have had a lively debate about the Kestrel armor
system. The suit is supposed to be effective on its own merits, but the
technicians felt its shield algorithms were best exploited piecemeal in
custom arrangements by combining it with other armors. I've shipped the
Kestrel suit to the Normandy. It has modular programming so that you can
mix and match the parts you wish.
"

3. Best Sniper rifle for a squadmate

Incisor Sniper Rifle


"Shepard,

Miranda was reviewing your weapons' auto-recorded telemetry,
particularly the hit-to-kill ratio. Being the busybody she is, she sent a
request for additional firepower. The techs think something long-range
and anti-shield would be useful, so we've issued you an Incisor sniper
rifle. It will be in the Normandy's armory. Put it through its paces,
and let us know what you think."

4. A sucessful Cerberus operation that provides you with a great heavy weapon
Arc Projector

"Shepard,
We recently had an incident involving the geth at one of our
outposts in the Skyllian Verge. Don't worry; I'm not sending you off to
chase anything down. Our operatives waged a highly successful battle
against a geth scouting party and credited their success to a new
advanced electrical attack device that we finally let them take out of
the lab. Since their unit is being reassigned for some rest and
relaxation, I thought you should take custody of the weapon in the
meantime. The weapon is called an arc projector. I sent it to the
Normandy's armory so you can examine it for yourself and use it if you
deem it worthy. It's gone through plenty of tests that indicate it
overloads kinetic barriers and synthetic enemies particularly well, but
laboratory demonstrations are a poor substitute for actual field
reports. We know it works. Now we want to see what it can do in the
right hands. If all goes well, we'll use your tactics to train other
operatives."

Modifié par mosor, 24 août 2010 - 08:16 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...
didn't Wilson betraying them cause the whole Lazerus attack?

Wilson

[VanTesla]

The only true purpose of the base is to make a Reaper so blowing it up is better than having Cerberus kill thousands or millions of humans just to save humanity...



Also look how the Krogan used their new weapons that where given to them long ago....



We humans are close to the Krogans when it comes to war in manny ways so having a death weapon that we took with little knowledge or care about the future may end us all dead.

[smudboy]

VanTesla wrote...

The only true purpose of the base is to make a Reaper so blowing it up is better than having Cerberus kill thousands or millions of humans just to save humanity...

Only.  True.  Big Words.

Also look how the Krogan used their new weapons that where given to them long ago....

So you're saying we're Krogans with nuclear weapons?  Ah huh.

OMG WHAT DO WE DO WITH ALL THIS DATA?

KILL EACH OTHER?!

We humans are close to the Krogans when it comes to war in manny ways so having a death weapon that we took with little knowledge or care about the future may end us all dead.

*smashes his co-workers head against the harddrive*

THIS IS DATA!

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
didn't Wilson betraying them cause the whole Lazerus attack?

Wilson

So do you have some proof for your claim or did you pull it out of thin air? It is possible that Wilson went postal because Miranda was a royal ****.

[InHarmsWay]

Zulu_DFA wrote...



Project Lazarus. Total success. Brought Shepard back from the dead. Set up a live fire test for him and eliminated a bunch of traitors (Wilson & Co).

Still failed in a way. Shepard was supposed to be a Cerberus lackey and a symbol for Cerberus so they would look good to the galaxy and to humanity. That failed. "I should have known you would do this! Too idealistic from the start!" He just seemed so surprised that a Paragon acted like a paragon. Also Wilson may or may not have been a traitor. There was some disgruntled logs, but even then it appeared to have been for good reason. They killed Wilson without bothering to interrogate him to make sure he wasn't working for anyone else. They put themselves and Shepard in worse danger by killing Wilson when they killed him.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Assisted Jacob to thwart Batarian terrorists' plans to assassinate the Council.

I'll give you this.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Built SR-2

After basing it on SR-1 schematics. Not like making a ship is a giant deal. Hell the upgrades that get you through the suicide mission weren't even from Cerberus. The design was skimped upon. Un-upgraded, the Normandy gets torn to shreds during the suicide mission (metaphorically). It's only from using tech from the Alliance, Turians and Quarians that the ship survives.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Built EDI

I'll give you this too.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Researched and developed multiple weapon and equipment advanced prototypes.

This too.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Took control of Terra Firma.

A pro-human group taking control of a pro-human group? Wow. That will surely improve humanity's image.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Found the Derelict Reaper, recovered Reaper IFF.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand the crew who worked on it were all killed and evidence of the Reaperss disapearing with it. TIM talks about how he looks out for humanity, but this derelict Reaper could have been shown to the Alliance and the Council and once and once and for all prove the Reaper's existence. Way to go TIM.

Zulu_DFA wrote...


Found Klendagon BFG.

Which doesn't work. They found an artifact that millions of years old. Prothean tech barely lasts that long. It's useless.

[Snowship]

I trust no organisation that can't go 5 days without a workplace death to be anything other than incompetent, esp with advanced technology

[Arijharn]

It says 5 days without a workplace related incident. Incidents don't automatically mean a fatality you know. Blaming Cerberus for that is a bit much, it's like saying humanity is at fault when you're stupid and stub your toe.



Also @InHarmsWay

If you listened to EDI, you would know that SR-1 was developed by subtle prompting by Cerberus. Whether Cord-Hislop or another Cerberus front company was involved (in whole or part) is another matter; regardless the successful acquisition of those schematics would have to be deemed a success.



True, SR-2 can be improved upon by involvement from other parties, but I fail to see how that in itself is a failure on the part of Cerberus.

[bladesharks]

nhsk wrote...

Because when the cure is worse than the disease, whats the point?

Destroy humanity to save humanity?

Nah I would rather do the William Wallace thing and go down honorably than become a monster because I fighted them so long I forgot to take care.

FREEEEDOM!

[Sajuro]

Arijharn wrote...

It says 5 days without a workplace related incident. Incidents don't automatically mean a fatality you know. Blaming Cerberus for that is a bit much, it's like saying humanity is at fault when you're stupid and stub your toe.

Workplace incident means more than stubbing your toe and in that kind of work it is a nice way of saying someone was either mauled by the experiment or mauled,eaten, then crapped out.... for humanity!

[mosor]

[quote]InHarmsWay wrote...

Still failed in a way. Shepard was supposed to be a Cerberus lackey and a symbol for Cerberus so they would look good to the galaxy and to humanity. That failed. "I should have known you would do this! Too idealistic from the start!" He just seemed so surprised that a Paragon acted like a paragon. Also Wilson may or may not have been a traitor. There was some disgruntled logs, but even then it appeared to have been for good reason. They killed Wilson without bothering to interrogate him to make sure he wasn't working for anyone else. They put themselves and Shepard in worse danger by killing Wilson when they killed him.

[/quote]

Only for your Shepard. Plenty of people saved the collector base and thus ressurecting Shepard was a great investment for TIM. As for killing Wilson. Miranda is anything but impulsive. If she killed Wilson, she had irrefutable evidence and all the info she needed.



[quote]
[After basing it on SR-1 schematics. Not like making a ship is a giant deal. Hell the upgrades that get you through the suicide mission weren't even from Cerberus. The design was skimped upon. Un-upgraded, the Normandy gets torn to shreds during the suicide mission (metaphorically). It's only from using tech from the Alliance, Turians and Quarians that the ship survives.
[/quote]

No. Building a state of the art ship is a big deal.  Cerberus improved on the orginal design and installed EDI, who is probably the single most useful upgrade. As for the not surviving without the upgrades. This is patently false. The ship will surive and you too can survive the suicide mission without even a single upgrade. The only thing those upgrades do is save some of your squadmates from dying.


[quote]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand the crew who worked on it were all killed and evidence of the Reaperss disapearing with it. TIM talks about how he looks out for humanity, but this derelict Reaper could have been shown to the Alliance and the Council and once and once and for all prove the Reaper's existence. Way to go TIM.

[/quote]

It was Cerberus who found the derelict reaper. The mission was to locate an IFF for Shepard. That mission suceeded even though the personal became indoctrinated. As for the council and the need for evidence. Don't be blind. The council has plenty of evidence regarding the reapers. They chose to put their heads in the sand, and  they would find a way to put their heads in the sand again. In the meantine, they probably wouldn't let Shepard near the reaper.

[/quote]

Modifié par mosor, 25 août 2010 - 02:40 .

[JasonDaPsycho]

mosor wrote...


Only for your Shepard. Plenty of people saved the collector base and thus ressurecting Shepard was a great investment for TIM. As for killing Wilson. Miranda is anything but impulsive. If she killed Wilson, she had irrefutable evidence and all the info she needed.

Everyone has different playthroughs. Just leave it at that. No definite answer. Cerberus either has an epic fail or a win.

mosor wrote...


No. Building a state of the art ship is a big deal.  Cerberus improved on the orginal design and installed EDI, who is probably the single most useful upgrade. As for the not surviving without the upgrades. This is patently false. The ship will surive and you too can survive the suicide mission without even a single upgrade. The only thing those upgrades do is save some of your squadmates from dying.

Building that ship is no big deal IMO. That's what they do. They didn't design it. Hell all those important upgrades which keep people alive came from the crew members WHO UPGRADED THE SHIP USING THEIR OWN RESPECTIVE TECHNOLOGY. What's the point of a freaking space ship used for battles if it can't keep its personnel alive? OHHHHHHH The ship managed to land safely on the target...    AFTER ALL ITS CREW DIED. BECAUSE THE SHIP ITSELF SUCKED AWWWWWWW!!!!

mosor wrote...

It was Cerberus who found the derelict reaper. The mission was to locate an IFF for Shepard. That mission suceeded even though the personal became indoctrinated. As for the council and the need for evidence. Don't be blind. The council has plenty of evidence regarding the reapers. They chose to put their heads in the sand, and  they would find a way to put their heads in the sand again. In the meantine, they probably wouldn't let Shepard near the reaper.

It's arguable if this is considered a success or a failure. I believe the original plan doesn't require Shepard to go retrieve the IFF himself / herself. But well, he / she got it without risking casualties on his / her side. I guess you could call that a success.
As for the Council's ignorance, it's probably true.

Still I'll blow up the base, simply because I don't trust Timmy boy. You guys always get it wrong. We didn't blow the Reaper tech up because of some corny reason like "I just love fireworks." It's more of how we just can't trust Timmy boy with that kind of power. He screwed our beloved Shepard too many times and led him / her into traps when he could have just told him / her the truth. He is too shadowy and his motives are always questionable.

Btw, I've always seen Cerberus' ultimate goal as promoting human supremacy. Some of you may argue it's nothing big. It's not like their gonna kill turians because they're not humans. Remember, early racists in America had black people as their slaves and I don't think they're want to kill all those black people. After all, these people work without pay for them.
That's just my take on the whole Cerberus thing..

Modifié par JasonDaPsycho, 25 août 2010 - 04:37 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Found the Derelict Reaper, recovered Reaper IFF.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand the crew who worked on it were all killed and evidence of the Reaperss disapearing with it. TIM talks about how he looks out for humanity, but this derelict Reaper could have been shown to the Alliance and the Council and once and once and for all prove the Reaper's existence. Way to go TIM.

Wait, doesn't he say that an Alliance team originally discovered the Reaper corpse, or was it that the Alliance team just figured out that the great rift on planet {whatever} was an impact scar?

[didymos1120]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Wait, doesn't he say that an Alliance team originally discovered the Reaper corpse, or was it that the Alliance team just figured out that the great rift on planet {whatever} was an impact scar?

The Alliance team studied Klendagon apparently, and determined it was the result of an accelerator impact. It was Cerberus that later found the corpse (and the gun too).

[Zulu_DFA]

Sajuro wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
didn't Wilson betraying them cause the whole Lazerus attack?

Wilson

So do you have some proof for your claim or did you pull it out of thin air? It is possible that Wilson went postal because Miranda was a royal ****.

There are two types of people in this world. The first think that "Wilson did it for the lulz"... And the second can use logic.

[mosor]

Everyone has different playthroughs. Just leave it at that. No definite answer. Cerberus either has an epic fail or a win.

No, it's always an epic win. Regardless if Shepard gives TIM the finger or not, he stops the collector attack and saves millions. It's only a question of how much exactly Cerberus benefits, but in some way they do.

Building that ship is no big deal IMO. That's what they do. They didn't design it. Hell all those important upgrades which keep people alive came from the crew members WHO UPGRADED THE SHIP USING THEIR OWN RESPECTIVE TECHNOLOGY. What's the point of a freaking space ship used for battles if it can't keep its personnel alive? OHHHHHHH The ship managed to land safely on the target...    AFTER ALL ITS CREW DIED. BECAUSE THE SHIP ITSELF SUCKED AWWWWWWW!!!!

Uhm EDI by itself is an amazing accomplishment. As for the ship itself. You're being overly dramatic. With no upgrades, a grand total of 3 people die. That's hardly all your crew, and it's a lot better than the SR-1 when they first faced the collector ship.

It's arguable if this is considered a success or a failure. I believe the original plan doesn't require Shepard to go retrieve the IFF himself / herself. But well, he / she got it without risking casualties on his / her side. I guess you could call that a success.
As for the Council's ignorance, it's probably true.

It's not arguable. First TIM was smart enough to realize that you'd even need an IFF to get through the relay. Second his agents located a derelict reaper. Third the scientists, not only studied the reaper, but took the time to find and locate the IFF on the ship and were kind enough to leave it on the table before they were turned to husks.  I highly doubt Shepard would have survived and retrieved the IFF if the cerberus science team didn't lay down the ground work. It was pretty easy for Shepard. All he had to do was get in, get out, with minimal risk of indoctrination.

Still I'll blow up the base, simply because I don't trust Timmy boy. You guys always get it wrong. We didn't blow the Reaper tech up because of some corny reason like "I just love fireworks." It's more of how we just can't trust Timmy boy with that kind of power. He screwed our beloved Shepard too many times and led him / her into traps when he could have just told him / her the truth. He is too shadowy and his motives are always questionable.

Well there is an honest answer. The Base likely has data and intellegence to fight the reapers, but I in my wisdom deem TIM a bigger threat than a timeless race that committed galactic genocide countless times, because I think TIM is a two bit racist. Therefore, I'm going to destroy the base.

Modifié par mosor, 25 août 2010 - 06:29 .

[Nightwriter]

In real life you'd be right. In fiction... not so much.

[Skyblade012]

mosor wrote...

Still I'll blow up the base, simply because I don't trust Timmy boy. You guys always get it wrong. We didn't blow the Reaper tech up because of some corny reason like "I just love fireworks." It's more of how we just can't trust Timmy boy with that kind of power. He screwed our beloved Shepard too many times and led him / her into traps when he could have just told him / her the truth. He is too shadowy and his motives are always questionable.

Well there is an honest answer. The Base likely has data and intellegence to fight the reapers, but I in my wisdom deem TIM a bigger threat than a timeless race that committed galactic genocide countless times, because I think TIM is a two bit racist. Therefore, I'm going to destroy the base.

Um, that has been the single most-cited reason in this thread.  Did you somehow not notice it until now?

[didymos1120]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
didn't Wilson betraying them cause the whole Lazerus attack?

Wilson

So do you have some proof for your claim or did you pull it out of thin air? It is possible that Wilson went postal because Miranda was a royal ****.

There are two types of people in this world. The first think that "Wilson did it for the lulz"... And the second can use logic.

There's at least one more type: people who think that other people who divide the world into only two types of people are being overly reductionist prats.  Not to put too fine a point on it. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 25 août 2010 - 07:24 .

[mosor]

Skyblade012 wrote...

mosor wrote...

Still I'll blow up the base, simply because I don't trust Timmy boy. You guys always get it wrong. We didn't blow the Reaper tech up because of some corny reason like "I just love fireworks." It's more of how we just can't trust Timmy boy with that kind of power. He screwed our beloved Shepard too many times and led him / her into traps when he could have just told him / her the truth. He is too shadowy and his motives are always questionable.

Well there is an honest answer. The Base likely has data and intellegence to fight the reapers, but I in my wisdom deem TIM a bigger threat than a timeless race that committed galactic genocide countless times, because I think TIM is a two bit racist. Therefore, I'm going to destroy the base.

Um, that has been the single most-cited reason in this thread.  Did you somehow not notice it until now?

No I noticed it, but most people color their reason by saying either Cerberus is inept, Base will indoctrinate, fireworks blah blah blah because deep down most people know it's foolish to destroy a base that probably has vital intellegence on the greatest enemy to face the galaxy.  Very few people admit they just do it because they don't like TIM and want to spite him.

Modifié par mosor, 25 août 2010 - 07:51 .

[Ieldra]

mosor wrote...
Well there is an honest answer. The Base likely has data and intellegence to fight the reapers, but I in my wisdom deem TIM a bigger threat than a timeless race that committed galactic genocide countless times, because I think TIM is a two bit racist. Therefore, I'm going to destroy the base.

Yeah, that's what the reasoning for destroying the base comes down to. I'd really like to see fatal consequences of this in ME3.

[Kusy]

Ieldra2 wrote...

mosor wrote...
Well there is an honest answer. The Base likely has data and intellegence to fight the reapers, but I in my wisdom deem TIM a bigger threat than a timeless race that committed galactic genocide countless times, because I think TIM is a two bit racist. Therefore, I'm going to destroy the base.

Yeah, that's what the reasoning for destroying the base comes down to. I'd really like to see fatal consequences of this in ME3.

Reapers are something abstract. Omnipotent machines... sheesh... whatever. Now we all know what humans with power are capable of.