3478 réponses à ce sujet

[pf17456]

mosor wrote...
Well there is an honest answer. The Base likely has data and intellegence to fight the reapers, but I in my wisdom deem TIM a bigger threat than a timeless race that committed galactic genocide countless times, because I think TIM is a two bit racist. Therefore, I'm going to destroy the base.

Well there is an honest answer. The Base likely has data and intellegence to fight the reapers, but I in my wisdom deem TIM a bigger threat than a timeless race that committed galactic genocide countless times, because TIM is a meglamaniac who will likely try to build his own reaper with a consequence of ushering in the reaper fleet in the process. Power mongers should not have new toys they're not responsible enough to play with. Therefore I'll destroy the base.

[MrnDvlDg161]

From an intelegence/military stand point, it would indeed be logical to have done something to eradicate the Protheon tools in order to study the hardware of the base, any data, and Reaper tech...


...the problem is, as I saw what happened to the last Cerberus bunch who technically did this very same thing to a roaming Reaper vessel,  the living technology both phyisically and psychologically transformed the crew into indoctrinated Husks! 

The fact is despite the advanced races in the alliance, the Reaper/Protheon technology is obviously misunderstood and any tinkering that was done ended up with the tinkerer destroyed and/or indoctrinated. So who is to say that the Reaper or...in this case we can assume its name is  " Harbinger" or what ever it wants to be, probably litered the place with many psychic traps and/or  technology that would have corrupted those who attempted to weild their power.  Sort of like a Trojan Horse than a prized asset to intelegence.

Look what almost happend with the Reaper IFF.

Also, just because something that massive blew up does not mean the technology in it was destroyed, its just that you have to work harder sifting through the pieces...so its not like they have nothing to work on and they did have the technology to bring not only Shepard back... but Arachnai and everything else that was suppsoed to be exinct!  So I imagine this TMI could probably do what the Reapers did and grow their own Protheons from that stand point.

So yes, I believed the station, what it represented in regards to a  Human Holocaust death camp, and the mysterious dangers that could occur if it were attempted to be controlled wasn't worth the effort of keeping it alive.  Shepard has been doing ok so far by doing it the right way and if they were paying any attnetion to the Protheon AI, I'm willing to bet that data would be far easier to figure out for better means...

Unfortunately that data is shared information via the Galaxy where as this ego manic wanted some  " Pro-Human"  initiave --- and I have to say, whats to stop him from hating other humans in an attempt to be some quasi-demi god of the galaxy?

No one.

Remember this as well,  the crazed  Admerials of the Migrant Fleet gave an interesting e-mail to Shepard about doing more than just taking back their homeworld, makes you wonder if that collector tech and Geth tech was seasoned with a little Reaper-dom too.

So  blowing it up?  Hell yes.  F----k  the TIM.

And you know what else was interesting?  Remember they said Illos shut it self down?  Did not the Protheon AI shut it down when it sensned that the seekers of it were for power hungry/evil intent?  I'm guessting whom ever the alliance sent down there, they must have telegraphed their extra plans of galactic domination in the process and that is why the AI shut down.

Things will get interesting in ME3 for sure.

[mosor]

pf17456 wrote...

 Power mongers should not have new toys they're not responsible enough to play with. Therefore I'll destroy the base.

In other words, you're saying TIM is the bigger threat to the galaxy than the reapers. Gotcha.

[MrnDvlDg161]

I wouldn't say TIM is the bigger threat, more or less a ****** in the armor that would help the Reapers rather than being helpful.



His goals are questionable. He would be more willing to develop a quasi-Final Solution job on the matter and like Shepard ended the game, " I'll win this war without selling the soul of our species"



The less angles that are given for the Reapers to exploit, the better off of a position for the rest of the Galaxy to attempt a counter measure that works.

[mosor]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

mosor wrote...
Well there is an honest answer. The Base likely has data and intellegence to fight the reapers, but I in my wisdom deem TIM a bigger threat than a timeless race that committed galactic genocide countless times, because I think TIM is a two bit racist. Therefore, I'm going to destroy the base.

Yeah, that's what the reasoning for destroying the base comes down to. I'd really like to see fatal consequences of this in ME3.

Reapers are something abstract. Omnipotent machines... sheesh... whatever. Now we all know what humans with power are capable of.

Genocide is hardly something abstract, especially for repeat offenders like the reapers. We all know what humans in power are capable of doing. Obliteration of all sentient life in the galaxy isn't one of them.

Modifié par mosor, 25 août 2010 - 10:45 .

[Turkey Braveheart]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Still failed in a way. Shepard was supposed to be a Cerberus lackey and a symbol for Cerberus so they would look good to the galaxy and to humanity. That failed. "I should have known you would do this! Too idealistic from the start!" He just seemed so surprised that a Paragon acted like a paragon. Also Wilson may or may not have been a traitor. There was some disgruntled logs, but even then it appeared to have been for good reason. They killed Wilson without bothering to interrogate him to make sure he wasn't working for anyone else. They put themselves and Shepard in worse danger by killing Wilson when they killed him.

1. TIM wanted him to be the Paragon or Renegade he had been, not a mindless lackey. He said as much.
2. Keeping him alive, with no means to restrain him was a threat to Shepard--their 4 billion credit investment.

A pro-human group taking control of a pro-human group? Wow. That will surely improve humanity's image.

Who cares about their image. Taking over TF increased their power, funds and manpower.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand the crew who worked on it were all killed and evidence of the Reaperss disapearing with it. TIM talks about how he looks out for humanity, but this derelict Reaper could have been shown to the Alliance and the Council and once and once and for all prove the Reaper's existence. Way to go TIM.

I think he should have turned it over, but why would the Council be convinced the baby Reaper when the full grown version didn't? In fact, this was built by the Collectors, a mysterious people with advanced technology. The council might just assume Sovereign and the Baby were both built by the Collectors. That would neatly explain their reemergence and it's hard to dismiss since so little is known about the Collectors.

[Mithrennon]

Could I have kept it for myself, or given it to a faction of my choosing, I would have. I don't approve of anything that happened on it, but I'd take it and make it into something good rather than blow it up an waste it.

But give it to TIM, of all people?

I already have to fight the reapers, I don't have time to waste on TIM with mini-me reaper (collector) tech first.

With all the other crap that's happening I just have bigger fish to fry.

[smudboy]

Mithrennon wrote...

Could I have kept it for myself, or given it to a faction of my choosing, I would have. I don't approve of anything that happened on it, but I'd take it and make it into something good rather than blow it up an waste it.
But give it to TIM, of all people?
I already have to fight the reapers, I don't have time to waste on TIM with mini-me reaper (collector) tech first.
With all the other crap that's happening I just have bigger fish to fry.

So you want to fight the Reapers, but don't have time to waste on TIM with...what?

Once again, the only reason is: I dislike TIM.

What other crap is happening?  You mean that whole end of the galaxy thing via the Big Bad?  You want to blow up the factory that makes Big Bad guys, because you have problems with one human?

*goes and gets the string quartet*

[Onyx Jaguar]

I destroy it for the phat lewts and boobage

[Mithrennon]

smudboy wrote...


So you want to fight the Reapers, but don't have time to waste on TIM with...what?

Once again, the only reason is: I dislike TIM.

What other crap is happening?  You mean that whole end of the galaxy thing via the Big Bad?  You want to blow up the factory that makes Big Bad guys, because you have problems with one human?

*goes and gets the string quartet*

"Takes a step back*
Ok. No more ill fated attempts at humour.
Let me try and rephrase it.

I called the collectors mini-me reapers because their level of technology is below that of the actual reapers.

Once TIM gets reaper tech, I don't put it past him to do something stupid (again), and it will be up to me to stop him, only this time he might have a tech upgrade that would make it take longer to take him out (not that it wouldn't be an eventuality anyway).

I don't care for liking or disliking him personally, but I don't trust him, his judgement or his abilities. If you want to reduce that to "not liking him", go ahead.

And the other crap that is happening, yes, the reapers, plus everthing that needs to be done prior to actually fighting them, like amassing allies, finding a way to actually beat them, that sort of thing.
And that one single human is indeed a problem, because of that little rogue black ops organization plus assorted billions of credits he has at his disposal since there doesn't seem to be anyone or anything that stops him from following his every whim at using and abusing that power.
Again, while I prefer cooperation with aliens I wouldn't be above giving the base to humans first, but TIM is not humanity. TIM is TIM.

[bladesharks]

why?
Why do people destroy the Collector base?
that's easy because it's so much fun to ****** the illusive man off


and to hell with the reapers ill kill them anyways or my name is not gord.. no i mean   shepard freeman
..i mean shepard just shepard

Modifié par bladesharks, 27 août 2010 - 12:44 .

[smudboy]

Mithrennon wrote...

I called the collectors mini-me reapers because their level of technology is below that of the actual reapers.

And their technology (which comes from the Reapers) makes Reapers, making their technology = Reaper technology.

Once TIM gets reaper tech, I don't put it past him to do something stupid (again), and it will be up to me to stop him, only this time he might have a tech upgrade that would make it take longer to take him out (not that it wouldn't be an eventuality anyway).

TIM rebuilding Shepard was stupid?  TIM re-creating the Normandy was stupid?  TIM researching a dead Reaper (!) was stupid?  Yeah, lot of stupidity going on.

I don't care for liking or disliking him personally, but I don't trust him, his judgement or his abilities. If you want to reduce that to "not liking him", go ahead.

I will continue to shove it in your face as this personal bias retards your thinking.

And the other crap that is happening, yes, the reapers, plus everthing that needs to be done prior to actually fighting them, like amassing allies, finding a way to actually beat them, that sort of thing.

Exactly.

And that one single human is indeed a problem, because of that little rogue black ops organization plus assorted billions of credits he has at his disposal since there doesn't seem to be anyone or anything that stops him from following his every whim at using and abusing that power.

Did you not just read what you wrote before?  Amassing allies?  Cerberus is your ally.  They're the ONLY ally.  But you want to ****** off TIM because you don't like him, and are "scared" that he'll abuse his power with the base.

I'll take one power hungry human who can stop the IMMORTAL MACHINE SPECIES THAT KILL EVERYTHING, FOREVER, on principle.  Hell, I'll take a hundred.

Again, while I prefer cooperation with aliens I wouldn't be above giving the base to humans first, but TIM is not humanity. TIM is TIM.

"Hello, my nickname is Mithrennon, I have a Cerberus problem."
"Yes Mithrennon, but the universe is going to be destroyed and..."
"Shut up!"

[ODST 5723]

I blow up the base because the tech is too advanced to fall into the wrong hands, there's a dead proto-Reaper in the bottom of it and because there's nothing that tells me that it can't be controlled by or further utilized by the Reapers themselves (including indoctrination).



That's before I even get to the question of whether or not, if the previous concerns aren't valid, the universe will use the tech they get from this base wisely.



From my perspective, there's too much unknown involved that makes it a potential threat or liability for the coming war. It's not even tempting to keep it because of that.

[mosor]

ODST 5723 wrote...

I blow up the base because the tech is too advanced to fall into the wrong hands, there's a dead proto-Reaper in the bottom of it and because there's nothing that tells me that it can't be controlled by or further utilized by the Reapers themselves (including indoctrination).

That's before I even get to the question of whether or not, if the previous concerns aren't valid, the universe will use the tech they get from this base wisely.

From my perspective, there's too much unknown involved that makes it a potential threat or liability for the coming war. It's not even tempting to keep it because of that.

You'd rather face that unknown when it's coming out a barrel of a reaper ship or face it now when they're not around? Personally I'd rather know what exactly I'm up against when the final confrontation happens.

[Mithrennon]

Edit: Eh....I suck at using quotes right...

[/quote]
And their technology (which comes from the Reapers) makes Reapers, making their technology = Reaper technology.

If the reapers aren't any more advanced than the collectors, than beating them will be a cakewalk and all arguments over the base are a waste of time.

[/quote]
TIM rebuilding Shepard was stupid?  TIM re-creating the Normandy was stupid?  TIM researching a dead Reaper (!) was stupid?  Yeah, lot of stupidity going on.

Rebuilding Shepard was pretty stupid, yes, but that's better left for all the threads complaining about that.
I do admit though that applying in game logic, with Shepard being the best leader ever and all that, it was a good move. Getting back to that later.

Rebuilding the Normandy wasn't exactly that smart either, since the one defining feature it had was stealth, and if even the collectors weren't fooled by that, the reapers definitely wouldn't be.
Any other frigate or other warship that he could have bought much cheaper would have done everything the Normandy has, and just as well or better.
That, and considering how many planets I had to strip bare to upgrade it to make it useful, I'd rather have gotten a better ship right away.
On the other hand pushing for building the FIRST Normandy, that was a smart move on his behalf, I'll happily admit that.

Also, studying the dead reaper was so basic common sense that it doesn't prove anything considering him being stupid. How he went about it however does.


[/quote]
I will continue to shove it in your face as this personal bias retards your thinking.

See that is what I don't get. First I was trying to be funny, which I guess I wasn't. Then I was just trying to express myself better to clear things up. And both times you just come across as rude.
I can agree to disagree you know.


[/quote]
Did you not just read what you wrote before?  Amassing allies?  Cerberus is your ally.  They're the ONLY ally.  But you want to ****** off TIM because you don't like him, and are "scared" that he'll abuse his power with the base.

I'll take one power hungry human who can stop the IMMORTAL MACHINE SPECIES THAT KILL EVERYTHING, FOREVER, on principle.  Hell, I'll take a hundred.


Cerberus didn't do anything at all that I couldn't have done by myself, other than of course be brought back from the dead.
Hm. Maybe I shouldn't have said it first person.
My point is that the game makes very clear that Shepard is the best and brightest and the one big leader that can do what needs to be done. Much better than TIM ever will. If he wasn't, than the player would be controling TIM, not Shepard.  Wether you agree to that or not, that's just the kind of game it is.

Remember the "fall in line or stand aside" you can tell TIM?
TIM is not the key to beating the reapers, Shepard is. Cerberus is powerful and dangerous because it operates in a more or less civilized society, and piggybacks on it. It has money, and few but well placed people in the right positions.
That all means squat when faced by an external foe like the reapers.
The kind of allies that are needed are on a different scale alltogether, and none of them would be willing to follow TIM, or any of his flunkies.
Shepard on the other hand...


[/quote]
"Hello, my nickname is Mithrennon, I have a Cerberus problem."
"Yes Mithrennon, but the universe is going to be destroyed and..."
"Shut up!"
[/quote]

*sigh*
Nevermind then.

Modifié par Mithrennon, 27 août 2010 - 10:18 .

[smudboy]

[quote]
And their technology (which comes from the Reapers) makes Reapers, making their technology = Reaper technology.

If the reapers aren't any more advanced than the collectors, than beating them will be a cakewalk and all arguments over the base are a waste of time.
[/quote]
1. Their technology comes from the Reapers.  THAT doesn't mean the technology the Collectors use is equal to Reapers technology.
2. Their technology (1) builds Reapers.  Thus it IS Reaper tech.

Now that's not to say Collectors can't possess technology on par with Reapers; we simply don't know the exact difference.  The fact we don't know is already an argument in favor of keeping the base: TO F*CKING LEARN.

[quote]
TIM rebuilding Shepard was stupid?  TIM re-creating the Normandy was stupid?  TIM researching a dead Reaper (!) was stupid?  Yeah, lot of stupidity going on.

Rebuilding Shepard was pretty stupid, yes, but that's better left for all the threads complaining about that.
I do admit though that applying in game logic, with Shepard being the best leader ever and all that, it was a good move. Getting back to that later.
[/quote]
I agree.  But they still succeeded.

[quote]
Rebuilding the Normandy wasn't exactly that smart either, since the one defining feature it had was stealth, and if even the collectors weren't fooled by that, the reapers definitely wouldn't be.
[/quote]
Again I agree, yet the results speak for themselves.

[quote]
Any other frigate or other warship that he could have bought much cheaper would have done everything the Normandy has, and just as well or better.
[/quote]
Although I do like where you're going with this, I would automatically disagree by your own token of it being "stealth."

[quote]
That, and considering how many planets I had to strip bare to upgrade it to make it useful, I'd rather have gotten a better ship right away.
[/quote]
Upgrades to Normandy SR2 do not make it more useful, just keep it from killing your crew. (Blame the AWESOME PLOT for that one.)

[quote]
On the other hand pushing for building the FIRST Normandy, that was a smart move on his behalf, I'll happily admit that.
[/quote]
+1 Cerberus, yay.

[quote]
Also, studying the dead reaper was so basic common sense that it doesn't prove anything considering him being stupid. How he went about it however does.
[/quote]
Yes, he's so stupid for studying the dead Reaper.  How dare he and his stupidty come up with this common sensical idea...

I guess if he didn't take such common sense he'd be a F*CKING GENIUS?


[quote]
I will continue to shove it in your face as this personal bias retards your thinking.

See that is what I don't get. First I was trying to be funny, which I guess I wasn't. Then I was just trying to express myself better to clear things up. And both times you just come across as rude.
I can agree to disagree you know.
[/quote]
I cannot, and I don't care how you think of me.  Your a Cerberus/TIM bias is comical, but people are hilarious so I don't hold it against you: I just call your thinking retarded and biased and move on.

[quote]
Did you not just read what you wrote before?  Amassing allies?  Cerberus is your ally.  They're the ONLY ally.  But you want to ****** off TIM because you don't like him, and are "scared" that he'll abuse his power with the base.

I'll take one power hungry human who can stop the IMMORTAL MACHINE SPECIES THAT KILL EVERYTHING, FOREVER, on principle.  Hell, I'll take a hundred.

Cerberus didn't do anything at all that I couldn't have done by myself, other than of course be brought back from the dead.
Hm. Maybe I shouldn't have said it first person.
[/quote]
1. Resurrect yourself?
2. Build you a new ship?

Oh wait, you were...dead.  Yeah.  Sorry.

FAILURE OF ARGUMENT VIA LACK OF ABILITY TO SELF-RESURRECT YOURSELF!

[quote]
My point is that the game makes very clear that Shepard is the best and brightest and the one big leader that can do what needs to be done. Much better than TIM ever will. If he wasn't, than the player would be controling TIM, not Shepard.  Wether you agree to that or not, that's just the kind of game it is.
[/quote]
No the game doesn't.  That's just TIM's or Miranda's small conversation, and then Miranda rambling on about how special you are, yet the game never proves this to the audience.

[quote]
Remember the "fall in line or stand aside" you can tell TIM?
TIM is not the key to beating the reapers, Shepard is. Cerberus is powerful and dangerous because it operates in a more or less civilized society, and piggybacks on it. It has money, and few but well placed people in the right positions.
That all means squat when faced by an external foe like the reapers.
[/quote]
Yet without TIM none of this would've been possible.  Without TIM ME2 wouldn't have happened, and everything in between.  You are failing on the ENTIRE (attempt at a premise of a ) PLOT.  Without Cerberus, Shepard wouldn't exist.  Now that's not to say anyone else couldn't have taken Shepard's place...but that's not how events happened, especially if you're arguing that Shepard is The Key.

[quote]
The kind of allies that are needed are on a different scale alltogether, and none of them would be willing to follow TIM, or any of his flunkies.
Shepard on the other hand...
[/quote]
No one's saying you don't need allies.  Your retarded view that you don't need TIM as an ally, simply because he's not on the "scale" of whatever understanding of "ally" is, is nonsensical.  If you need allies, you GET THEM.  LOTS.  AS MANY AS YOU CAN.  None of this illogical, "oh, well, OBVIOUSLY Cerberus is not the ALLY for THIS kind of operation."  It's cherry picking on some ill-conceived idea of what some future war might be, simply because of your pathetic Cerberus/TIM bias.

The story railroads you down the several side stories of Cerberus projects.  Most aren't very pretty, but they're all for advancing technology, people, and knowledge.  I'm not a huge fan of Cerberus either, but their goal is results.  I may not like how we get there, but they get there.  Which is exactly what a doomsday scenario needs: an organization of people risking it all to survive.

[quote]
"Hello, my nickname is Mithrennon, I have a Cerberus problem."
"Yes Mithrennon, but the universe is going to be destroyed and..."
"Shut up!"

*sigh*
Nevermind then.

[/quote]
Gotcha.

Modifié par smudboy, 27 août 2010 - 11:05 .

[Mithrennon]

[/quote]
1. Their technology comes from the Reapers.  THAT doesn't mean the technology the Collectors use is equal to Reapers technology.
2. Their technology (1) builds Reapers.  Thus it IS Reaper tech.

Now that's not to say Collectors can't possess technology on par with Reapers; we simply don't know the exact difference.  The fact we don't know is already an argument in favor of keeping the base: TO F*CKING LEARN.

Building the reaper itself, yes that was reaper tech, no argument there. But the rest of their stuff seems way too easy to defeat to be from the reapers. I was assuming (yes I admit we don't know for sure) that the rest was repurposed protean tech.
Also, since the current theory seems to be that the human form would be surrounded by a shell that would look like the other reapers, and there definitely wasn't enough room anywhere in that base for something the size of an adult reaper I'm pretty sure that they only would make the human form in there and then the actual reapers would provide the shell.
And since the larva was easily defeated with handguns, it's probably safe to assume that all the good stuff is in the shell.

Either way, if I could have decided who gets the base I might not have destroyed it, but since I spent a good number of missions terminating TIMs failed and runaway research projects I just don't want to have to go after yet another one, especially since, reaper tech or not aside, it would be more advanced and thus dangerous than whatever he did before.


Although I do like where you're going with this, I would automatically disagree by your own token of it being "stealth."

Would you mind clarifying? Other than the stealth, what makes the Normandy significantly different than any other frigate out there?


Upgrades to Normandy SR2 do not make it more useful, just keep it from killing your crew. (Blame the AWESOME PLOT for that one.)

Let me rephrase it. They don't make it any more useful gameplay wise, but stronger shields, armour and weapons do make it a better ship.


Yes, he's so stupid for studying the dead Reaper.  How dare he and his stupidty come up with this common sensical idea...

I guess if he didn't take such common sense he'd be a F*CKING GENIUS?

Again, as I said. Studying the dead reaper was common sense, not stupid. Not smart either. Just common sense.

My point was that if he had taken proper precautions, there might have been a whole lot that could have been learned from the dead reaper. As it ended up, the only option was to completely destroy it, only barely saving the IFF, or die with it.

That kind of shows you why I wouldn't want him to get the base.
Even without the reapers TIMs failed projects would be a serious thread to galactic stability.
Fortunately he has Shepard to clean up his messes


I cannot, and I don't care how you think of me.  Your a Cerberus/TIM bias is comical, but people are hilarious so I don't hold it against you: I just call your thinking retarded and biased and move on.

Well thanks for clarifying then. See I usually don't respond much and only read stuff that interests me.
It's easy to misread things if a conversation isn't face to face.
I wouldn't call this here hilarious, but it's definitely entertaining ^-^
And don't worry, I've got thick skin, so the don't care how you think of me is mutual.


1. Resurrect yourself?
2. Build you a new ship?

Oh wait, you were...dead.  Yeah.  Sorry.

FAILURE OF ARGUMENT VIA LACK OF ABILITY TO SELF-RESURRECT YOURSELF!

See I agree that once every blue moon something good can come out of cerberus, but that doesn't mean that they need to stick around and can mess things up again.


No the game doesn't.  That's just TIM's or Miranda's small conversation, and then Miranda rambling on about how special you are, yet the game never proves this to the audience.

I took that on the lines of the game stating the axiom on which it is based.
Besides, pleny of conversations during the game follow the same train of thought, although not necessarily in those same words.

Yet without TIM none of this would've been possible.  Without TIM ME2 wouldn't have happened, and everything in between.  You are failing on the ENTIRE (attempt at a premise of a ) PLOT.  Without Cerberus, Shepard wouldn't exist.  Now that's not to say anyone else couldn't have taken Shepard's place...but that's not how events happened, especially if you're arguing that Shepard is The Key.

I'm aware than they resurrected Shepard. My point is that this doesn't mean they get to stick around, not with the rest of their track record.

No one's saying you don't need allies.  Your retarded view that you don't need TIM as an ally, simply because he's not on the "scale" of whatever understanding of "ally" is, is nonsensical.  If you need allies, you GET THEM.  LOTS.  AS MANY AS YOU CAN.  None of this illogical, "oh, well, OBVIOUSLY Cerberus is not the ALLY for THIS kind of operation."  It's cherry picking on some ill-conceived idea of what some future war might be, simply because of your pathetic Cerberus/TIM bias.

An ally like that would hold the overall cause back more than furthering it. You might not get that impression, but the reason I don't want cerberus around is because I am result oriented, not the other way around. I have moral objections too, but they aren't my main motivations.

The story railroads you down the several side stories of Cerberus projects.  Most aren't very pretty, but they're all for advancing technology, people, and knowledge.  I'm not a huge fan of Cerberus either, but their goal is results.  I may not like how we get there, but they get there.  Which is exactly what a doomsday scenario needs: an organization of people risking it all to survive.

My point is that they DON'T get there, and if they do, then with unnecesary costs. They always seem to need to have low security, very little structure and supervision, and if there is a less ethical approach they'll take it, even if it won't give them any advantages.
Some of that I chalk up to bad writing, yes, but if I did that with everything there wouldn't be any game left.

[quote]
"Hello, my nickname is Mithrennon, I have a Cerberus problem."
"Yes Mithrennon, but the universe is going to be destroyed and..."
"Shut up!"

*sigh*
Nevermind then.

[/quote]
Gotcha.

[/quote]

You see why that's funny? Normaly when someone starts with "Hi my name is ****** and I have a problem" they talk about something they're addicted to and want to stop.

Anyway, I've never nor would I ever tell you to shut up.
Cause that'd be rude ^-^

[Sajuro]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
didn't Wilson betraying them cause the whole Lazerus attack?

Wilson

So do you have some proof for your claim or did you pull it out of thin air? It is possible that Wilson went postal because Miranda was a royal ****.

There are two types of people in this world. The first think that "Wilson did it for the lulz"... And the second can use logic.

So people who didn't play Mass Effect 2 aren't people . I didn't say Wilson did it for the lulz, since that isn't the only reason people do things, unless of course you're saying you are the first type.
FYI, there are two kinds of people in this world
Those who think the world can be grouped into two kinds of people and
everyone else.

[anmiro]

I think that at the core of all the important Renegade and Paragon choices through both ME1 and ME2 are the same basic questions, "Do you consider the other alien races to be your allies or can humanity achieve victory on it's own? And, are you willing to sacrifice your own humanity for the sake of victory?"



I chose to destroy the base for the same reason that I chose to save the Council. I don't believe that humanity can defeat the Reapers on their own. I believe the only way to defeat the reapers is to unite the different races of the galaxy and to form a unified front against the coming invasion (which is where I believe the Paragon story is headed.) I think that handing over a weapon of mass destruction to TIM, who's goal of securing human dominance in the galaxy is second only to defeating the Reapers, would severely undermine my goals.

[smudboy]

anmiro wrote...

I think that at the core of all the important Renegade and Paragon choices through both ME1 and ME2 are the same basic questions, "Do you consider the other alien races to be your allies or can humanity achieve victory on it's own? And, are you willing to sacrifice your own humanity for the sake of victory?"

I chose to destroy the base for the same reason that I chose to save the Council. I don't believe that humanity can defeat the Reapers on their own. I believe the only way to defeat the reapers is to unite the different races of the galaxy and to form a unified front against the coming invasion (which is where I believe the Paragon story is headed.) I think that handing over a weapon of mass destruction to TIM, who's goal of securing human dominance in the galaxy is second only to defeating the Reapers, would severely undermine my goals.

1. Stop Reapers.
2. Secure human dominance.

Undermine your goals?  Your goal is #1.  That's Cerberus' (according to you.)  How is one less a priority than deuce?

[ExtremeOne]

smudboy wrote...

anmiro wrote...

I think that at the core of all the important Renegade and Paragon choices through both ME1 and ME2 are the same basic questions, "Do you consider the other alien races to be your allies or can humanity achieve victory on it's own? And, are you willing to sacrifice your own humanity for the sake of victory?"

I chose to destroy the base for the same reason that I chose to save the Council. I don't believe that humanity can defeat the Reapers on their own. I believe the only way to defeat the reapers is to unite the different races of the galaxy and to form a unified front against the coming invasion (which is where I believe the Paragon story is headed.) I think that handing over a weapon of mass destruction to TIM, who's goal of securing human dominance in the galaxy is second only to defeating the Reapers, would severely undermine my goals.

1. Stop Reapers.
2. Secure human dominance.

Undermine your goals?  Your goal is #1.  That's Cerberus' (according to you.)  How is one less a priority than deuce?

  


hell yeah I say lets keep the base and use its tech to kill the reapers. the alien lead council of stupid clowns and its puppets the alliance can go screw theme selfs 

[mosor]

Commander Bond wrote...

Whoa, people really break down the situation here. Personally, my squadmates peer pressure me into it.

Listening to your squadmates just screws you over. They hardly ever give good advice during the game. Why is the base choice any different?

[anmiro]

smudboy wrote...

anmiro wrote...

I think that at the core of all the important Renegade and Paragon choices through both ME1 and ME2 are the same basic questions, "Do you consider the other alien races to be your allies or can humanity achieve victory on it's own? And, are you willing to sacrifice your own humanity for the sake of victory?"

I chose to destroy the base for the same reason that I chose to save the Council. I don't believe that humanity can defeat the Reapers on their own. I believe the only way to defeat the reapers is to unite the different races of the galaxy and to form a unified front against the coming invasion (which is where I believe the Paragon story is headed.) I think that handing over a weapon of mass destruction to TIM, who's goal of securing human dominance in the galaxy is second only to defeating the Reapers, would severely undermine my goals.

1. Stop Reapers.
2. Secure human dominance.

Undermine your goals?  Your goal is #1.  That's Cerberus' (according to you.)  How is one less a priority than deuce?

I think the only reason this seems like a tough choice is that you never hear an alternative strategy for victory.  As I stated in my earlier post, I believe the Paragon Shepard's goal is to unite all the different races to fight the Reapers. I think handing over a weapon of mass destruction to a terrorist organization that is universally untrusted by every race in the galaxy could severely undermine that goal. 

[G Kevin]

Disassembling takes time, time which we don't have.