3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

If it means selling my soul to live, I'd take my chances.

At least you and the entire galaxy can die knowing you didn't sell your soul by using a weapon when it was given.

[SpiderFan1217]

smudboy wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

I fail to see the point in doing it. Preserving the base seemed convientient and perhaps increased the chances of getting collector weapons and tech in ME3. I don't get why the majority of the community destroy it. The last person I asked just said it was "to get a more satifying explosion" but it seems like more than that.

If you had the option to take/steal Satan's powers would you do it? Like his powers the technology is  evil. I destroy it every time.

(I reallly hope I spelled Satan right.)

So is a gun evil?  What makes Satan's powers evil?  What makes the base evil?  What makes any weapon evil?  What makes my shoelace evil?

There is nothing good or bad about anything.  In regards to a tool, it's how it's used that puts it in a context.  Shoelaces are pretty handy in tying up shoes.  They're also pretty good in strangling people, I hear.

Srsly, a shoelace to starangle someone? That is messed up. And the tech on the base is used to turn peoples into crazed evil galaxy ruling machines. EVIL!!

[Dave of Canada]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

And the tech on the base is used to turn peoples into crazed evil galaxy ruling machines. EVIL!!

But blowing it up won't bring back the dead and using the base's knowledge on how to combat the Reapers could effectively save more lives in the long run, it's not like TIM is going to create his own Reaper.

[SpiderFan1217]

Dave of Canada wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

If it means selling my soul to live, I'd take my chances.

At least you and the entire galaxy can die knowing you didn't sell your soul by using a weapon when it was given.

Do ypu mean in the game or the Satan senario? Cause Shep can save the Galaxy without the tech. If Satan is coming we don't really stand a chance without the aid of a higher power.

[SpiderFan1217]

Dave of Canada wrote...

 it's not like TIM is going to create his own Reaper.

This statement caught my eye for some reason.

[Iakus]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

 it's not like TIM is going to create his own Reaper.

This statement caught my eye for some reason.

Yeah, I can absolutely see TIM doing so, if he thought he could control it

[Killjoy Cutter]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

If you had the option to take/steal Satan's powers would you do it? Like his powers the technology is  evil. I destroy it every time.

Really hard to go with this example but I'll try...

If Satan was coming to destroy all life and you were given a chance to find out what his powers were and how to use them yourself, would you rather take your chances?

If it means selling my soul to live, I'd take my chances.

And it's not just your soul you'd be risking -- it's the soul of every post-stone-age living being in the galaxy.

[upsettingshorts]

I can't picture TIM producing a human reaper at all.

And if the Bioware writers went that route, I'd totally wag my fingers at them.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:24 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

iakus wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

 it's not like TIM is going to create his own Reaper.

This statement caught my eye for some reason.

Yeah, I can absolutely see TIM doing so, if he thought he could control it

Hey, if that's what it takes to save humanity, right? 

[Count Viceroy]

iakus wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

 it's not like TIM is going to create his own Reaper.

This statement caught my eye for some reason.

Yeah, I can absolutely see TIM doing so, if he thought he could control it

Considering what they did in retribution, I'd say they already tried.

[SpiderFan1217]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I can't picture TIM producing a human reaper at all.

And if the Bioware writers went that route, I'd totally wag my fingers at them.

  Not the finger wag!!! Noooooo!!!!! 

[SpiderFan1217]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

iakus wrote...

SpiderFan1217 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

 it's not like TIM is going to create his own Reaper.

This statement caught my eye for some reason.

Yeah, I can absolutely see TIM doing so, if he thought he could control it

Hey, if that's what it takes to save humanity, right? 

So you don't want to stop the reapers. You want to replace them?

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, I'm breaking out the serious threats with that one.

[Mondo47]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I can't picture TIM producing a human reaper at all.

And if the Bioware writers went that route, I'd totally wag my fingers at them.

Nah, it won't be a human Reaper. TIM wants human dominance after all, he's not going to blenderise people to make a war machine... it'll be made out of turians. Or volus maybe. Or...

[Dave of Canada]

Mondo47 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I can't picture TIM producing a human reaper at all.

And if the Bioware writers went that route, I'd totally wag my fingers at them.

Nah, it won't be a human Reaper. TIM wants human dominance after all, he's not going to blenderise people to make a war machine... it'll be made out of turians. Or volus maybe. Or...

But Cerberus is a small organization, even if they weren't nearly destroyed in Retribution they would never be able to gather the people needed to make a Reaper. TIM also isn't a complete moron knowing fully well the risks. (If somebody mentions Grayson again, I'll kick a puppy)

[smudboy]

iakus wrote...
Not favor:

Kahoku
David
Akuze
Pragia
Toombs
Chasca
Listening Post Alpha

Not including the stuff in the books, whichI have not read.

Overall, I'd say it's even money that Cerberus could end up accidentally destroying galactic civilization with the base before the Reapers even arrive

TIM does not actually do any of this.  These are individual cells that decide to do such things.

-Did TIM kill Kahoku?  Kahoku was working with info on the Shadow Broker.  Cerberus=Alliance.  Cerberus stops its enemies.
-David's situation was due to Archer, not TIM.  TIM had no idea what was going on.
-Did TIM cause Akuze and conduct experiments on Toombs?
-Did TIM cause or was made aware of the experiments on Pragia?  Not only lampshaded by Miranda, but TIM had no knowledge of what unethical experimenrts were going on there.
-Chasca: husks were already dead; lampshaded by Miranda
-Listening Post Alpha: Rachni -- lampshaded by Miranda (abandoned once they understood their intelligence)

Now the argument rests that Cerberus, or whatever cell TIM puts in charge of researching the base, will start doing unethical things to...it...or...wait that doesn't make sense.  Nevermind.

[SpiderFan1217]

Mondo47 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I can't picture TIM producing a human reaper at all.

And if the Bioware writers went that route, I'd totally wag my fingers at them.

Nah, it won't be a human Reaper. TIM wants human dominance after all, he's not going to blenderise people to make a war machine... it'll be made out of turians. Or volus maybe. Or...

I was thinking Hanar, easier to grind.

[Roamingmachine]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I'm pretty sure one of the techs salvaged from Sovereign included aspects of EDI's information warfare suite.  Reaper ships are likely extremely not-deadly if they can't function.

Not to mention the metagaming reason:  They wouldn't give us the option of keeping it if it was worthless.

Roamingmachine wrote...

With all that, what would be the point of giving the base to a twit with delusions of grandeour?

He's not delusional.

EWAR suite that wasn't useful even against the collectors.In fact, i seem to remember that it was the Normandy that was usually under EWAR attack.Could it possibly be that the the tech is designed against species using the technological path that the reapears have paved and not against the reapers themselves? As is evident with the derelict, reapers have been killed before.I doubt AIs of that caliber would carry with them anything serious that could be turned against them should a later species find the wreck.Kind like modern militaries won't let you take important documents out in the field.

As for TIMmy, he's convinced beyond all reason that his cause is just no matter what he does or what happens as a result.So far the only thing he has managed is to drive his organization in to the fringes of society, wasted countless billions of credits, harmed the war effort and generally harming any human pr campaign in the galaxy by doing what he does.He IS delusional.

[smudboy]

SpiderFan1217 wrote...
Srsly, a shoelace to starangle someone? That is messed up. And the tech on the base is used to turn peoples into crazed evil galaxy ruling machines. EVIL!!

Yes.  It's just a shoelace.  The same way a gun is just a gun.  There is nothing inherently evil about either, nor inherently good about either.

There's nothing inherently evil about Reapers, or the base.  The Reapers simply conduct that 50k Cycle of Destruction thing.  If they didn't, then who cares?  But they do.  So we have to stop them.  Blowing up the base doesn't help you stop them.

[didymos1120]

Count Viceroy wrote...
Considering what they did in retribution, I'd say they already tried.

Not really.  The intent from the start was mostly to learn what exactly the conversion process does to someone in hopes of finding defenses.  Grayson was supposed to be killed, not controlled and used as a weapon.  I've no doubt TIM wouldn't at least consider finding a way to harness the tech as a weapon, but that wasn't the goal this time.

[DanaScu]

None of my Shepards trust Cerberus. One project turned out a success, so far; Lazarus. If you don't count everyone dying except two agents and Shepard.



Of the projects you know of, none of them exactly work out as intended. And if so many projects go rogue, then TIM is flat out incompetent, or has an unsurpassed record of hiring incompetent people to run his projects. Or possibly hiring people who know TIM doesn't care what they do as long as they give him results, including torture. Teltin and Overlord being two examples; oh my TIM will cut our funding if we don't show progress. Let's kill another dozen kids to see if anything beneficial happens. When I read the update on Pragia/Teltin my first reaction was "Huh? Yes, the facility is destroyed, that bomb looked like it cleared off half the planet." and the second one was "gee, you went back and "retired" any scientist who survived Jack's escape. No survivors no witnesses = "We weren't responsible for that; you have no evidence," Tim wasn't upset that Jack bombed the facility; he was pissed that there was any evidence left behind at all.



This "Murphy's law" effect seems to touch just about everything they touch, actually. I just read the transmission log you get from LotSB, if you sell Legion to Cerberus. I'll never get it in game since I keep Legion, but it is interesting nonetheless.



Their "anything/everything for humanity's advancement no matter how many bodies we're walking over" mentality bothers me. Someday maybe I'll read the books, but from what I've seen in game, I'm not going to trust Cerberus with any tech.

[Iakus]

smudboy wrote...

TIM does not actually do any of this.  These are individual cells that decide to do such things.

-Did TIM kill Kahoku?  Kahoku was working with info on the Shadow Broker.  Cerberus=Alliance.  Cerberus stops its enemies.
-David's situation was due to Archer, not TIM.  TIM had no idea what was going on.
-Did TIM cause Akuze and conduct experiments on Toombs?
-Did TIM cause or was made aware of the experiments on Pragia?  Not only lampshaded by Miranda, but TIM had no knowledge of what unethical experimenrts were going on there.
-Chasca: husks were already dead; lampshaded by Miranda
-Listening Post Alpha: Rachni -- lampshaded by Miranda (abandoned once they understood their intelligence)

Now the argument rests that Cerberus, or whatever cell TIM puts in charge of researching the base, will start doing unethical things to...it...or...wait that doesn't make sense.  Nevermind.

So is TIM a murderous sociopath, or simply incompetent?  Remember, TIM maintains direct oversight over all Cerberus projects.  So many cells "going rogue", if true, does not speak well for his management skills.  

Modifié par iakus, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:52 .

[nelly21]

Guys seriously, nothing in any of the games suggests that Cerberus is trying to conquer the galaxy. They want human ADVANCEMENT. They want us to be the biggest and baddest, that's it. Building a human Reaper would incite war with the rest of the galaxy. You would be stupid to start that war, and TIM is not stupid.



The base would mean that our own technology advances us far beyond the other races. The turians need new ships, they have to get them from us. The Asari commandos need new guns, they have to get them from us. It elevates humanity from that annoying new kid on the block to the most advanced society in the galaxy. That's it.

[upsettingshorts]

Roamingmachine wrote...
harmed the war effort

Huh?  I'd be careful about calling people delusional with that kind of analysis.  As far as Mass Effect 2 is concerned, Cerberus is the "war effort."

nelly21 wrote...
It elevates humanity from that annoying new kid on the block to the most advanced society in the galaxy. That's it.

This one.  He understands. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:38 .

[Dave of Canada]

DanaScu wrote...

None of my Shepards trust Cerberus. One project turned out a success, so far; Lazarus. If you don't count everyone dying except two agents and Shepard.

Because that's the only successful operation you know of. You don't see TIM calling you in to go to facility X because they've successfully created a super weapon against the Geth or something, they call you in to deal with their mistakes. Almost all sidequests in ME1 were sent to deal with the Alliance's screw ups but those apparently don't make the Alliance incompetent.