3478 réponses à ce sujet

[TuringPoint]

I don't think whatever knowledge can be gained from the base would have anything to do with indoctrination. Although studying whatever is there might help in figuring out indoctrination and how it works.



The base was for genetic research. I think it would possibly give us insight on the motives of the Reapers, which could be helpful, but I wouldn't suppose it would have much else. After all, the technology to make Reapers was considered "not that of the Collector's," the collectors just collected data I suppose, for the Reapers to interpret and make use of in their evil scheme.

[Krogan Face]

simple, there wasent a reasonable option. Its either black or white as usuall. Do you trust the EM who is painted as an ruthless A-hole?

Or be a goody goooody and blow it up like a dumb goody goody.

Give the collector base over to the galatic government for study, and spite the EM would have been nice.

In all fairness to goody goody, no one understood the collector base ( self evident, sincce EM wanted to learn about it ) so, the safest thing to do was to blow it up. It could have been sending signals, or may become active starting up some back up plan...or may be there were collectors shielded some place on the ship. Blowing it up on the spot was the surest way to "win" that particular battle with the collectors. All the other dumb goody good stuff about lives lost and "this place is an abomination" were crap.

Modifié par Krogan Face, 17 septembre 2010 - 01:46 .

[NYG1991]

Part of me thinks the collector base will end up being ME's version of the anvil of the void. In ME3 you'll discover a way to make your own army of collector soldiers or your own dreadnought by liquifying living beings.

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

You're right, with the Reapers on the way the last thing we need is better technology.

I'm sure you already know this, but your searing sarcasm is hilarious.

Alocormin wrote...

What is the technology useful for? Building a Reaper. That's what the base was for. There was no intact Reaper; only the remains of a Reaper larvae. That isn't even what TIM said he wanted though.

It should be quite obvious that to build a reaper you need to know how to build the offensive and defensive technologies that go into the reaper. These technologies could be used to upgrade the Normandy and the Alliance fleets.

And let's not forget that the collectors deal in the most advanced technology. That stuff doesn't appear out of thin air, there is probably a great deal of information about various technologies, including the collector ship and its directed energy weapon(s) in that base along with the reaper-related stuff.

NYG1991 wrote...

Part of me thinks the collector base will end up being ME's version of the anvil of the void. In ME3 you'll discover a way to make your own army of collector soldiers or your own dreadnought by liquifying living beings.

No.

The reapers don't liquefy people for the hell of it, it is part of their idea of "salvation" or some other nonsense.

You can apply all the advanced technology to ships and such without turning people to goo.

[TuringPoint]

Pretty sure EDI specifically said the Collector's did not have the technology to actually build the Reapers. It was foreign to them.  So what's to say there's any information stored in that base?  It seems plausible the Reapers simply told their pawns what to do.

But you know what?  It's not a real life decision.  It's a game decision.  Frankly, the only purpose of a choice like that is to make up reasons to destroy it or not destroy it.

But it takes imagination to do that.

Modifié par Alocormin, 17 septembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[AresXX7]

Shandepared wrote...

Alocormin wrote...

Pretty sure EDI specifically said the Collector's did not have the technology to actually build the Reapers.

Honestly, if the Collectors don't have the technology to build a Reaper then how are they building a Reaper?

Um...then what were we fighting at the end? I'm pretty sure it was called a Human-Reaper. 

It just wasn't complete yet, hence the "larva" reference.

Modifié par AriesXX7, 17 septembre 2010 - 09:48 .

[Arijharn]

EDI says that the technology is 'not their own.' They operate it like people operate a car, they know how to drive the car, they may even know how to perform maintenance on it, but they don't know how to make brand new cars.



I'm more inclined to believe that there is like a giant 'on' button that the Collector's press and providing that there are people in their pods, the machine pretty much does thing autonomously.

[General User]

It's like Mordin says: the Collectors are "tools for the Reapers." You could almost think of them as pieces of technology themselves.

[Dean_the_Young]

Arijharn wrote...

EDI says that the technology is 'not their own.' They operate it like people operate a car, they know how to drive the car, they may even know how to perform maintenance on it, but they don't know how to make brand new cars.

I'm more inclined to believe that there is like a giant 'on' button that the Collector's press and providing that there are people in their pods, the machine pretty much does thing autonomously.

More specifically, it's the final proof that the Collects are directly controlled Reaper slaves: the knowledge to build Reapers is far more advanced than even 'Collector' technology (the particle beams, husks research, genetics/collector technology, etc.) could provide on its own.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I hear a lot of people talking about the dangers of confronting/studying reaper technology.

This stuff is gonna be your enemy in a few months/years/days...
Unknown technology, it's coming....
Indoctrinations... they're bringin' it...



Has anyone else even tried to counter this besides Cerberus? Did they have better success?

If not, you can't really blame the failures on them as much as the Reapers just being a very strong foe... even disabled Reaper stuff is giving problems.

Imagine what a real live one will do...

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 17 septembre 2010 - 03:02 .

[Mr. Man]

Why would anyone destroy the base?

This is a good question, I don't understand it myself; why the hell would you blow up useful technology of the very enemy thats about to be on your doorstep?

Because it's an 'abomination' or it will 'empower cerberus'. Seriously, people these are the weakest arguements ever! The Galaxy is at stake, and your whining about the base being an 'abomination?"

[Sajuro]

Mr. Man wrote...

Why would anyone destroy the base?
This is a good question, I don't understand it myself; why the hell would you blow up useful technology of the very enemy thats about to be on your doorstep?
Because it's an 'abomination' or it will 'empower cerberus'. Seriously, people these are the weakest arguements ever! The Galaxy is at stake, and your whining about the base being an 'abomination?"

Yep, I don't won't to give an abominable base over to a power hungry douchebag so sue me I'm in this to do more than just survive and having an empire presided over by TIM isn't in those plans. Besides, if we can't win then we can just leave behind more clues like the beacon and cipher so the next set of races will find out what the reapers are before it's too late. This isn't Humanity's survival to me, this is the Reaper's destruction, destroying their base will not only give them the middle finger but set back their reproductive designs while Humanity is posed to become the next batch of collectors by keeping the base.

[Kavadas]

Arijharn wrote...

They operate it like people operate a car, they know how to drive the car, they may even know how to perform maintenance on it, but they don't know how to make brand new cars.

Your analogy makes no sense.

The Collector base wouldn't be the car, it would be the car factory, right?

And this car factory comes with the wreckage of a once-functioning, though unfinished, car, right?

[Mr. Man]

Sajuro wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...

Why would anyone destroy the base?
This is a good question, I don't understand it myself; why the hell would you blow up useful technology of the very enemy thats about to be on your doorstep?
Because it's an 'abomination' or it will 'empower cerberus'. Seriously, people these are the weakest arguements ever! The Galaxy is at stake, and your whining about the base being an 'abomination?"

Yep, I don't won't to give an abominable base over to a power hungry douchebag so sue me I'm in this to do more than just survive and having an empire presided over by TIM isn't in those plans. Besides, if we can't win then we can just leave behind more clues like the beacon and cipher so the next set of races will find out what the reapers are before it's too late. This isn't Humanity's survival to me, this is the Reaper's destruction, destroying their base will not only give them the middle finger but set back their reproductive designs while Humanity is posed to become the next batch of collectors by keeping the base.

how is using their own tech against them NOT giving the reapers the middle finger?

[Sajuro]

Mr. Man wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Mr. Man wrote...

Why would anyone destroy the base?
This is a good question, I don't understand it myself; why the hell would you blow up useful technology of the very enemy thats about to be on your doorstep?
Because it's an 'abomination' or it will 'empower cerberus'. Seriously, people these are the weakest arguements ever! The Galaxy is at stake, and your whining about the base being an 'abomination?"

Yep, I don't won't to give an abominable base over to a power hungry douchebag so sue me I'm in this to do more than just survive and having an empire presided over by TIM isn't in those plans. Besides, if we can't win then we can just leave behind more clues like the beacon and cipher so the next set of races will find out what the reapers are before it's too late. This isn't Humanity's survival to me, this is the Reaper's destruction, destroying their base will not only give them the middle finger but set back their reproductive designs while Humanity is posed to become the next batch of collectors by keeping the base.

how is using their own tech against them NOT giving the reapers the middle finger?

Because it seems to be inferior to the tech the reapers tote around with them (Larva killed with small arms fire and Normandy one shotting the Collector Ship)
My current plan includes having Cerberus ships charge the Reapers in hopes that their corpses and the wreckage from their ships will clog up the Reaper's guns.

[Arijharn]

Kavadas wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

They operate it like people operate a car, they know how to drive the car, they may even know how to perform maintenance on it, but they don't know how to make brand new cars.

Your analogy makes no sense.

The Collector base wouldn't be the car, it would be the car factory, right?

And this car factory comes with the wreckage of a once-functioning, though unfinished, car, right?

Yep.

[screwoffreg]

You can give TIM a Paragon response after preserving the Base by basically saying in a nice way you will kill him if he uses it for the wrong reasons. I imagine even if you save the Base you will have the chance to get a Paragon ending in ME 3. Also, I just like TIM and his voice actor, which is about the same level as reasoning as spiting him being the reason to blow up the Base.

More than that, I would LOVE to see Bioware actually have a seemingly Paragon choice have disastrous consequences. So far, the Paragon choices have NEVER had side effects that could at all be conflicting. To have the Base ultimately play a major, or at least interesting, positive role in ME 3 would add complexity to the so far "Good vs Bad, Black vs White" world of ME.

All the concerns about Cerberus and their amazing influence seem unfounded anyway.  Ultimately, Cerberus will need to rely on other forces to fully utilize the Collector Base as they are made up of only 150 people.  More than that, if the Council really was concerned they could just jump through the Omega 4 Relay (as Cerberus ships are shown doing if Shepard dies) and blow it to pieces.  

At the end of the day, IF TIM goes mad with power and we are assuming we are metagaming, he can be killed.  If we are talking about gaming reality, I think that Bioware wouldn't pidgeonhole a player into a horrible ending just because you saved the Base.  Bear in mind that even by saving the Council in ME 1, a Paragon choice, the Renegade results of human dominance still took place (humans in C-Sec, the Alliance fleet being extremely powerful, etc).  The story will turn out how Bioware wants it to whether or not the Base exists.  You won't lose ME 3 if you blew the base up and you won't all of a sudden turn the Galaxy into Reapers because you kept it.  
Anyway, like TIM, I hedge my bets.  I have a save right before the Collector base for all of my characters 

Modifié par screwoffreg, 18 septembre 2010 - 10:31 .

[Arijharn]

Heh, despite my reasoning that it's basically stupid to destroy it, all my characters have saves for both keeping and scuttling it. I just feel really bad if I do destroy it is all.

[Xilizhra]

More than that, I would LOVE to see Bioware actually have a seemingly Paragon choice have disastrous consequences. So far, the Paragon choices have NEVER had side effects that could at all be conflicting.

Well, letting Elnora and/or Balak live is iffy (I still let Elnora live, and don't do anything with Balak because I don't have the DLC).

Bear in mind that even by saving the Council in ME 1, a Paragon choice, the Renegade results of human dominance still took place (humans in C-Sec, the Alliance fleet being extremely powerful, etc).

Actually, in the Renegade path, you also get antihuman race riots, the enmity of a few other people on the Citadel, etc.

[Arijharn]

Xilizhra wrote...

Bear in mind that even by saving the Council in ME 1, a Paragon choice, the Renegade results of human dominance still took place (humans in C-Sec, the Alliance fleet being extremely powerful, etc).

Actually, in the Renegade path, you also get antihuman race riots, the enmity of a few other people on the Citadel, etc.

There's four variations of that choice; you can save the council as a renegade, you can kill the council as a renegade, you can save the council as a paragon and you can kill the council as a paragon.

[Xilizhra]

Renegade path of killing the Council, I should say.

[Major Truth]

I've always tended to destroy the base more out of fear of it being recaptured then fear of what TIM will do with it. In order to keep the base, it would have to be defended consistently and not knowing what the technology contained in it can do would be quite dangerous if it could be accessed remotely

If the base is recaptured we're back to square one. Destroying it is the safe option

screwoffreg wrote...

More than that, I would LOVE to see Bioware actually have a seemingly Paragon choice have disastrous consequences. So far, the Paragon choices have NEVER had side effects that could at all be conflicting. To have the Base ultimately play a major, or at least interesting, positive role in ME 3 would add complexity to the so far "Good vs Bad, Black vs White" world of ME.

Agree completly. Always doing the right things does not always produce the best outcome. History is paved with disasters born out of good intentions. Sometimes you can do the right thing for the wrong reasons and vice versa

[Xilizhra]

I look at it as a difference in preferred playstyles. If you want a dark universe where the ends always justify the means, play Renegade. If you want high heroism where you'll end up saving everyone's day against great odds, play a Paragon.

[UNAVAILABLE]

Mr. Man wrote...

Why would anyone destroy the base?
This is a good question, I don't understand it myself; why the hell would you blow up useful technology of the very enemy thats about to be on your doorstep?
Because it's an 'abomination' or it will 'empower cerberus'. Seriously, people these are the weakest arguements ever! The Galaxy is at stake, and your whining about the base being an 'abomination?"

1. It's in uncharted space. Unknown enemies, including other collectors could capture it.

2. "Useful" technology is a big assumption. Other species have dedicated centuries of research into the mass relays and citadel and come up with little. Dedicating research resources on it for an imminent battle is a waste.

3. As it is a Reaper factory, you can assume that Reaper tech is on board (i.e. indoctrination). Not to mention that Harbinger directly controlled collectors within this base. Who can say what other systems can be remotely controlled by the Reapers?

4. How do you study a high tech piece of machinery when pushing the wrong button can drop the whole thing into a black hole? Hazard pay, anyone?


For useable technology advances, I think it would be best to study the ships in the debris field around the Collector base.

Modifié par UNAVAILABLE, 18 septembre 2010 - 05:28 .