3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Inverness Moon]

It would be nice if a significant paragon decision had negative consequences down the road.



This is my prediction for a way that the collector base could affect the ending:



If you destroy the base, then in the fight with the reapers, about 80% to 90% of galactic civilization is wiped out (depending on your relations with the rachni, krogan, and geth), homeworlds are decimated, etc. But after the war is over, the various races decide to work together to rebuild and become closer than they were before, etc. If the Council is all-human, they would continue as the dominant force in what is left of the galaxy. If you saved the original Council, seats could be extended to all races that contributed to the defeat of the reapers: geth, rachni, krogan, quarians, etc.



If you save the base, through TIM's efforts, Cerberus's and the Alliance's capabilities leap forward significantly, resulting in somewhere between 10% to 30% losses with humans being one of the races with the fewest losses. If the Council is all-human, their power is firmly cemented as the dominant force in the galaxy (not including the geth) for hundreds of years. Whether that is a good or bad thing will depend on Shepard's influence. If you saved the original Council, they're forced to acknowledge that Shepard was right all along and are forced to resign in the face of public opinion and an immense lack of confidence, providing another opportunity for humans to take over the Council or continue extending the olive branch. Though in this case, it wouldn't be all-human, but rather lead by a human, meaning the human voice/vote carries two to three times the weight as that from another race, due to the fact that they saved the galaxy. Race relations would depend on what Shepard has done in this matter.

[Xilizhra]

I doubt that the casualties would diverge that far, personally. It's a reaction that's extremely disproportionately punishing Paragons, compared to the trivial "punishments" Renegades have gotten.

[AlexMBrennan]

I don't think 80% casualties are realistic, mostly because I don't think that a drawn-out open war with the reapers would be suitable for an RPG/shooter.



As for the original question, I tend to destroy the collector base because I doubt that the Reapers are that short-sighted to leave useful technology lying around. The blueprints found could be for a second-rate Reaper - any weaknesses in the design will be fixed in the Reapers that are subsequently encountered. At best that's a waste of resources, and at worst the weapon to exploit the flaws will be entirely ineffective against the new Reapers.

[stewie1974]

A legitimate question.

Destroy it, Or Hand It over to Cerberus.... why are those your only options?

For the course of TWO games you have been trying to tell the council about the reaper threat ...((never mind the asarii counciler could have melded with your mind for thought transfer... check the wiki.. and confirmed this))....

You have ... A human reaper embro corpse somewhere in the depths of the base...((it didn't explode it just fell down the shaft apparently dead)).... your option is ...blow its the hellz up, or hand it over to cerburus..... waaaaaaait...shouldn't I show my findings to the GALACTIC council???? Allience...who ever you want to tour it?

two options... forced ...

could be total paragon... "Here is the evidence I've sought all along"....
Paragon.....             "Its too much of a threat to stand"
renegade....             "Cerburus could use this base to save humans."
Total Renegade     Plant flag.."This base is mine... I'm charging admission fees.."

Modifié par stewie1974, 18 septembre 2010 - 06:42 .

[lovgreno]

Alocormin wrote...

Pretty sure EDI specifically said the Collector's did not have the technology to actually build the Reapers. It was foreign to them.  So what's to say there's any information stored in that base?  It seems plausible the Reapers simply told their pawns what to do.

But you know what?  It's not a real life decision.  It's a game decision.  Frankly, the only purpose of a choice like that is to make up reasons to destroy it or not destroy it.

But it takes imagination to do that.

Yes exactly, anyone with some imagination and who are not afraid to be wrong (even though we don't know what option was wrong or rigth untill ME3 ends and I would bet both options will have both bad and good consequences) can easily find arguments both for destroying it and keeping it. All it takes is trying to think outside your own box and dare think the thought that perhaps you are wrong and someone with opposing opinions are right.

[Arijharn]

Of course because it's a game the choice is moot, but usually when this topic comes up it comes up with philosophical connotations, specifically it was like this earlier in this very thread.



Arguing that you should of had more choices is pointless because you only had two at that situation in time, you are forced to make a split second decision on the basis of what was available to that time.



Whether TIM and Cerberus are monstrous or not is the litmus test of what is considered an 'acceptable risk' versus galactic level genocide.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I see not studying reaper tech as following the path and being in the mindset the Reapers intend you to be on. The same mindset they desire people to be on and consequently get overwhelmed by. Everything the Alliance currently uses is based on the technology they found.



The baby Reaper and Sovereign were destroyable without their shields active. However, nothing... NOTHING got through Sovereigns shields and NOTHING withstood a shot from their legged cannons.



So far NOTHING has been able to counter indoctrination.



Until Cerberus intervention, NOTHING has been able to even counter the Reaper swarms.





I also could see it as a way for Cerberus to try and become a ruler after it's all over... but I also see him as easier to stop than the Reapers who have a perfect track record of wiping out the galaxy more times than even they would number.

[Dave of Canada]

Something I'd like to see is entire colonies being indoctrinated and Shepard has to fight through them, killing every single of the people who's been forced into serving the Reapers. Those who kept the base though have Seeker Swarms to shut down the colony, allowing you to run through it and fight only those who've been converted into husks. Once you liberate the colony from the Reapers, Cerberus shops arrive and begin to "cure" the frozen colony from indoctrination. Then later on when the Reapers begin to attack say... Palaven, you are more than capable of shutting down their weaponry / shields reducing the casualities (but not by a lot, just enough to make a difference).


Although to counterbalance this, we should have some implications for an epilogue or something that explains what happened after the Reapers were stopped. Like how Cerberus used it's technology to wipe out anti-human organizations / groups and such, causing a lot more distrust for humans (that were quickly silenced by Cerberus). Before people come in and scold me, there's anti-human groups regardless of being Paragon or Renegade in ME1.

[Sajuro]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Something I'd like to see is entire colonies being indoctrinated and Shepard has to fight through them, killing every single of the people who's been forced into serving the Reapers. Those who kept the base though have Seeker Swarms to shut down the colony, allowing you to run through it and fight only those who've been converted into husks. Once you liberate the colony from the Reapers, Cerberus shops arrive and begin to "cure" the frozen colony from indoctrination. Then later on when the Reapers begin to attack say... Palaven, you are more than capable of shutting down their weaponry / shields reducing the casualities (but not by a lot, just enough to make a difference).

Nerve gas grenades for the win.

[Sajuro]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...



Until Cerberus intervention, NOTHING has been able to even counter the Reaper swarms.

More like until Mordin intervention, how did Cerberus even get one of the seekers? Did they ask the collectors nicely? I mean it wouldn't be probably to find Seekers after the fact since that would blow the whole guise of colonies mysteriously vanishing.

[Arijharn]

Sajuro wrote...
More like until Mordin intervention, how did Cerberus even get one of the seekers? Did they ask the collectors nicely? I mean it wouldn't be probably to find Seekers after the fact since that would blow the whole guise of colonies mysteriously vanishing.

And who recommended Mordin and essentially pointed you in the direction to do so? Cerberus! I did think it was kinda sudden that we had a seeker in the lab though without any idea of where we got it. Maybe some other Cerberus team got lucky and they had it sent to the Normandy when it was at some miscellaneous world? (And where Miranda was out looking for some action?)

[Esternogligen]

You all remember topics like this in ME1?

Oh... if you kill the council ME2 is gonna go in this direction, but if you save them it'll all play out like this...

BS

Anderson/Udina have absolutely no pull or say at all in Council decisions, and the new council makes the same exact final choice the old one would come to: banishing you to the Terminus because Bioware forces you to side with the organization that stabbed the Sole Survivor Shep in the back.

This will be no different.
At the beginning of ME3, the summary will read, "The Collector Base was lost due to Shepard destroying it / [lame Bioware-fabricated excuse]", and the game will take its singlular linear course defiant to all your previous decisions in ME1 and ME2.

Bite me, Bioware.

Modifié par Esternogligen, 19 septembre 2010 - 08:45 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Not sure if Bioware really forces you to side with Cerberus. After all, no one wants to listen to Shepard - if he refused to work with TIM to go back to the Alliance/Council, he'd probably assigned to some routine job. A decade later, the Human Reaper kills everything.

In general, games don't give the player the option to commit suicide - you can't choose to defend the bomb on Virmire in order to buy your squadmates and the salerians time to escape, you can't romance Morinth prior to the suicide mission, you can't join Saren, etc. Do you really want dozens more dialogue options that result in "You doomed the galaxy. Please reload an earlier save" (Elder Scrolls III - style)?

[Dean_the_Young]

A few more, yeah.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Sajuro wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...



Until Cerberus intervention, NOTHING has been able to even counter the Reaper swarms.

More like until Mordin intervention, how did Cerberus even get one of the seekers? Did they ask the collectors nicely? I mean it wouldn't be probably to find Seekers after the fact since that would blow the whole guise of colonies mysteriously vanishing.

Think they likely captured one from one of the previously abducted colonies.  The Collectors aren't "that" organized to gather every seeker they sent out to fight with.

Everything you did against the Collectors was under the Cerberus banner.  It's  a good look into just how much control the Illusive Man has over the actions of the teams.  You could've wiped out the geth or launched a missle into a populated city if you so chose and that wouldn't be marked against you... it'd be marked against Cerberus.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 20 septembre 2010 - 03:56 .

[RDSFirebane]

I have a question I saw sometime ago some one posted that following reaper tech is what they want us to do ect ect. That is a good point I mean come on this base didn't seem to have a anti capture explosion or fail safe or anything that we really get to see right? and whos to say that if we keep the base it wont be the first thing hit and there's no telling what bio ware will put there like all the sudden Tim convenes the council and the alliance that they can have access to the base as well if they play nice with him and then all the sudden the reapers take out this large mixed fleet of our war ships dealing a crippling blow to us in a matter of moments but hey I could be wrong just thought I'd put it out there for thought.

[chris025657]

RDSFirebane wrote...

I have a question I saw sometime ago some one posted that following reaper tech is what they want us to do ect ect. That is a good point I mean come on this base didn't seem to have a anti capture explosion or fail safe or anything that we really get to see right? and whos to say that if we keep the base it wont be the first thing hit and there's no telling what bio ware will put there like all the sudden Tim convenes the council and the alliance that they can have access to the base as well if they play nice with him and then all the sudden the reapers take out this large mixed fleet of our war ships dealing a crippling blow to us in a matter of moments but hey I could be wrong just thought I'd put it out there for thought.

The main defense of the Collector base was its location. Everyone who had passed through the Omega 4 relay died. Furthermore, the collectors pulled no punches in trying to stop Shepard. The Oculus attacks, the collector ship, and the collectors on board the base made every attempt to stop you. They never expected anyone to get that far.

The Reapers aren't omniscient. It's already been shown that an understanding of their technology has foiled their plans in the past. Prothean understanding of their relays and their signals has already saved the galaxy for example.

[Whatever42]

My first playthough, I saved the base. However, just as in ME1, where I can't seem to let the council die, now I can't bring myself to destroy the base. It just seems too foolish, especially when humanity is the direct target of the Reapers and the other races seem so stupidly callous. Even my more paragon runs, with evil TIM cackling in my face, I have a lot of trouble bringing myself to blowing it.

[chris025657]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

My first playthough, I saved the base. However, just as in ME1, where I can't seem to let the council die, now I can't bring myself to destroy the base. It just seems too foolish, especially when humanity is the direct target of the Reapers and the other races seem so stupidly callous. Even my more paragon runs, with evil TIM cackling in my face, I have a lot of trouble bringing myself to blowing it.

Me too.

Even with my mostly paragon canon Shepard, I almost feel it's immoral to destroy the base in the face of total genocide at the hands of the Reapers given how many lives could possibly be saved with a greater understanding of their technology. 

[Crespire]

Sajuro wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Something I'd like to see is entire colonies being indoctrinated and Shepard has to fight through them, killing every single of the people who's been forced into serving the Reapers. Those who kept the base though have Seeker Swarms to shut down the colony, allowing you to run through it and fight only those who've been converted into husks. Once you liberate the colony from the Reapers, Cerberus shops arrive and begin to "cure" the frozen colony from indoctrination. Then later on when the Reapers begin to attack say... Palaven, you are more than capable of shutting down their weaponry / shields reducing the casualities (but not by a lot, just enough to make a difference).

Nerve gas grenades for the win.

That was Thorian spores, bro.

Modifié par Crespire, 21 septembre 2010 - 12:34 .

[Xilizhra]

chris025657 wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

My first playthough, I saved the base. However, just as in ME1, where I can't seem to let the council die, now I can't bring myself to destroy the base. It just seems too foolish, especially when humanity is the direct target of the Reapers and the other races seem so stupidly callous. Even my more paragon runs, with evil TIM cackling in my face, I have a lot of trouble bringing myself to blowing it.

Me too.

Even with my mostly paragon canon Shepard, I almost feel it's immoral to destroy the base in the face of total genocide at the hands of the Reapers given how many lives could possibly be saved with a greater understanding of their technology. 

Easy enough. Remind yourself of the many, many horrible risks it carries.

[SirFelix]

That would be cool if a paragon action had negative effects down the road!



Also no matter what happens I got it covered with either my male shep or female shep;)

[Xilizhra]

It weakens Cerberus, or at least removes a source of power for them, thus promoting galactic unity. I'd say it's a decent enough gain; destroying Cerberus altogether would be better, but this is easier without them having the base.