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Why do people destroy the Collector base?


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#3226
mosor

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UNAVAILABLE wrote...



The assumption is based on the basic principle that it is far better to overestimate your opponent than to underestimate them. And the evidence does not show they beat "everyone else" by suprise. It shows they beat the Protheans by suprise. Other than that, we know little more than at one point in time, someone had a cannon that was powerful enough to kill at least one Reaper.


How can you overestimate an opponent you know next to nothing about? If anything, you're underestimating them by thinking you can win without saving the base and studying their capabilities. It's a video game, and nothing disasterous will happen regardless of what you do. However, in real life, destroying the base makes little military sense.

So which assumption should I make, that the Reapers are a bunch of wimps that can only win by suprise, or that they're an incredibly powerful armada that could easily win even in a fair fight? I think I'll be better prepared if I assume the latter.


As I said above. If you working on the assumption that they're increadibly powerful, wouldn't you want to know exactly what capabilities they have other than indoctrination? Other possible weapons they might use against us? Your argument is basically, we should fear them to the point of running away from them, rather than bravely facing the threat and studying them while there is still time. Mass indoctrinations will happen when they arrive. Better to study that and other weapons now so we can counter act it.

I also question how valuable any study could be. According to Vigil it took the top Prothean scientists (who were more advanced than Cerberus) "decades of feverish study" to figure out how to alter the signal from the Citadel to the keepers. So that's how long it takes to study a single comm signal, something tells me that the Reapers are somewhat of a more imminent threat.


As someone else pointed out, the mars data leapfroged our knowledge by hundreds of years in a short time. Bersides, they weren't just studying a single signal. They were building a mini mass relay. They also had to work in secret with limited resources.

Considering that in my view the base is a trap, yes, it would be better to have them working on other things elsewhere.


Studying what? The cell life of a bacteria?  A scientist can get more data in a couple weeks at the base than they could in several lifetimes. Even if they do get indoctrinated, the data they get even from being there a limited time is well worth the price.


Not true. There is an assumption that studying the base (forgetting the years of study aspect) might yield useful technology, but there is no guarantee. Even if you gain understanding of some technology, it could be decades beyond that before anyone figures out how to use it in a weapon, strengthen shields, etc.


Of course there is no guarantee. That doesn't mean we should put our head in the sand and cower like babies and have little or no chance in getting any useful data.


This is the function that Sovereign fulfilled, or was supposed to. While I don't agree that the Reapers depend on suprise for their victories, they certainly like to keep it on their side. Automatically kicking on indoctrination aboard the Citadel is bound to get noticed, and could potentially alert the galaxy of an imminent attack. Having a dormant Reaper hidden in the galaxy allows that Reaper to best decide how to proceed should the relay fail.


Sovereign could have sent a signal to automatically kick in indoctrination in case the  signal to open the relay didn't work. The citadel proves not all reaper tech indoctrinates.

The fact is we're not the ones who underestimate the reapers. It's they that underestimate us. With the base in hand, that may be their fatal mistake. We may suffer some losses studying the base, we may not. However, we will learn more about our enemy than a paragon who choses to destroy it.

Modifié par mosor, 21 septembre 2010 - 10:50 .


#3227
0mar

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I really hope nuking the base comes back to haunt paragon players in ME3. It's simply too valuable of a resource to waste. I don't care if it costs 10,000 lives, the weight of trillions of lives depends on winning.

#3228
Barquiel

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PWENER wrote...

Vladiostroke wrote...

People destroy the base because ''It's the right thing to do!''.


Is that the kind of mentality that will get a galaxy saved?


Yes

Because paragon Shepard's will be able to save the galaxy in ME3
and...
renegade Shepard's will be able to save the galaxy in ME3, too. ^_^

#3229
mosor

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Barquiel wrote...

PWENER wrote...

Vladiostroke wrote...

People destroy the base because ''It's the right thing to do!''.


Is that the kind of mentality that will get a galaxy saved?


Yes

Because paragon Shepard's will be able to save the galaxy in ME3
and...
renegade Shepard's will be able to save the galaxy in ME3, too. ^_^


Of course, but renegade shep will do it more believably.:D

#3230
Iakus

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0mar wrote...

I really hope nuking the base comes back to haunt paragon players in ME3. It's simply too valuable of a resource to waste. I don't care if it costs 10,000 lives, the weight of trillions of lives depends on winning.


Strangely enough, so do I.  I want to have to defend my actions and wonder if I made the right call.  I want benefits and drawbacks for both choices. 

And I'm a paragon player who blew the place up with a smile on my face. (well, more like a sneer) 

#3231
Iakus

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mosor wrote...

Of course, but renegade shep will do it more believably.:D


Bellievable went out the window with the Lazarus Project

But Paragons will save the galaxy with style Posted Image

#3232
Arijharn

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Asheer_Khan wrote...

I'm sure this isn't the first time the relay failed to open in millions of years.


Actually it is since Keepers were genetically engineered by Reapers to react at thier "knock" to Citadel relay.
Main reason why Sovieregin blown up his cover and openly attack Citadel was fact that (even Vigil says this) for THE FIRST time Keepers ignored signal to open Relay trapping Harbinger's fleet outside Milky Way...


Does that mean that you agree that the Collector Base could be some overly complicated trap then?

#3233
Guest_Shandepared_*

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iakus wrote...

But Paragons will save the galaxy with style Posted Image


If you consider cliche and boring to be 'style' then yeah.

#3234
Guest_ShadowJ20_*

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0mar wrote...

I really hope nuking the base comes back to haunt paragon players in ME3. It's simply too valuable of a resource to waste. I don't care if it costs 10,000 lives, the weight of trillions of lives depends on winning.


It's not going to haunt paragon players obviously.  TIM controls the base and he decides to do whatever he wants. It's more likely that it will haunt renegade players because they don't control the base.  TIM does.  Paragon players have a ton of help. Rachni,Geth etc.

#3235
Guest_ShadowJ20_*

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iakus wrote...
If you consider cliche and boring to be 'style' then yeah.


It's not too bad.  We get to punch Zaeed right in his face and pistol whip that Overlord Scientist.

#3236
stewie1974

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Cuz I like big explosions made of fire... rather than radiation bursts.

My shepard is micheal bay shepard.

Modifié par stewie1974, 22 septembre 2010 - 02:34 .


#3237
Inverness Moon

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Shandepared wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't trust his mental stability, what with "Cerberus is humanity!" and all. He's been very rational and calm up until now, but so was Palpatine on his way up... when he made it to the top, he became a cackling lunatic obsessed with overbuilt superweapons.


I don't think he trusts yours and with good reason.

Shepard blew up the base and all he had to say was this, "I won't let fear compromise who I am." and "I won't sacrifice the soul of our species do it."

What hell is that even supposed to mean? It sure as hell isn't some kind of plan.

As usual, Shand pins the tail on the donkey, or hits the nail on the head, something like that.

Ever since I started playing Mass Effect and began to consider the differences between paragon and renegade course of actions and the reasoning behind each, I've come to think that paragon choices are quite often, as in the case of the collector base, idealistic nonsense.

I'll also add that my opinion of TIM has gone up after reading Retribution. I'm highly interested in the upcoming comic(s) about his background.

#3238
Therion942

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'Cause I feel like givin' the Reapers a fair fight.

#3239
PWENER

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ShadowJ20 wrote...

iakus wrote...
If you consider cliche and boring to be 'style' then yeah.


It's not too bad.  We get to punch Zaeed right in his face and pistol whip that Overlord Scientist.


Those two are paragon actions? Posted Image

#3240
PWENER

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Therion942 wrote...

'Cause I feel like givin' the Reapers a fair fight.


That has to be a line for Shepard if asked why he destroyed the base.

#3241
AntiChri5

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Why do people destroy the Collector base?




It smelled funny.

#3242
casedawgz

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stewie1974 wrote...

Cuz I like big explosions made of fire... rather than radiation bursts.

My shepard is micheal bay shepard.


That's why I did it! It had been too much work to get there to leave without blowing something up.

#3243
PWENER

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casedawgz wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...

Cuz I like big explosions made of fire... rather than radiation bursts.

My shepard is micheal bay shepard.


That's why I did it! It had been too much work to get there to leave without blowing something up.


Are people even trying to come up with actual reasons anymore? I guess after the 200th panel (or something) people start getting lazy.

#3244
casedawgz

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No, that was seriously why I did it. I was pretty much full renegade on my first playthrough, but the whole way through the base I'd had my heart set on blowing it up and was too stubborn to alter my original plan, even if it was the paragon choice.

#3245
PWENER

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casedawgz wrote...

No, that was seriously why I did it. I was pretty much full renegade on my first playthrough, but the whole way through the base I'd had my heart set on blowing it up and was too stubborn to alter my original plan, even if it was the paragon choice.


I didn't know we were actually going to blow it up after I got to the end. I honestly thought we were just gonna go in, kill and get out.

#3246
Sajuro

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iakus wrote...

0mar wrote...

I really hope nuking the base comes back to haunt paragon players in ME3. It's simply too valuable of a resource to waste. I don't care if it costs 10,000 lives, the weight of trillions of lives depends on winning.


Strangely enough, so do I.  I want to have to defend my actions and wonder if I made the right call.  I want benefits and drawbacks for both choices. 

And I'm a paragon player who blew the place up with a smile on my face. (well, more like a sneer) 

The bigger the consequence, the better the 'big damn hero' moment at the end will be.
Shepard and his 12 squad mates versus the Reaper fleet, hardly seems fair

#3247
PWENER

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Sajuro wrote...

iakus wrote...

0mar wrote...

I really hope nuking the base comes back to haunt paragon players in ME3. It's simply too valuable of a resource to waste. I don't care if it costs 10,000 lives, the weight of trillions of lives depends on winning.


Strangely enough, so do I.  I want to have to defend my actions and wonder if I made the right call.  I want benefits and drawbacks for both choices. 

And I'm a paragon player who blew the place up with a smile on my face. (well, more like a sneer) 

The bigger the consequence, the better the 'big damn hero' moment at the end will be.
Shepard and his 12 squad mates versus the Reaper fleet, hardly seems fair


For who? and it's "BIG GODDAMMED HEROES" to you.

#3248
Sajuro

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PWENER wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

iakus wrote...

0mar wrote...

I really hope nuking the base comes back to haunt paragon players in ME3. It's simply too valuable of a resource to waste. I don't care if it costs 10,000 lives, the weight of trillions of lives depends on winning.


Strangely enough, so do I.  I want to have to defend my actions and wonder if I made the right call.  I want benefits and drawbacks for both choices. 

And I'm a paragon player who blew the place up with a smile on my face. (well, more like a sneer) 

The bigger the consequence, the better the 'big damn hero' moment at the end will be.
Shepard and his 12 squad mates versus the Reaper fleet, hardly seems fair


For who? and it's "BIG GODDAMMED HEROES" to you.

Who do you think? We have the moogle dance on our side.

#3249
betd2

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I blow it up for three reasons

1. For that admiral in ME1 and his men that Cerberus fed to a thresher maw

2. for sending me to the collector ship without telling me it was a trap (couldn't tell me, I call BS)

3. If the dead reaper and the IFF taught us anything it's that Reaper/Collector tech will inevitably bite you in the butt.

#3250
Inverness Moon

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betd2 wrote...

I blow it up for three reasons
1. For that admiral in ME1 and his men that Cerberus fed to a thresher maw
2. for sending me to the collector ship without telling me it was a trap (couldn't tell me, I call BS)
3. If the dead reaper and the IFF taught us anything it's that Reaper/Collector tech will inevitably bite you in the butt.

1. Perhaps you should be more concerned about your future that the reapers are about to destroy, rather than the past. That particular subject is quite irrelevant in the big picture.
2. It's quite easy to understand. Had you known it was a trap, you could have consciously or subconsciously tipped the collectors off in any number of ways, as TIM explained. Naturally, TIM was confident enough in Shepard's abilities not to tell him that it was a trap, and Shepard did not disappoint. You don't have to like being on the receiving end of TIM's deception, but I wouldn't say it wasn't necessary.
3. Let's not forget that both EDI and the Thanix cannons are pieces of reaper technology on board the Normandy. I believe EDI has proven herself to be an invaluable member of the crew. However, if you're so confident that reaper tech will inevitably bit you in the butt, go ahead and destroy her. And don't forget to destroy the collector particle beam gun while you're at it, can't have that biting you in the butt either.

Anyhow, you're making inaccurate generalizations about reaper/collector technology. The mass relays are invaluable marvels of engineering and the reason why galactic civilization exists as it does. The only problem with them is that they can be controlled from the Citadel, or perhaps directly by the reapers. If that control could be severed, would you destroy them anyway since they're reaper technology?