3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Silver]

I have not read the thread in entirety, but I destroy the Collector Base every time because Cerberus has proven itself not able to properly handle alien technology, or aliens in general (Rachni  & Thorian Creepers anyone ?).
TIM is also a backstabbin' bastard, leading you into situations where he knows perfectly that they will lead into an ambush.
People with such a rap sheet are not to be trusted with technology that, by far, surpasses anyone elses technology out there.

[Cheese Elemental]

People, let's think outside of the game for a moment. BioWare isn't going to totally screw over everyone who went full Paragon. The negative response would be overwhelming. Both Paragons and Renegades will get an ending that's good (in their eyes), because BioWare have a good sense of fairness.

I mean, look at the morally grey choices in Dragon Age, like preserving the Anvil of the Void. You're giving a piece of magical technology (which is very similar to the Collector base, actually) to a madwoman so she can bolster your army with golems. That results in her locking herself away in a fortress, meaning nobody else gets any benefit after the final battle is won. You made the fight easier, but it had terrible consequences. Same with siding with the werewolves.

[DarthFrylock007]

Okay, I didn't read through every single page because the basic argument for destroying the base is "TIM is a bad bad man and the base is made of pure concentrated evil." Even playing as a paragon, I have a hard time with that logic. The potential gains are enormous, and I don't believe you can just blow the thing up simply because TIM's evil.

That said, even playing as a renegade I have a hard time justifying NOT blowing up the base in the end for one simple reason - how can I be certain the radiation pulse will even work? TIM studied the Collector base schematics for all of what, 5 seconds? And in that time he's come up with a plan that is 100% certain to work? Really??? Does no one else find this to be just a little sketchy?

Forget the moral judgments. I don't care about whether TIM can be trusted, or if the base is pure evil. I'm blowing that base to hell because I can't take the chance that Timmy's plan won't work.

The objective is to destroy the base. That's what the team busted their collective a**es trying to accomplish. Sure, being able to keep the base and its technology sounds great, but not at the cost of getting the job done.

Modifié par DarthFrylock007, 07 juin 2010 - 01:43 .

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote..
Humanity is a strategic asset to them, nothing more, nothing less.

This is why a paragon is just as cut off as a renegade. The Council thinks they're off their rocker, the Council has no interest in looking into Shepard's claims and they think Shepard is probably a traitor.
 

Humanity is a potentialy asset or danger to the Council. They are still newcomers that have to prove being a friend or foe.
They still let you keep the title of a spectre (despite working with a criminal pro human secret organisation) wich still is a sign that you are valuable to the council and that they are willing to listen to what you say if you provide enough evidence.
Turning his back on Cerberus (and proving it in action) would probably help proving that Shepard values the Council and the galaxy before Cerberus. Of course a Shepard that votes on Terra Firma would never consider such a thing. And thus it once again comes down to that different Shepards chooses different paths.

[Yakko77]

Collider wrote...

The Thanix Cannon was based upon Reaper technology. That's it.

Wait, isn't all Mass Effect tech Reaper based? 

That's what I  got when talking to Vigil on Ilos.

[NitrAce]

Ethics. After watching the colonist get juiced it just doesn't seem right.

[Solid_Shepard12345]

Yakko77 wrote...

Collider wrote...

The Thanix Cannon was based upon Reaper technology. That's it.

Wait, isn't all Mass Effect tech Reaper based? 

That's what I  got when talking to Vigil on Ilos.

That is true. The difference though is that the Reapers purposely left some technology behind so the Reapers would have an advantage in that they would understand how they (the galaxy's weapons) work and therefore tehy understand their disadvantages and weaknesses. The difference with the Thanix Cannon (I haven't played ME2 fully in two or so months so correct me if I'm wrong but that is the one based on Sovereign's laser, isn't it?) is that the Reapers did not intend to leave that because they clearly saw it (the technology behind it) as too dangerous/too much of a risk incase it was greatly improved.

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

They still let you keep the title of a spectre (despite working with a criminal pro human secret organisation) wich still is a sign that you are valuable to the council and that they are willing to listen to what you say if you provide enough evidence.

Of-course you are valuable; you're a public hero and the Council doesn't have any evidence yet that you've actually done anything against them.

Wich should give the writers enough of a plot to let a paragon shep go back to the council.

[Spartas Husky]

back to the council so we can "meet" and aftera a few minutes, we exit, quickly lave the citadel, only for news later to find out the council "meeting" was really an assasination with all council members dead....sigh good dream....good dream.

[lovgreno]

And then we become the new boss? Nah, someone got to rule and they do a good enough job. Democracy is a lousy way of ruling but the alternatives are worse. I'll let the Council keep doing what they do best: stopping the galaxy from falling into chaos while I go reaperhunting.

[Spartas Husky]

new boss? nah, I just love complete disaray...to break the fragile "reality" of somebody is one of my greatest joys....that and the mere joy of telling somebody "told you so"...



But nah is not to take over em....just so everything goes nuts.

[lovgreno]

Though the situarion of everything going nuts have its appeal the time for anarchy isnt now considering the impending doom of reapers. And besides chaos is bad for buisness.

[TheSixthghoul]

You'll have to use the same logic with keeping the Rachni alive, without meta-gaming keeping the Rachni alive seems silly. It's seems most of your crew would agree with you about killing the Rachni, if one didn't have to be paragon.

[Spartas Husky]

I mean after....like a triumphant return, sheperd is haileda s a hero....I ask for a "meeting" to discuss... umm I duno something in 3 months, and they dont come out alive of the meeting.



ON the other hand....chaos is bad for biss....but hell If I was shepperd I prolly built a nice little retirement home somewhere isolated and stockpile tons of goodies. Sit back relax and watch politicians go nuts.

[lovgreno]

I think Shepard deserves Virmire or Donovan Hochs little getaway to have a little paradise with the alien gf/bf. But remember that a finacial chaos might mean that the sequel of "Blasto- The Jellyfish stings" might never be filmed! And we REALY don't want that now do we?

[Spartas Husky]

.................yeah we dont really want....



Honestly, I dont see me paying 8 creds to watch hanar blast each other....just isn't worth it lol



either cap turian councilor or watch blasto 2......yeah I gow ith capping the councilor lol

[Lulia]

I destroyed the base simply because i distrust Cerberus and they want it.



Through the whole game i'm wondering what the guys angle is - why is he so interested in Shepard?



I don't believe it is for the benefit of humanity, where was he in the first game? And even if it was, i like the Alliance.



So, in short, i do it because Cerberus wants it.



If there was an option to keep the base for myself and maybe hand it over to Alliance, then i would probably have kept it.

[lovgreno]

Since I prefer if the turian councilor have that job instead of most other politicians (and I certanly don't want it) I can spare him. Airquoting him back and saying "ah yes reapers" when they come will be sufficent humiliation I think. But let's not derail things anymore.

[Thesuperdevil]

It's a choice between destroying or recovering a potential reservoir of information. Whether it proves to be useful or not is relative; it is the opportunity that matters. If the base does actually hold a treasure trove of useful information, then it could even be said that the people who lost their lives there will not have died in vain. You can't let morals and ethics get in the way too much when it comes to the survival of all sentient life in the galaxy, and that is why people who destroy the base simply to "stick it to TIM" are letting their emotions take precedence over survival, which is very risky behavior in my opinion...riskier than handing the base to Cerberus. The Council has proven themselves to be willfully ignorant of the Reaper threat and the Alliance has pretty much abandoned you and also chooses to largely ignore the Reapers. Cerberus is the only organization with any power that is willing to fight the Reapers, and if you alienate them by destroying the base, you lose your only significant ally, and, more importantly, you lose their large supply of resources and their funding.



I don't particularly like handing the base to TIM but it's still preferable to destroying it. The idea that Cerberus is going to start creating their own Reapers is utterly ludicrous; the amount of people that would need to be kidnapped is astronomical and would NOT go unnoticed. Furthermore Cerberus is not a large organization and the logistics of such an operation prove to be impossible. If TIM uses the base to establish Human dominance in the galaxy, well, then so be it. It still offers the galaxy the greatest chance of survival, and there's no saying that Shepard and/or organized dissidents can't dismantle TIM if necessary after the Reapers are dealt with. I would actually like to see TIM assume the leadership of the galaxy with humans as a whole at the head at the end of ME3, only for him to be assassinated (whether by Shepard, disgruntled Cerberus operatives, or even subjugated aliens) with Shepard, or an appointee selected by Shepard ala the nomination of the human councilor at the end of ME1, taking his place and continuing the human-dominance philosophy or extending a fairer hand to the people of the galaxy.

[MaaZeus]

I'd rather destroy it than give it to those Cerberus, despite their big talk they clearly cannot handle such technology responsibly. If Bioware would have given us an option to give it to council and/or alliance, I would take that choice over all else.

[Spartas Husky]

MaaZeus wrote...

I'd rather destroy it than give it to those Cerberus, despite their big talk they clearly cannot handle such technology responsibly. If Bioware would have given us an option to give it to council and/or alliance, I would take that choice over all else.

I wish there was an option....

A. Give it to cerberus.

B. destroy it.

C. Put the automatic pilot to have the base travel to the citadel....on a collision vector.


Council: COmmander Shepherd is this accurate? you have retrieved the base and your on your way here?

Shepherd: Yes councilor...although the base is on its way there, it should be arriving now.

Council: Wait...why aren't you?

Shepherd:.....you'll realize in about...*looks at watch* 3...2....1 should be clear rigt now..

Council: OMG!!! shepherd is going to hit the citadel!!!! is coming in to fast.

Shepherd:......."ah yes collector base" I have dismissed that claim....


BOom!!!!!

COuncil: Transmission Cancelled.

Shepherd:....man that "dismiss" that claim crap really is quite gratifying, I see why now the council did it.....

[Yakko77]

Spartas Husky wrote...

MaaZeus wrote...

I'd rather destroy it than give it to those Cerberus, despite their big talk they clearly cannot handle such technology responsibly. If Bioware would have given us an option to give it to council and/or alliance, I would take that choice over all else.

I wish there was an option....

A. Give it to cerberus.

B. destroy it.

C. Put the automatic pilot to have the base travel to the citadel....on a collision vector.


Council: COmmander Shepherd is this accurate? you have retrieved the base and your on your way here?

Shepherd: Yes councilor...although the base is on its way there, it should be arriving now.

Council: Wait...why aren't you?

Shepherd:.....you'll realize in about...*looks at watch* 3...2....1 should be clear rigt now..

Council: OMG!!! shepherd is going to hit the citadel!!!! is coming in to fast.

Shepherd:......."ah yes collector base" I have dismissed that claim....


BOom!!!!!

COuncil: Transmission Cancelled.

Shepherd:....man that "dismiss" that claim crap really is quite gratifying, I see why now the council did it.....

2nd vote for option C.

[DPSSOC]

MaaZeus wrote...

I'd rather destroy it than give it to those Cerberus, despite their big talk they clearly cannot handle such technology responsibly. If Bioware would have given us an option to give it to council and/or alliance, I would take that choice over all else.

And what, precisely, makes you think the Council or Alliance would do any better?  The Council (both the organization in general and the Three Stooges specifically) has a long sad history of collosal **** ups, and the Alliance created and lost control of Cerberus, what does that say about their ability to handle something like this?

I've said in a previous post I have no doubt that Cerberus is going to manage the base poorly, many people will most likely die needlessly horrific deaths because of their mismanagement, but to claim that any other organization we're exposed to could do any better ignores how utterly incompetent they show themselves to be.