3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Kenrae]

implodinggoat wrote...
If you want to take the Reapers down you need to hit them with something they don't understand, not weapons based upon tech which they've been mastering for millions of years.

So, we have to fight them using rocks? Because, you know, everything we have is Reaper-based.

[Panda Warlock]

Kenrae wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
If you want to take the Reapers down you need to hit them with something they don't understand, not weapons based upon tech which they've been mastering for millions of years.

So, we have to fight them using rocks? Because, you know, everything we have is Reaper-based.

That's a great idea! We must find a high lvl warlock to cast Meteor Swarm on the Reapers. They won't stand a chance!
It's practically a suicide. I volunteer.

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Well I'm not because the shoe fits, so Timmy better wear it

You are, you are applying a quote to a situation in which it doesn't fit. We're not talking about passing some kind- oh **** it. Why bother? Do the human species proud and slam your head repeatedly with a car door.

Oh so "People who give up liberty for some security are cowards" isn't relevent to this discussion? Oddly enough, I find that it does apply to all the people who are crowing that handing the Collector base to an egomaniac is a nessacery evil. Do the geth a favor and go -redacted-

[StodgyFrost98]

My prediction is that if you save the base and don't blow it up Cerberus will use it to make their own Reaper Army and possibly might take down the Reaper fleet. If they do this successfully then they get all the credit and their reputation is restored. All of this is speculation.

[StodgyFrost98]

Kenrae wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
If you want to take the Reapers down you need to hit them with something they don't understand, not weapons based upon tech which they've been mastering for millions of years.

So, we have to fight them using rocks? Because, you know, everything we have is Reaper-based.

For me that in the end you have to activate some sort of black hole or relay that will send all of the Reapers away from our galaxy.  This is just theory. 

[Sajuro]

Kenrae wrote...

implodinggoat wrote...
If you want to take the Reapers down you need to hit them with something they don't understand, not weapons based upon tech which they've been mastering for millions of years.

So, we have to fight them using rocks? Because, you know, everything we have is Reaper-based.

no, we fight them using all human weaponry. The Atom bomb, The Hydrogen bomb, and every other nuke we have and will have come up with by then. Remember, we have enough bombs to kill every human 60 times and literally blow up the earth ten times (I believe).

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

It's not similar at all. All you are accomplishing is robbing yourself of potentially life-saving intel so that you can "stick it to the man". Franklin quotes won't help you when Reapers are massacring entire planets.

If you really feel the way you say you do then you shouldn't accept working with Cerberus to begin with.

I worked with Cerberus to save the humans colonies, I don't see how that would be giving up any liberty.

[Nightwriter]

Let's discuss the threat of indoctrination the base poses. Namely, whether there is one or not. It's often been brought up. I want to talk about it.

So - one side scoffs at the suggestion there is any indoctrination threat present. Last time it was a dead Reaper. This is just a Collector base. It's very different. And it's stupid to throw away the galaxy on the off chance of a potential indoctrination threat. We should risk it. We need to study indoctrination anyway.

The other side points out that there is a dead Reaper in that base, poor lil' T-800 down there at the bottom of a pit. Plus there's all kinds of dangerous Reaper-makin' technology running through the whole station, and who knows what kind of indoctrination signals that had been keeping the Collectors in line.

Personally, I think it's foolish to assume there absolutely won't be an indoctrination threat there, but on the other hand, it was just a larva Reaper. It's not fair to assume it even had indoctrination capabilities yet.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 08 juin 2010 - 11:31 .

[Sajuro]

Since people who say we should keep the base have stressed that it has reaper parts; it would be prudent to assume that they have an indoctrination device and not to far off to say that it is passive as the indoctrination in the dead reaper still worked.

[Vaenier]

Nightwriter wrote...

Personally, I think it's foolish to assume there absolutely won't be an indoctrination threat there, but on the other hand, it was just a larva Reaper. It's not fair to assume it even had indoctrination capabilities yet.

Exactly. Dont assume anything. You can blow up the base anytime in the future, but you cant put it back together. So what if you sacrifice some Cerberus scientists to indoctrination, you hate them anyway, right?

Measure twice, cut once.

[philiposophy]

I got the impression the base was built by the Reapers before the Collectors were even around. So by that you could argue that it could have indoctrination built into the base itself by virtue of being a Reaper construct. The indoctrination technology we know is not restricted to the Reapers themselves (as in Sovereign and Harbinger), they've left behind artifacts that indoctrinate and/or huskify people in other places.



I'm not sure if I necessarily believe that is the case, but it's worth considering as a possibility.

[Nightwriter]

Vaenier wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Personally, I think it's foolish to assume there absolutely won't be an indoctrination threat there, but on the other hand, it was just a larva Reaper. It's not fair to assume it even had indoctrination capabilities yet.

Exactly. Dont assume anything. You can blow up the base anytime in the future, but you cant put it back together. So what if you sacrifice some Cerberus scientists to indoctrination, you hate them anyway, right?

Measure twice, cut once.

You have Shand's picture, I was about to say "that's reasonable, Shand..."

So anyway, that's reasonable, Vaenier! (sorry Shand) But I've noticed those who keep the base always tend to assume they will have power over it that they won't.

TIM is in control of this base now. How can you be sure he will ever let you blow it up? You think it's you who will be making this decision? And does TIM strike you as a man who accepts failure? He'll always just want to try again.

More likely, if something goes wrong, you will have to stop it once it's already in motion, not before.

Oh and I don't hate Cerberus personnel, silly bean. Thinking that good people can't work for a sinister organization is ridiculous. 

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Christmas Ape wrote...

The Councils actions in protecting many species over a long, long, long period of time from harm

Unless they're krogan or rachni.

and facilitating their communal benefit

Assuming they're not krogan, rachni, batarian, or drell.

completely outstrips Cerberus's recent activities.

Cerberus hasn't had more than a thousand years to slip its fingers into every pie worth the effort. It has, however - via the Lazarus Project - saved humanity from annihilation and conversion into genepaste.
Non-Council races eradicated by Council: 2
Non-Council races eradicated by Cerberus: 1 (Reaper-controlled)
Non-Council races saved by Council: 0
Non-Council races saved by Cerberus: 1

Moral victor: Cerberus.

Um no, back to grade 1 for reading (and quoting within context) but hey.

[Vaenier]

Nightwriter wrote...

TIM is in control of this base now. How can you be sure he will ever let you blow it up? You think it's you who will be making this decision? And does TIM strike you as a man who accepts failure? He'll always just want to try again.

More likely, if something goes wrong, you will have to stop it once it's already in motion, not before.

Oh and I don't hate Cerberus personnel, silly bean. Thinking that good people can't work for a sinister organization is ridiculous. 

Collectors > Cerberus.
Shep > Collectors.
Thus: Shep > Cerberus?

Anyway, it would be much easier to take it from the now struggling Cerberus than the Collectors. Plus you could always go to the council and tell them you just found the super secret base of the terrorist organization behind several major incidents... They will give you backup when you dont sound like a mad man. "You are right, it was all Cerberus, a human group. Here is there base."

Worst case senario in the base is some dozen scientists get Husked or he tries to hold up in it with a few dozen Cerberus commandos.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Since people who say we should keep the base have stressed that it has reaper parts; it would be prudent to assume that they have an indoctrination device and not to far off to say that it is passive as the indoctrination in the dead reaper still worked.

Which presents an excellent opportunity to study indoctrination in a controlled environment prior to the arrival of the Reapers. I agree that it is prudent we study this phenomena now while the Reapers aren't yet rampaging across the galaxy.

Dear Shand, "controlled environment" and "indoctrination" - 2 things I doubt anyone believes Cerberus can manage in any reasonable fashion... It'll go down with everyone screaming and getting burnt to a crisp.

Yo Paragon Shep don't roll like that.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Sajuro wrote...

Since people who say we should keep the base have stressed that it has reaper parts; it would be prudent to assume that they have an indoctrination device and not to far off to say that it is passive as the indoctrination in the dead reaper still worked.

Just out of interest, they cleaned up sovereign on the citadel but as far as I have seen so far - no indoctrination was in action from the parts.... (??)

[Vaenier]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Since people who say we should keep the base have stressed that it has reaper parts; it would be prudent to assume that they have an indoctrination device and not to far off to say that it is passive as the indoctrination in the dead reaper still worked.

Just out of interest, they cleaned up sovereign on the citadel but as far as I have seen so far - no indoctrination was in action from the parts.... (??)

They will argue it just hasnt been noticed after two years.

Arguing without access to real facts is a pain in the ass.

[Nightwriter]

Vaenier wrote...

Collectors > Cerberus.
Shep > Collectors.
Thus: Shep > Cerberus?

Remember that you defeated the Collectors largely with Cerberus's help and support.

Vaenier wrote...

Anyway, it would be much easier to take it from the now struggling Cerberus than the Collectors. Plus you could always go to the council and tell them you just found the super secret base of the terrorist organization behind several major incidents... They will give you backup when you dont sound like a mad man. "You are right, it was all Cerberus, a human group. Here is there base."

Worst case senario in the base is some dozen scientists get Husked or he tries to hold up in it with a few dozen Cerberus commandos.

Lol. That's the worst case scenario, huh?

Though yeah, you're right. I do like considering what it will be like to "tell" on Cerberus by running to the Council. Will they even believe us, I wonder?

"Let me get this straight. You want us to search for this... 'base'... by sending ships into the Terminus Systems? Haven't we had this song and dance before, Commander?"

[LeoInterVir]

I never destroyed the Collector Base, no matter how good or bad Shepard is.
I have no problems with Cerberus having the base.
"The Council" doesn't believe you.
The Systems Aliance doesn't believe you and thinks you are a traitor.
Cerberus or rather the Illusive Man believes you, risks a fortune, brings you back from death, and is behind you every step of the way, irrelevant of how you go about your goals.

Modifié par LeoInterVir, 09 juin 2010 - 12:56 .

[Vaenier]

Nightwriter wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Collectors > Cerberus.
Shep > Collectors.
Thus: Shep > Cerberus?

Remember that you defeated the Collectors largely with Cerberus's help and support.

But Cerberus couldnt do it themselves. And you can get help and support elsewhere, not to mention you keep the ship and crew.

Vaenier wrote...

Anyway, it would be much easier to take it from the now struggling Cerberus than the Collectors. Plus you could always go to the council and tell them you just found the super secret base of the terrorist organization behind several major incidents... They will give you backup when you dont sound like a mad man. "You are right, it was all Cerberus, a human group. Here is there base."

Worst case senario in the base is some dozen scientists get Husked or he tries to hold up in it with a few dozen Cerberus commandos.

Lol. That's the worst case scenario, huh?

Though yeah, you're right. I do like considering what it will be like to "tell" on Cerberus by running to the Council. Will they even believe us, I wonder?

"Let me get this straight. You want us to search for this... 'base'... by sending ships into the Terminus Systems? Haven't we had this song and dance before, Commander?"

Suck up and kiss ass. Tell them how right they were the entire time, how you were crazy before but have come to your senses and agree with them. every polition loves a good ass kissing.

[Sajuro]

Vaenier wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Collectors > Cerberus.
Shep > Collectors.
Thus: Shep > Cerberus?

Remember that you defeated the Collectors largely with Cerberus's help and support.

But Cerberus couldnt do it themselves. And you can get help and support elsewhere, not to mention you keep the ship and crew.

Vaenier wrote...

Anyway, it would be much easier to take it from the now struggling Cerberus than the Collectors. Plus you could always go to the council and tell them you just found the super secret base of the terrorist organization behind several major incidents... They will give you backup when you dont sound like a mad man. "You are right, it was all Cerberus, a human group. Here is there base."

Worst case senario in the base is some dozen scientists get Husked or he tries to hold up in it with a few dozen Cerberus commandos.

Lol. That's the worst case scenario, huh?

Though yeah, you're right. I do like considering what it will be like to "tell" on Cerberus by running to the Council. Will they even believe us, I wonder?

"Let me get this straight. You want us to search for this... 'base'... by sending ships into the Terminus Systems? Haven't we had this song and dance before, Commander?"

Suck up and kiss ass. Tell them how right they were the entire time, how you were crazy before but have come to your senses and agree with them. every polition loves a good ass kissing.

though you might have to go a bit lower (at least to the other side) for the Turian Councilor. Don't ahem... ingest.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

atheelogos wrote...

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

I fail to see the point in doing it. Preserving the base seemed convientient and perhaps increased the chances of getting collector weapons and tech in ME3. I don't get why the majority of the community destroy it. The last person I asked just said it was "to get a more satifying explosion" but it seems like more than that.

They destroy it because there're short sighted fools. Keeping Reaper technology has helped the crew of the Normandy every single time they did it. To detroy the base is a dangerous mistake from my point of view.

Personally, from my point of view, I would give the base to the Citadel Council only.. I simply will not give it to TIM who is a "Saren waiting to happen". Cerberus just isn't qualified or trustworthy enough to handle it and who has dubious objectives with the roll out of any acquired technology.

He'd only put all the other races off side at the last minute after he'd acquired any new technology, negotiating unreasonable terms for them to use the tech and possibly jeopardising the war effort in doing so.