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[SSV Enterprise]

Two reasons:



A. Any previous interaction with Reaper technology has resulted in the indoctrination of the researchers.



B. I don't want the technology in the hands of the Illusive Man.

[Sereaph502]

This thread shows just how ignorant people are on both sides of the fence. The only argument I've seen in these 21 pages for pro-collector base is "it has good tech." There are also arguments for against-collector base that only consist of "TIM is a jerk."



I understand a lot of you don't want to conform to the majority vote and want to be special being the only one who wants to be for getting the collector base when every character in the game as well as the creators of ME2 say it's a bad idea...But you all have to look at the facts:



In ME1, Sovereign specifically tells you that they have been able to harvest races for millions of years because they progress in technology the way the reapers wanted them to.



If humanity started to make their own reapers, guess who their enemy is? Reapers. Guess who has the upper hand? The Reapers. They know their kind much better than any race currently in the galaxy, Shepard included. Heck, they might even be able to turn the human made reaper ships against them somehow.



Did you see how reapers were made in ME2? They were created by harvesting hundreds of thousands (and possibly millions/billions/trillions judging by the end) of lives. Are those of you who are pro-collector base willing to commit genocide on a galactic scale just to make ONE SINGLE reaper? Personally, I'd rather keep as many people as I can alive instead of causing every race in the galaxy besides humans to go extinct, but I guess that's the mentality of keeping the base, right? "Humans are the best! Screw the aliens!"



The main thing is my last point, for obvious reasons. But hey, go ahead and ignore all this and continue playing in your fantasy world where keeping the collector base is the best thing since sliced bread and nothing could ever go wrong with it just because you say so.



Now then, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go tell TIM to shove it again.

[Onyx Jaguar]

That's how I view it

[Neuzhelin]

Sereaph502 wrote...

This thread shows just how ignorant people are on both sides of the fence. The only argument I've seen in these 21 pages for pro-collector base is "it has good tech." There are also arguments for against-collector base that only consist of "TIM is a jerk."

I understand a lot of you don't want to conform to the majority vote and want to be special being the only one who wants to be for getting the collector base when every character in the game as well as the creators of ME2 say it's a bad idea...But you all have to look at the facts:

In ME1, Sovereign specifically tells you that they have been able to harvest races for millions of years because they progress in technology the way the reapers wanted them to.

If humanity started to make their own reapers, guess who their enemy is? Reapers. Guess who has the upper hand? The Reapers. They know their kind much better than any race currently in the galaxy, Shepard included. Heck, they might even be able to turn the human made reaper ships against them somehow.

Did you see how reapers were made in ME2? They were created by harvesting hundreds of thousands (and possibly millions/billions/trillions judging by the end) of lives. Are those of you who are pro-collector base willing to commit genocide on a galactic scale just to make ONE SINGLE reaper? Personally, I'd rather keep as many people as I can alive instead of causing every race in the galaxy besides humans to go extinct, but I guess that's the mentality of keeping the base, right? "Humans are the best! Screw the aliens!"

The main thing is my last point, for obvious reasons. But hey, go ahead and ignore all this and continue playing in your fantasy world where keeping the collector base is the best thing since sliced bread and nothing could ever go wrong with it just because you say so.

Now then, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go tell TIM to shove it again.

Have you actually read my posts before posting that?

All your points are already risen, apart from "In ME1, Sovereign specifically tells you that they have been able to
harvest races for millions of years because they progress in technology
the way the reapers wanted them to." which seems obvious if one has played ME1.

[LorDC]

Sereaph502 wrote...

This thread shows just how ignorant people are on both sides of the fence. The only argument I've seen in these 21 pages for pro-collector base is "it has good tech." There are also arguments for against-collector base that only consist of "TIM is a jerk."

I understand a lot of you don't want to conform to the majority vote and want to be special being the only one who wants to be for getting the collector base when every character in the game as well as the creators of ME2 say it's a bad idea...But you all have to look at the facts:

In ME1, Sovereign specifically tells you that they have been able to harvest races for millions of years because they progress in technology the way the reapers wanted them to.

If humanity started to make their own reapers, guess who their enemy is? Reapers. Guess who has the upper hand? The Reapers. They know their kind much better than any race currently in the galaxy, Shepard included. Heck, they might even be able to turn the human made reaper ships against them somehow.

Did you see how reapers were made in ME2? They were created by harvesting hundreds of thousands (and possibly millions/billions/trillions judging by the end) of lives. Are those of you who are pro-collector base willing to commit genocide on a galactic scale just to make ONE SINGLE reaper? Personally, I'd rather keep as many people as I can alive instead of causing every race in the galaxy besides humans to go extinct, but I guess that's the mentality of keeping the base, right? "Humans are the best! Screw the aliens!"

The main thing is my last point, for obvious reasons. But hey, go ahead and ignore all this and continue playing in your fantasy world where keeping the collector base is the best thing since sliced bread and nothing could ever go wrong with it just because you say so.

Now then, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go tell TIM to shove it again.

So you think that you are smartest guy around here. "OMG Cerberus is gonna make Human Reaper!" argument was risen before. I can retort that even if TIM wanted to make Human Reaper(which i doubt since there isn't any evidence) he could not make it since decimating few billions of lives is not something he(or anyone else) can do. Or do you seriously think that Cerberus can secretly(or even openly) take away half of Earth's population away?

[Dean_the_Young]

STG wrote...

I wonder how a renegade player who also destroyed the base will fare in ME3. Considering you have only a few groups watching your back.

That thought leads me to believe that the base won't matter much in the long run.

The only faction that would likely abandon you for giving the base to Cerberus is the Council.

Which already more or less abandoned you, forcing you to stay allied with Cerberus in the first place.

Little indicates the Rachni, Krogan, Geth, or even the Quarians will refuse to work with you for keeping the base.

[StodgyFrost98]

FROST4584 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Wait, what's wrong with not letting fear compromise who he is?

The Reapers are the greatest threat Humanity and the Council races have ever faced. Shepard says he will not become a monster to stop monsters.

There's a reason why every crew member disagrees with you keeping the base. That's called foreshadowing to bad things to come. No good can come from keeping that base. But every Cerberus fanboy in the forums will disagree with that until the shoe drops in ME3.

I disagree and am NOT a Cerberus fanboy. I find it funny that people (including the writers of ME2) say nothing good can come from the base. Do some people not know what a base is? A base just doesn't fit on catogory of use, it could have vital information. It could have weapons, numbers, information on weakness, the direction the Reapers are coming from do to Hambger signal, and any number of things.

 The game is one of the most hypocritical games I've played.  Explain how will destorying the base will solve anything. The main reason to keep the base to study information the fight against the Reapers The second the prove that you need to prove the threat is real.

Let me put it another way.

In fact I want all those who destoryed the Collector Base to answer this question especially you FoolsFolly:

Did YOU USE the THANIX Cannon to beat the Collector ship with only two hits?

Chances are very high that most people did. Guess what you saved at least 1 of your squadmates by doing to. So studying Reaper tech isn't all that bad right?  Think at how many lives will be saved if possible information from the base is used in the final show down.

In fact if you do very thing right such as get all upgrades and all loyal missions before you get the IFF, what does Shep say just before he or she hits the Omega 4 relay. Shep says; "We have Reaper Technogly backing us , we are ready."  Another example of the writter hypocritical writting. When they get a Reaper BASE then they want to destory Reaper tech. If that was the case Shep should have destoryed the Normandy's EDI, since they can't trust it since it is Reaper tech.

The writters of Mass Effect 2 just made up very lame reasons to destory the Collector base.

In my opinion in ME3 if you give the base to the Illusive Man then he will use its technology to create a reaper army for their doing to take down the bad reapers and they will earn all the fame and glory thus having their reputation restored.

[StodgyFrost98]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

STG wrote...

I wonder how a renegade player who also destroyed the base will fare in ME3. Considering you have only a few groups watching your back.

That thought leads me to believe that the base won't matter much in the long run.

The only faction that would likely abandon you for giving the base to Cerberus is the Council.

Which already more or less abandoned you, forcing you to stay allied with Cerberus in the first place.

Little indicates the Rachni, Krogan, Geth, or even the Quarians will refuse to work with you for keeping the base.

\\

The council never agrees to anything Shepard says since they are very political and don't want a lot to handle when it comes to reporters or the news.  The rachni and Krogan might agree to work with you but the Geth and Quarians have their own little war going on.

[StodgyFrost98]

Sereaph502 wrote...

This thread shows just how ignorant people are on both sides of the fence. The only argument I've seen in these 21 pages for pro-collector base is "it has good tech." There are also arguments for against-collector base that only consist of "TIM is a jerk."

I understand a lot of you don't want to conform to the majority vote and want to be special being the only one who wants to be for getting the collector base when every character in the game as well as the creators of ME2 say it's a bad idea...But you all have to look at the facts:

In ME1, Sovereign specifically tells you that they have been able to harvest races for millions of years because they progress in technology the way the reapers wanted them to.

If humanity started to make their own reapers, guess who their enemy is? Reapers. Guess who has the upper hand? The Reapers. They know their kind much better than any race currently in the galaxy, Shepard included. Heck, they might even be able to turn the human made reaper ships against them somehow.

Did you see how reapers were made in ME2? They were created by harvesting hundreds of thousands (and possibly millions/billions/trillions judging by the end) of lives. Are those of you who are pro-collector base willing to commit genocide on a galactic scale just to make ONE SINGLE reaper? Personally, I'd rather keep as many people as I can alive instead of causing every race in the galaxy besides humans to go extinct, but I guess that's the mentality of keeping the base, right? "Humans are the best! Screw the aliens!"

The main thing is my last point, for obvious reasons. But hey, go ahead and ignore all this and continue playing in your fantasy world where keeping the collector base is the best thing since sliced bread and nothing could ever go wrong with it just because you say so.

Now then, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to go tell TIM to shove it again.

Either decision you make in the ending wether you keep the base or destroy has a consequence.  If you destroy the base you lose valuable knowledge and intel that could help take down the reapers, thus you will have to rally armies to take them down leading to an epic space battle.  If you don't then the Illusive Man will misuse the technology and use it to take down the Reapers by whatever means necessary, even if it means the extincintion of the other species. 

[StodgyFrost98]

SSV Enterprise wrote...

Two reasons:

A. Any previous interaction with Reaper technology has resulted in the indoctrination of the researchers.

B. I don't want the technology in the hands of the Illusive Man.

True the Illusive Man then becomes another Saren and thus he is the main villain in ME3 where he is controlled by Harbinger.

[StodgyFrost98]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Wait, what's wrong with not letting fear compromise who he is?

The Reapers are the greatest threat Humanity and the Council races have ever faced. Shepard says he will not become a monster to stop monsters.

There's a reason why every crew member disagrees with you keeping the base. That's called foreshadowing to bad things to come. No good can come from keeping that base. But every Cerberus fanboy in the forums will disagree with that until the shoe drops in ME3.

This is how I see it in ME3 if you don't destroy the base.  Illusive Man and Cerberus get a hold of technology.  The entire Cerberus company are indoctrinated and the Illusive Man as well.  Illusive Man is controlled by Harbinger and controls his indoctrinated army to take on Shepard and the rest of the galaxy.

[StodgyFrost98]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I destroyed the base. Mostly just because I think TIM would end up doing something horrible with it. If I could give it to the Alliance and/or the Citadel sure but TIM is not to be trusted with such tech.

I rather wouldn't give to any of them since one of them might mistakely tamper with it.  If they tamper they will end up indoctrinated and their leader will probably be controlled by Harbinger.

[StodgyFrost98]

Yakko77 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Well giving it to anyone else is not an option since its in the Terminus and Cerberus are the only ones with Tech to reach the Collector base

Cerberus WERE the only ones with the tech to get into the Terminus.  

That tech was on the Normandy SR2 and it sounds as if most players tell TIM to stuff it.  Add to that the loyalty of the crew and even EDI it's unlikely TIM  could take that away easily.

Also, given the two year time gap, I wonder if the Normany SR1 wasn't just a prototype but rather the first of a new class of frigate.  That may be unlikely given the SR1 was destroyed thus leaving the Alliance in doubt as to its stealth capabilities let alone the cost.

I wonder though how they will upgrade to the Normandy SR3??

[StodgyFrost98]

Captain Uccisore wrote...

My Shepard is paragade and usually tries to make the most pragmatic and strategically valid decisions...

But he really hates TIM. So he blew up the base.

Akuze, ****.

There is no right or wrong decision, every choice you make has a consequence and positive impact to different people.

[Sajuro]

StodgyFrost98 wrote...

Captain Uccisore wrote...

My Shepard is paragade and usually tries to make the most pragmatic and strategically valid decisions...

But he really hates TIM. So he blew up the base.

Akuze, ****.

There is no right or wrong decision, every choice you make has a consequence and positive impact to different people.

So blowing or keeping the base won't screw you over?

[Dean_the_Young]

'There is no right or wrong' really only applies to people without convictions one way or another.

[STG]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

STG wrote...

I wonder how a renegade player who also destroyed the base will fare in ME3. Considering you have only a few groups watching your back.

That thought leads me to believe that the base won't matter much in the long run.

The only faction that would likely abandon you for giving the base to Cerberus is the Council.

Which already more or less abandoned you, forcing you to stay allied with Cerberus in the first place.

Little indicates the Rachni, Krogan, Geth, or even the Quarians will refuse to work with you for keeping the base.

Except that as a renegade player you: killed the rachni queen, have no genophage cure, reduced geth numbers and sent quarians to war.

Keeping the base is a renegade choice, and as I said:
"I wonder how a renegade player who also destroyed the base will fare in
ME3."

[FROST4584]

StodgyFrost98 wrote...

FROST4584 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Wait, what's wrong with not letting fear compromise who he is?

The Reapers are the greatest threat Humanity and the Council races have ever faced. Shepard says he will not become a monster to stop monsters.

There's a reason why every crew member disagrees with you keeping the base. That's called foreshadowing to bad things to come. No good can come from keeping that base. But every Cerberus fanboy in the forums will disagree with that until the shoe drops in ME3.

I disagree and am NOT a Cerberus fanboy. I find it funny that people (including the writers of ME2) say nothing good can come from the base. Do some people not know what a base is? A base just doesn't fit on catogory of use, it could have vital information. It could have weapons, numbers, information on weakness, the direction the Reapers are coming from do to Hambger signal, and any number of things.

 The game is one of the most hypocritical games I've played.  Explain how will destorying the base will solve anything. The main reason to keep the base to study information the fight against the Reapers The second the prove that you need to prove the threat is real.

Let me put it another way.

In fact I want all those who destoryed the Collector Base to answer this question especially you FoolsFolly:

Did YOU USE the THANIX Cannon to beat the Collector ship with only two hits?

Chances are very high that most people did. Guess what you saved at least 1 of your squadmates by doing to. So studying Reaper tech isn't all that bad right?  Think at how many lives will be saved if possible information from the base is used in the final show down.

In fact if you do very thing right such as get all upgrades and all loyal missions before you get the IFF, what does Shep say just before he or she hits the Omega 4 relay. Shep says; "We have Reaper Technogly backing us , we are ready."  Another example of the writter hypocritical writting. When they get a Reaper BASE then they want to destory Reaper tech. If that was the case Shep should have destoryed the Normandy's EDI, since they can't trust it since it is Reaper tech.

The writters of Mass Effect 2 just made up very lame reasons to destory the Collector base.

In my opinion in ME3 if you give the base to the Illusive Man then he will use its technology to create a reaper army for their doing to take down the bad reapers and they will earn all the fame and glory thus having their reputation restored.

No offense. That isn't a opinion, it is unsupported speculation. Finding important information on the base is logical because if you break into someone base or house, you will find something such as informtion.

TIM is already sort of the enemy. He is the enemy of my enemy, of the greater threat that is going something against the Reapers.

Modifié par FROST4584, 10 juin 2010 - 04:08 .

[RGFrog]

Meh, give him the base. Miri knows where he lives. You kept the Cerberus info for yourself, and you let kasumi keep the alliance info... both are assumed to be damning to either group, right? So, if TIM finds something useful and doesn't go ape-****e maniacal with it, fine.

If he does, or if the Alliance does, whip out the information, then take the Normandy on a field trip and gut TIM. Miri was willing to quit Cerb. just for experiencing the base. I'm sure she'll back you turning TIM into an area rug if he goes astray.

[Sajuro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

'There is no right or wrong' really only applies to people without convictions one way or another.

What about people who abandon their convictions when said convictions become incovienient?

[DPSSOC]

Sereaph502 wrote...
In ME1, Sovereign specifically tells you that they have been able to harvest races for millions of years because they progress in technology the way the reapers wanted them to.

Yes and this fails to apply after ME1 because we're going beyond the Reapers intent.  The technology left for us to find is easy to use but difficult to understand which is intended to create an artificial plateau.  By using the tech the Reapers meant for organics to find it allows the Reapers to predict fairly accurately the technological level of organics at any given time and strike when they know they have the advantage.

It defies sense to think that the Reapers intended for Sovereign to be destroyed so we'd get the Thannix, or that they intended us to find the Reaper factory.  The moment we began to study Sovereign's remains we jumped off the technological path the Reapers wanted us to follow.

Sovereign's statement never implied (to me) that technology based on Reaper tech has some kind of kill switch built in, it simply stated that by leaving what they did behind the Reapers were able to predict where a species would stand when they came to collect.

Sereaph502 wrote...
If humanity started to make their own reapers, guess who their enemy is? Reapers. Guess who has the upper hand? The Reapers. They know their kind much better than any race currently in the galaxy, Shepard included. Heck, they might even be able to turn the human made reaper ships against them somehow.

Did you see how reapers were made in ME2? They were created by harvesting hundreds of thousands (and possibly millions/billions/trillions judging by the end) of lives. Are those of you who are pro-collector base willing to commit genocide on a galactic scale just to make ONE SINGLE reaper? Personally, I'd rather keep as many people as I can alive instead of causing every race in the galaxy besides humans to go extinct, but I guess that's the mentality of keeping the base, right? "Humans are the best! Screw the aliens!"

Who's proposing this?  I've admittedly missed a few posts but who's proposing building a Reaper army?  The value of the base isn't that we can make a Reaper it's that we can see how Reapers are built, reverse engineer some of their more impressive toys, and look for weak points.  If I give you a steel box and tell you to break it you'll go much faster if you know how it was put together.  Furthermore the construction process of the Reapers is because of what they are.  You could replicate the form and tech of a Reaper vessel without having to slurry people.  Example; I find a shoe I like and would like to make a similar shoe myself, it turns out this particular shoe was made with sweatshop labour, do I need to use sweatshop labour to recreate the shoe?

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Sereaph502 wrote...
You could replicate the form and tech of a Reaper vessel without having to slurry people.  Example; I find a shoe I like and would like to make a similar shoe myself, it turns out this particular shoe was made with sweatshop labour, do I need to use sweatshop labour to recreate the shoe?

Hmm, Reaper without Reaper juice = lifeless Reaper.
Hmpf, I have no idea, but I am guessing organic races finely blended into smoothies is required as Reaper blood, lymphatic system etc.
I wonder if the separate our pieces before throwing us through the meat grinder? (soz, jokes)

[Dean_the_Young]

Since various elements of Reaper technology are demonstratively reproducible without reaper smoothie materials, there's no point in investing in a whole new Reaper in the first place when you can selectively take the parts you want and apply them to the existing space ships we have. Things like weapons, engines, shields, AI warfare. Even our own Mass Relay technology, since the Protheans proved you could go down that path without smoothie materials.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

'There is no right or wrong' really only applies to people without convictions one way or another.

What about people who abandon their convictions when said convictions become incovienient?

That, too, is a conviction.

More relevantly, so is recognizing that everyday morality does not uniformly apply to emergencies.

[Dean_the_Young]

STG wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

STG wrote...

I wonder how a renegade player who also destroyed the base will fare in ME3. Considering you have only a few groups watching your back.

That thought leads me to believe that the base won't matter much in the long run.

The only faction that would likely abandon you for giving the base to Cerberus is the Council.

Which already more or less abandoned you, forcing you to stay allied with Cerberus in the first place.

Little indicates the Rachni, Krogan, Geth, or even the Quarians will refuse to work with you for keeping the base.

Except that as a renegade player you: killed the rachni queen, have no genophage cure, reduced geth numbers and sent quarians to war.

Keeping the base is a renegade choice, and as I said:
"I wonder how a renegade player who also destroyed the base will fare in
ME3."

Playing a renegade doesn't mean all lower right options, all the time, with no Paragon choices, nor are all renegade options horrible things paragons should be opposed to or paragon options vice versa. Besides weaknesses in the Paragon/Renegade setup in general, there is plenty of grounds for cross-justification.

I, for example, don't save the Rachni Queen on the impulse that killing one person is equiavalent to a genocide campaign. No, I save her on the bet that if she does cause trouble it will be manageable trouble that either the Turians will have to deal with or will de facto allow the Alliance to have an arms buildup, either of which benefit Humanity's relative position even if the worse comes to pass.

I can never square why brainwashing the Heretics is a Paragon option.

If I have Legion in my party and know of Geth openness to peace, sending the Quarians to war is a just plain stupid option. (Left side of the wheel breaks from Paragon/Renegade anyway).


Choosing the base itself is independent to the rest of the choices you can make. There is no forced shoe-in to other choices.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 10 juin 2010 - 10:52 .