3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Tempest]

I don't know what anyone else thinks, but to me there is 1 very strong obvious point.    If Normandy 2 was able to be easily hacked from a "basic" FFT program (or whatever it was called, forgot already) that what do you think a full sized base of reaper influenced technology would do to any alien technology?   My fear from using the base was simple.  If I hand this over to ANYONE, it would be like giving a "Come and destroy us again" ticket to the reapers.  Who knows what kind of Reaper based computer viruses they have inside the collector base.

If you want to know what I mean, just look at the movie District 9.
*************************************************Spoiler************************************************************
Just from the main actor just slightly tampering with a foreign object he started to transform.   What do you think will happen if our guys started tampering with Reaper tech who are VERY WELL KNOWN to mess with the minds of mortals?  

[Tempest]

Shandepared wrote...

Keeping the Collector base will reduce the technological gap, which will reduce causalities in the war. (or at least stands a better chance than your zerg rush)

I was really deciding on the whole base thing.  It was either have tech that can face the reapers OR have a base that is secretly, and thinking on its own, making husks and brainwashing scientists.

[StodgyFrost98]

Sildroni wrote...

StodgyFrost98 wrote...
[It stinks though that you can't preserve the base and give it to intelligent people who will you use it wisely against the battle with the Reapers.  For example, the Salarians(Mordin) and the Turians.

What intelligent people?  The council says Reapers don't exist (even tho Anderson keeps telling them that they do (provided he's a councillor))

Thanix Cannon reverse engineered by the Turians from Soverign pieces was only available to you after recruiting Garrus at TIM's suggestion.   Why isn't it part of every fleet's arsenal - politics? some lame balance of power?  Probably.

I was sorely tempted to blow up the base too, but you have to realize that Shepard's Team and Cerberus are the only ones making a stand.  The council didn't help because it was only human colonies being decimated, and the rest of the galaxy was happy to see us get beat on.

TIM needs to step up his game tho - and use the talents of the right people.  Loss of the Reaper derilict for study was a pretty big blow as well - regardless of grabbing the IFF out of it.  Wannabe mad scientists aren't going to cut it for the battles to come.

The council can't step up because they are political babies and believe they don't have juristiction in the Terminus systems.  They also believe Shepard is working with cerberus for nefarious reasons, which he isn't.  Personally letting them die was a smarter choice.  Personally for me letting the council live or udina take control are both bad choices since they both don't help or listen to Shepard. 

[DPSSOC]

StodgyFrost98 wrote...

It stinks though that you can't preserve the base and give it to intelligent people who will you use it wisely against the battle with the Reapers.  For example, the Salarians(Mordin) and the Turians.

So rather than give the tech to a pro-human group (whatever your views Shepard is human) where there's a small chance they've got your well being in mind you'd give it to a species that not 3 decades ago was intent on making your species a historical footnote (*and then the Turians killed off some species with oddly placed fur).  I'm not saying it would doom the human race but I can see many ways it could.

[Barquiel]

DPSSOC wrote...

StodgyFrost98 wrote...

It stinks though that you can't preserve the base and give it to intelligent people who will you use it wisely against the battle with the Reapers.  For example, the Salarians(Mordin) and the Turians.

So rather than give the tech to a pro-human group (whatever your views Shepard is human) where there's a small chance they've got your well being in mind you'd give it to a species that not 3 decades ago was intent on making your species a historical footnote (*and then the Turians killed off some species with oddly placed fur).  I'm not saying it would doom the human race but I can see many ways it could.

The turians share their technology in ME1/ME2 (Thanix cannon, Normandy SR1) = everyone benefits (better chances against reapers)

TIM wants to ensure human dominance = only Cerberus/the alliance benefits if he finds something useful

[Barquiel]

a) Let's say some council scientists find something useful in the collector base...some hyper-advanced reaper cannons
We can equip 39 turian, 20 asari, 16 salarian, and 8 human dreadnoughts

Cerberus scientists find these reaper cannons. Do you think TIM would share? I don't think so.
We have 8 alliance dreadnoughts with superior weapons.

[DPSSOC]

Barquiel wrote...

The turians share their technology in ME1/ME2 (Thanix cannon, Normandy SR1) = everyone benefits (better chances against reapers)

TIM wants to ensure human dominance = only Cerberus/the alliance benefits if he finds something useful

The Turians never shared the Thanix with humanity (or at least we're never told they did if memory serves), Garrus had heard about it and took it for the Normandy.

As for the original Normandy you may recall that was rather quickly destroyed by the Collectors (Reaper pawns) and that was also a Cerberus initiative.  Furthermore we're never told who contributed what to the project.  We don't know who developed the Tantalus, could have been either or both, all we know is it was built by the two governments and based on a Turian design.  For all we know the basic form of the ship could have been the extent of the Turians' contribution.

Now you're probably right that sharing the tech with other species is the better way to go as it means we're all stronger to face the Reapers united, but you're still relying on the Turian willingness to share when they have no reason to care about your species and a history of animosity.

[Barquiel]

Shandepared wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Cerberus scientists find these reaper cannons. Do you think TIM would share? I don't think so.
We have 8 alliance dreadnoughts with superior weapons.

So your solution then is to blow up the base so that nobody gets the cannons.

I (in Shepard's shoes) wanted to give the base to the Council...no option.
Shepard can't even suggest it. I think TIM would agree if he really wants to stop the reapers. It's the best option.
metagaming...
- paragons will save the universe
- renegades will save the universe
I only destroyed the base because I didn't want Cerberus to have it.

Thanix cannons...
You're probably right, but I always wonder how Garrus (or Jacob, Tali) got the technology. He's no spectre, turian military, etc.

Modifié par Barquiel, 12 juin 2010 - 07:58 .

[Nightwriter]

Tempest wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Keeping the Collector base will reduce the technological gap, which will reduce causalities in the war. (or at least stands a better chance than your zerg rush)

I was really deciding on the whole base thing.  It was either have tech that can face the reapers OR have a base that is secretly, and thinking on its own, making husks and brainwashing scientists.

Well, I think people were entertaining some doubts as to whether the base itself could indoctrinate or not.

This is a base, a station much like Jump Zero, not a giant dead Reaper like before.

The question is whether or not that larva Reaper can indoctrinate from beyond the grave like the one before it. Its stage of development may have meant it couldn't generate the signal yet. However, if it can, we have something to worry about.

[Dean_the_Young]

Pacifien wrote...

Assuming an army of Geth, Krogans, and Rachni is enough to defeat the Reapers is just as much an assumption as believing the Collector base will lead to useful information against the Reapers as well.

How would information on the Reapers, including great amounts of their technology, not give anything useful, especially when the game itself tells you it will?

[TMA LIVE]

I destroyed the base because it meant Cerberus Reapers in the long run. Some say they'd still keep it, but give it to the Alliance, but then that'd mean Alliance Reapers. You might ask what's wrong with that? Well, let's look at it this way:

What are the Reapers? Well, most likely war ships with advanced AI that turned on their creators, and now destroy races on loop because it's in their nature. If this is true, do you want history to repeat itself?

Also look at it this way: The Reapers built the Citadel, and 90% of what every race is using is based off the tech the Reapers leaked to the Protheans, and what they leaked themselves. So every races is already using reaper tech as they planned it. How does a base change things that much under a year or 2?

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 12 juin 2010 - 08:41 .

[Dean_the_Young]

The same way that within a year of discovering the Martian Ruins, Humanity jumped to FTL travel and interstellar colonization, and how in less than a dozen years Humanity was able to fight evenly against the galaxy's greatest military power.

[Vaenier]

If you had a choice between saving the Galaxy from Cerberus or the Reapers, which would you pick? [Realistically based on which would be a lesser threat to have to go up against.]

[DuffyMJ]

Dean, in response to your page 11 non-response, my use of characterizing your logical bind as a catch 22 was quite apt. You have an insatiable need to be a big troll to anyone with an opinion contrary to your weird, extremist POV, yet you lack accurate troll bait needed to troll since your "I make no assumptions" understanding of the protean data cache recovery is in fact, as I've pointed out, ia good-faith assumption in the alliance PR...

[DuffyMJ]

Vaenier, there is no need to be black and white, the question you pose is as if destroying the base condones the reaper invasion when in fact it's simply taking both scum on. My grandparents loved ireland and despised the black and tans and british p.o.s.'s that made their lives miserable and threatened their way of life, But they wanted nothing to do with IRA terrorists and thugs just because they were an enemy of an enemy. Just because some losers sacrifice principle to make mutual struggles easier doesn't mean that all principled fights are doomed to failure. Hatian slaves stood alone against the French empire, David stood alone against Goliath, Rome stood against Hannibal...

[TMA LIVE]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The same way that within a year of discovering the Martian Ruins, Humanity jumped to FTL travel and interstellar colonization, and how in less than a dozen years Humanity was able to fight evenly against the galaxy's greatest military power.

Because it left for them to find. Same with every race, and every race before man. And the Reapers know what **** leaked from there base. You think they can't do the same thing? Also, it's Cerberus you're giving it to. Not the Council, or the Alliance. A group run by a guy who calls himself the Illusive Man, who spends most of his time sitting, drinking and smoking, while watching a star die, and commands his people to force change, so his vision of humanity will dominate.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 12 juin 2010 - 09:21 .

[TMA LIVE]

Vaenier wrote...

If you had a choice between saving the Galaxy from Cerberus or the Reapers, which would you pick? [Realistically based on which would be a lesser threat to have to go up against.]

A paragon ending says I can do both with things the Reapers had nothing to do with.

[Solenai]

Vaenier wrote...

If you had a choice between saving the Galaxy from Cerberus or the Reapers, which would you pick? [Realistically based on which would be a lesser threat to have to go up against.]

In the words of Zero from Code Geass,

      "What do you do when you are confronted with an overwhelming evil? Do you remain just even if it means being dominated by evil or do you commit evil to destroy the greater evil? In my case, I commit evil to destroy the greater evil."

Probably didn't get the quote entirely right but I felt it went with the subject. Cerberus is a neccessary evil to fight the reapers. People just don't get it. The reapers will wipe out the entire human race, along with the asari, turians, salarians, batarians, drell, hanar...you get my point, and anything else Cerberus might do with the base and its technology afterwards is a small price to pay for saving all life in the galaxy. Anything that has the chance to help you fight the reapers is a must-have. TIM wouldn't be so stupid as to actually try to make a reaper. That base was HUGE, the reaper-building machines were almost definitely not the only thing there. He probably wants to reverse engineer collector/reaper technology to try and find ways to upgrade the citadel fleets to defend against reaper attacks or research weapons that can pierce reaper shields.

[StodgyFrost98]

Barquiel wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

StodgyFrost98 wrote...

It stinks though that you can't preserve the base and give it to intelligent people who will you use it wisely against the battle with the Reapers.  For example, the Salarians(Mordin) and the Turians.

So rather than give the tech to a pro-human group (whatever your views Shepard is human) where there's a small chance they've got your well being in mind you'd give it to a species that not 3 decades ago was intent on making your species a historical footnote (*and then the Turians killed off some species with oddly placed fur).  I'm not saying it would doom the human race but I can see many ways it could.

The turians share their technology in ME1/ME2 (Thanix cannon, Normandy SR1) = everyone benefits (better chances against reapers)

TIM wants to ensure human dominance = only Cerberus/the alliance benefits if he finds something useful

Everyone one's going to need more than fancy weapons to take on the Reapers.  Your going to need a lot of armies to take on those Reapers with some fancy weaponry to take them on.

[TMA LIVE]

Shandepared wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...


Because it left for them to find.

Why'd they try so hard to stop anyone from finding it?

The reapers didn't. The left things for every new race to find, expand, and grow. They then come and kill them, or harvest them. Then go back in dark space, and repeat. They been doing this forever.

[mosor]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

If you had a choice between saving the Galaxy from Cerberus or the Reapers, which would you pick? [Realistically based on which would be a lesser threat to have to go up against.]

A paragon ending says I can do both with things the Reapers had nothing to do with.

You expect a paragon ending to turn out well. That's a good guess considering it's a video game and the writers probably don't have the guts to shaft players who act like Jesus. However, roleplaying it realistically, it would probably bite you on your butt.