3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It wouldn't matter regardless: you'd be falling into the appeal to authority fallacy then.

Actually, that's not quite true. If I claimed that whatever I said on military matters was automatically correct because I am in the military, I would be disgracing myself with an appeal to authority fallacy. You weren't appealing to that, but rather making a case that if I wasn't, I couldn't know what I was talking about.

Both are equally baseless arguments. I am neither automatically correct because I am in the army, nor are you incorrect because you are not. You would be incorrect because of other things, like your argument.

Look, I really don't care. The thread wanted to know why I destroyed the base, and I said and defended my reasons. Long term, it means bad ****. But chances are we'll beat them without it, because there's never just the easy way. If you think I'm wrong, whatever, but I doubt it. I expect Earth and 90% of human colonies will die in the paragon ending, leaving man kind in a bad place. But everyone's alive, and working together. Renegade, Human's are alright, and aliens in the 90% damage. That's my belief. I'm not trying to pick a fight. 

Hey, your belief is your belief. I just happen to put more value on saving more lives than you just admitted you do. I see no reason to condemn billions of men, women, and children to a preventable death in the name of equal suffering.

[Dean_the_Young]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
[P]laying the role of someone who does not respect and follow the law -- even to a minor degree -- WILL corrupt you.

You snipped the sentence in your quote to mangle it's meaning, of course it's going to be <_<-worthy...

If human psychology studies are a guide, that's actually a urban myth. Young people who drink underage, smoke, even do drugs do not have statistically significant higher rates for having problems with those issues as adults.

[DuffyMJ]

STG wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players..."

Man that makes me want to play Civ4 again.

lmao... Civ 5 is coming soon, though!!! (and Shogun 2 TW!!!) 

[Zaxares]

I'm a Paragon at heart, so as Commander Shepard said so eloquently to TIM, "I'm going to stop the Reapers, but I won't sacrifice the soul of our species to do it." I think the one undeniable truth we can all agree on is that Reaper technology ultimately changes you, and not for the better. There are some things which man was not meant to know, and are best left forgotten.



Besides, I very much doubt that the Reapers would have neglected to include some kind of final defensive failsafes in the event that the base was captured. I have a feeling that in ME3, the base WILL end up destroyed, one way or another.

[DuffyMJ]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
[P]laying the role of someone who does not respect and follow the law -- even to a minor degree -- WILL corrupt you.

You snipped the sentence in your quote to mangle it's meaning, of course it's going to be <_<-worthy...

If human psychology studies are a guide, that's actually a urban myth. Young people who drink underage, smoke, even do drugs do not have statistically significant higher rates for having problems with those issues as adults.

Criminal Justice (the social science that studies police agencies, actors) DOES show statistically significant causal relationships between high levels of procedural justice (procedural justice being agencies that have staff who are following the rules exactly as proscribed and not "doing whatever it takes to get the job done")  and low levels of crime and victimization in areas under their charge.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
[P]laying the role of someone who does not respect and follow the law -- even to a minor degree -- WILL corrupt you.

You snipped the sentence in your quote to mangle it's meaning, of course it's going to be <_<-worthy...

If human psychology studies are a guide, that's actually a urban myth. Young people who drink underage, smoke, even do drugs do not have statistically significant higher rates for having problems with those issues as adults.

Dean... damn!
In Aus: http://www.generatio...au/blog/?p=1153
The Findings:

• Teenagers who occassionally used cannabis were at higher risk of
  illegal drug use, and alcohol and tobacco dependence when they reached
  early adulthood, and
• “… even those students who only used cannabis occasionally in their
  teenage years faced a higher risk of drug problems in adulthood too.”

[Dean_the_Young]

Hm. My psychology professor is wrong then. Ah well.

[Dean_the_Young]

Zaxares wrote...

I'm a Paragon at heart, so as Commander Shepard said so eloquently to TIM, "I'm going to stop the Reapers, but I won't sacrifice the soul of our species to do it." I think the one undeniable truth we can all agree on is that Reaper technology ultimately changes you, and not for the better. There are some things which man was not meant to know, and are best left forgotten.

I think that this thread is proof that there is no such universal agreement.

How can there be things man was not 'meant' to know? What are these things, and how can we know what is forbidden without knowing that which is forbidden? Doesn't this claim imply that others may know these things? Who gives this ruling that things are not appropriate, and what is his/her/it's legitimacy?

We have examples of Reaper technology having no harmful effect on social character at all (the Relays, the Citadel), even positive results (EDI), and even that which protect and serve (thannix cannon). Reaper technology only harms you if it is used in a harmful way, not simply because it is Reaper technology.

Besides, I very much doubt that the Reapers would have neglected to include some kind of final defensive failsafes in the event that the base was captured. I have a feeling that in ME3, the base WILL end up destroyed, one way or another.

If they had the failsafes to destroy the base in case of being captured they would have destroyed the base instead of being captured.

Otherwise, any unpleasant leftovers would be things we will be faced with when the Reapers come, and so need to be overcome and mastered as soon as possible.

[StodgyFrost98]

Zaxares wrote...

I'm a Paragon at heart, so as Commander Shepard said so eloquently to TIM, "I'm going to stop the Reapers, but I won't sacrifice the soul of our species to do it." I think the one undeniable truth we can all agree on is that Reaper technology ultimately changes you, and not for the better. There are some things which man was not meant to know, and are best left forgotten.

Besides, I very much doubt that the Reapers would have neglected to include some kind of final defensive failsafes in the event that the base was captured. I have a feeling that in ME3, the base WILL end up destroyed, one way or another.

Your right the species won't be sacrificed but Cmdr Shepard might have to make a heroic sacrifice to take down the reapers.

[StodgyFrost98]

Sajuro wrote...

StodgyFrost98 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Dean, the Alliance alone blew up one reaper. We are now fighting hundreds. You think we can't board a ship, and blow them up on the inside, or make a virus to blow them all up? Or hack their ships? Do you really think they're that hard to kill, even though we know know about them, and can plan ahead?

I am betting that in ME3 you will have to find another beacon that will send out a signal to destroy all of the reapers.  Its logical since attacking the Reapers would be suicide.  I mean how many ships did it take to take down Sovereign.

or you go into intense political negotiations with them, ending up with Shepard letting them only harvest the batarians and the vorcha along with TIM and his cerberus personel  for indoctrinate slaves.

Very interesting I'll do that for my renegade playthrough and paragon if its possible.  Though the reapers are sentient machines and can't be reasoned with unless you have some sort of incentive to have them surrender.

[mcsupersport]

mcsupersport wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I wish Bioware finally grew a quad and make choices matter in the game play. If you dont have the base, billions of innocents will die by the hands of the reapers, the military will be crippled, planets will fall, but atleast the survivors are friends now. If you save the base, humanity leads the charge against the reapers, saving countless lives. They hate you for being so powerful now, but atleast they are alive enough to be able to hate. No good deed goes unpunished.

Yeah, and I wish that if you do destroy the base billions die but the Reapers are defeated in the end and everyone works for the better in the end and all races get along.  If you don't destroy the base you don't lose many poeple and easily destroy the Reapers but only to have the new Cerebrus Reapers start the cycle over again in 5 years ending all life as we know it in the galaxy.  You know have real punch to making choices matter.

I see you missed the whole point of the post, but also please remember exactly who you are giving the base too, and their track record when dealing with reapers and associated tech.  Please also remember TIM is an egomaniac and would have no problem imagining he could control a "small" reaper to "study" sometime in the future.  I didn't say the base would be used to make reapers to defeat the incoming Reapers, but five years after the defeat of the Reapers, TIM would create his own version of Reapers and restart the cycle because he thought he could control them or decided that the fate was good for humanity because he could imprint his mind as the dominate in the new hive reaper mind.

Personally if you could give the base to someone other than TIM then I may have considered it, but since that is not possible, it get Nuked everytime.

Besides what tech could you mine, when the Collectors were directly controlled by the Reapers and may have had little to no information stored on the ship/base.  So all that would be left was the dead embryo Reaper(indoctrination threat) lots of dead collectors, the pulping machines and maybe some goodies that you couldn't find elsewhere.  You may not be able to even make the machines work properly without the Reapers controling them, so you just have the basic building tech without any specific data to operate them.  All this would be stored on a base with limited access by humans, and in poor defensive capabilities to a counterattack by the Reapers which probably have a way to get there other than the Omega relay.  Basically you can't hold the base once the Reapers come back, you may not get much information, and you leave a valuable base to the Reapers open to retaking in full operation.  Not good odds in my book, so again it gets nuked.

[Nightwriter]

Zaxares wrote...

I'm a Paragon at heart, so as Commander Shepard said so eloquently to TIM, "I'm going to stop the Reapers, but I won't sacrifice the soul of our species to do it." I think the one undeniable truth we can all agree on is that Reaper technology ultimately changes you, and not for the better. There are some things which man was not meant to know, and are best left forgotten.

Besides, I very much doubt that the Reapers would have neglected to include some kind of final defensive failsafes in the event that the base was captured. I have a feeling that in ME3, the base WILL end up destroyed, one way or another.

Though I generally agree with you, I dislike this sentiment that we are not "meant" to know certain things.

It smacks of the kind of thinking one would expect in a regressed tribal culture who still worship the sky and stand in awe of god's unfathomable lightning, a power we could never hope to understand.

There is knowledge we might be better off not knowing about because we might misuse it, but that doesn't mean we're not meant to know it. It means it might be more prudent not to use it. In that sense though you're very right.

[GGRush]

Saving the base

Pros:

1) you get to continue working with TIM and his resources. The council is obviously an ass and Shepard cannot expect help from them. Maybe the alliance, but the beginning of ME2 shows Shepard cannot expect anything from them either. Only TIM gave you real support: ship, crew, dossiers, funding, etc. Shepard will break away from Cerberus eventually but at such a time having Cerberus help is invaluable--at least before Shepard knows for sure that council/alliance or whatever would help. Currently Shepard may have good relations with Urdnot clan, Rachni, and Anderson, but none of them can provide sufficient support alone.



2) You get to keep unexplored technology. Shepard only explored a small portion of the base. The rest of the base, such as the collector ship docking bay, control room, process of seeker swarm creation and etc, may have other powerful technology, whether Reaper origin, or Prothean origin. Debatable; if a collector ship gets 2HKOed by Thanix cannon, the difference in tech is not that great, but at such a time, every nichi could be the turn of the tide.



3) You may learn more about Reapers and their weaknesses. Debatable; using the reaper creation section requires horrible experiments and thousands or even millions of sacrifices.



Cons:

1) Extreme risk. Every time someone uses a reaper technology not meant to be used (citadel, relays) it backfires. Relics turn people into husks and reaper IFF fries the system. Also there is danger of indoctrination. Collector base is the same. No collector does not mean no danger in the base. There will be non-organic defense and clearly, husks.



2) TIM. He is not that bad but clearly he is a racist and would do anything to get the job done. Consider Jack's loyalty quest. We all know what will happen if Cerberus gets the base.



3) Omega-4. It still requires IFF, which is difficult to get and it backfires. Even if TIM get it he still needs someone like Joker. Salvaging the base is extremely difficult if not unreasonable.



4) Relying on reaper technology will only get you so far. Reapers know themselves. Using their own weapon against them is within their calculation. Using self-developed weapons and methods is how Protheans give humans the chance to break the cycle.



Neutral:

1) On one hand, collector base may be dangerous. On the other hand, collector base may be classified as a Prothean ruin. Either way, those ****s on the citadel won't be pleased.



For me, I think the return is not high enough for me to take such a risk. Besides the citadel races must come with their own technology or at least modifications against reapers.

[Yakko77]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
[P]laying the role of someone who does not respect and follow the law -- even to a minor degree -- WILL corrupt you.

You snipped the sentence in your quote to mangle it's meaning, of course it's going to be <_<-worthy...

If human psychology studies are a guide, that's actually a urban myth. Young people who drink underage, smoke, even do drugs do not have statistically significant higher rates for having problems with those issues as adults.

Dean... damn!
In Aus: http://www.generatio...au/blog/?p=1153
The Findings:

• Teenagers who occassionally used cannabis were at higher risk of
  illegal drug use, and alcohol and tobacco dependence when they reached
  early adulthood, and
• “… even those students who only used cannabis occasionally in their
  teenage years faced a higher risk of drug problems in adulthood too.”

[*]Is this the whole "gateway drug" argument?
[*]Cigarettes, alcohol and Mom and Dad's perscription drugs are the real "gateway drug".  I  never met anyone who started with pot..... or Red Sand.
[*]
[*]

[DarkSeraphym]

GGRush wrote...

Saving the base
Pros:
1) you get to continue working with TIM and his resources. The council is obviously an ass and Shepard cannot expect help from them. Maybe the alliance, but the beginning of ME2 shows Shepard cannot expect anything from them either. Only TIM gave you real support: ship, crew, dossiers, funding, etc. Shepard will break away from Cerberus eventually but at such a time having Cerberus help is invaluable--at least before Shepard knows for sure that council/alliance or whatever would help. Currently Shepard may have good relations with Urdnot clan, Rachni, and Anderson, but none of them can provide sufficient support alone.

2) You get to keep unexplored technology. Shepard only explored a small portion of the base. The rest of the base, such as the collector ship docking bay, control room, process of seeker swarm creation and etc, may have other powerful technology, whether Reaper origin, or Prothean origin. Debatable; if a collector ship gets 2HKOed by Thanix cannon, the difference in tech is not that great, but at such a time, every nichi could be the turn of the tide.

3) You may learn more about Reapers and their weaknesses. Debatable; using the reaper creation section requires horrible experiments and thousands or even millions of sacrifices.

Cons:
1) Extreme risk. Every time someone uses a reaper technology not meant to be used (citadel, relays) it backfires. Relics turn people into husks and reaper IFF fries the system. Also there is danger of indoctrination. Collector base is the same. No collector does not mean no danger in the base. There will be non-organic defense and clearly, husks.

2) TIM. He is not that bad but clearly he is a racist and would do anything to get the job done. Consider Jack's loyalty quest. We all know what will happen if Cerberus gets the base.

3) Omega-4. It still requires IFF, which is difficult to get and it backfires. Even if TIM get it he still needs someone like Joker. Salvaging the base is extremely difficult if not unreasonable.

4) Relying on reaper technology will only get you so far. Reapers know themselves. Using their own weapon against them is within their calculation. Using self-developed weapons and methods is how Protheans give humans the chance to break the cycle.

Neutral:
1) On one hand, collector base may be dangerous. On the other hand, collector base may be classified as a Prothean ruin. Either way, those ****s on the citadel won't be pleased.

For me, I think the return is not high enough for me to take such a risk. Besides the citadel races must come with their own technology or at least modifications against reapers.

I thought I might take a shot at responding to some of your comments.

You listed most of the pros already. However, I took notice that you put debatable on nearly all of your pros for saving the base while not putting a single debatable on any of your cons so I thought I might just add some of my own.

Cons: (I'm just going to use your list for the sake of the argument) 

1. Debatable. Why would the Collectors have put defenses on the base if they never expected anyone to get that far? As far as we can tell, most of their defenses were placed on the area around the base itself. This is why no ship has ever survived the Omega-4 Relay since that Relay is the primary defense. In the event a ship can get through the Relay, the Collectors placed those security drones and then had it's "supership" as a last line of defense. I get a sense from actually setting foot on the base that you have caught the Collectors completely off guard. If they had any defense networks other than the Husks, they wouldn't have just sent what seems like as many Collectors as they could muster to stop you. Think about it logically. If you had a fort on a hill and had your entire army/artillery at the base of the hill to the point that you expected absolutely no one to even survive an onslaught attempting to come up the hill to infiltrate your fort, would you put a lot of time/resources into fortifying your fort even further from the inside?

2. Well, actually I won't touch #2. You sounded like you were addressing two sides of an argument there, so there is no sense in my posting anything here. We know that TIM has ulterior motives, which you already addressed.

3. Debatable. Obviously there is something that the Illusive Man has that we aren't aware of. If Shepard dies along with the rest of the crew, you visibly see a ton of Cerberus Ships coming out of the Relay to swarm on the Collector Base. It's pretty apparent from this that the Illusive Man somehow has the equipment necessary to get through the Omega-4 Relay into the base with this ending. Granted, this ending is not canon but it at least shows he has resources to do it somewhere.

4. Debatable. Keep in mind that as far as we can tell, the Reapers only came up with a plan for sentient organic life within certain limits. The Mass Relays were effectively the limit to their plan. To assume that that they calculated that we would use their own weapons against them would mean we are to assume that Sovereign was indeed supposed to fail after all (which is how we got our hands on the weaponry used for the Thanix Cannons in the first place). This plan also becomes even less apparent when the Thanix Cannon, Reaper technology, completely wipes out the Collector Ship with just 2 hits. From Redemption, we know that the Collectors are trading technology not seen anywhere else in the universe (likely because they are getting it directly from the Reapers anyways), yet the ship is taken down rather ridiculously easily, so the Collectors were not at all prepared for this weapon. I think you might be giving the Reapers a little too much credit. If I believe I am an infallible being with immense power that will easily crush you no matter what, why would I assume you would be capable of foiling my plans twice and then using weapons gaining from wrecking my plans against me?

Since I've added some comments about the Cons you have listed, I will attempt to address your counterarguments to your pros if you do not mind.

2. It is true that the Reaper technology in the Thanix Cannon obviously trumped the technology used in the defenses of that Collector Ship. However, as I mentioned in my argument with #4, the Reapers do not seem to have had any inclination that someone would be capable of standing up to them. This is why they have such an obsession with humanity in the first place. It is highly probably that the defenses on that ship were not intended to withstand Reaper-based weaponry simply because they never expected it to fall into the hands of organic life. Simply because we were able to easily destroy a single ship is not a logical approach to saying that their technology must not be that superior to the technology Shepard already has. If the Collectors never expected to face that kind of weaponry, why would they prepare for it beforehand? It is obviously that most conventional weapons do not work on the Collector Ship as is. It took Reaper-based weaponry to destroy it. Think about it logically, do you normally walk around in body armor every day if you do not expect to get shot?

3. You dont have to create a Reaper to learn about them. There could be blueprints, instructions, research, any kind of data really that describes the processes behind their creation and even what makes them tick. Such intelligence is completely invaluable to an opponent.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 14 juin 2010 - 06:51 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Yakko77 wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...
[P]laying the role of someone who does not respect and follow the law -- even to a minor degree -- WILL corrupt you.

You snipped the sentence in your quote to mangle it's meaning, of course it's going to be <_<-worthy...

If human psychology studies are a guide, that's actually a urban myth. Young people who drink underage, smoke, even do drugs do not have statistically significant higher rates for having problems with those issues as adults.

Dean... damn!
In Aus: http://www.generatio...au/blog/?p=1153
The Findings:

• Teenagers who occassionally used cannabis were at higher risk of
  illegal drug use, and alcohol and tobacco dependence when they reached
  early adulthood, and
• “… even those students who only used cannabis occasionally in their
  teenage years faced a higher risk of drug problems in adulthood too.”

[*]Is this the whole "gateway drug" argument?
[*]Cigarettes, alcohol and Mom and Dad's perscription drugs are the real "gateway drug".  I  never met anyone who started with pot..... or Red Sand.
[*]

Ah yes, red sand! With insufficient data we have dismissed that claim for or against.
Pot, heavy risk and no priiiize.
Prescription Drugs... ah yes... we believe batarians are to blame.
cigarettes and alcohol - we believe the hanar are to blame....

[Tempest]

Dean_the_Young wrote...


We have examples of Reaper technology having no harmful effect on social character at all (the Relays, the Citadel), even positive results (EDI), and even that which protect and serve (thannix cannon). Reaper technology only harms you if it is used in a harmful way, not simply because it is Reaper technology.

Yes and no with the reaper technology.  There is no "initial" effect when using the tech.  What the tech was there for was to allow the reapers to bypass their defenses like they did thousands of times by now and harvest organics again. (Why is still inconclusive)  If the Protheans never discovered the information about the keepers, the Reapers would have destroyed the galaxy again during ME1.  So no initial harm, BUT it was a sort of false sense of security.  As for EDI, well it could be argued that she never really noticed a 10+thousand year old computer virus.  Yeah, a 10 thousand year old computer virus was still more advanced than EDI, that says ALOT.

[Nightwriter]

DuffyMJ wrote...

That's not my point at all, my point is that IN REAL LIFE (i.e. NOT "acting") people in positions of authority who partake in corrupt/sketchy opportunities to save time/effort will not achieve outcomes as effectively as those who do what is lawful and expected of them.  When I was an unarmed inspector for the department of health, we occasionally had to deal with jackasses who wouldn't let us in to inspect saying "what are you going to do? you don't carry." We would then have to contact law enforcement, wait around in some sketchy area in the middle of Februrary, etc... So to make life easier, one inspector at my agency started carrying his own gun on him so he could play cop on his inspections and get things done quicker. He ended up getting jumped from behind on an inspection and shot in the leg by his own gun. On top of that, since my agency was partly funded by Federal grants, he was charged for a Federal felony for possessing an unlicensed weapon on Federal property (his government vehicle...) Woo-hoo, go renegades! 

:innocent:

Actually this story completely distracted me from the debate topic. Jeez, did your friend end up all right?

[Ieldra]

Zaxares wrote...
There are some things which man was not meant to know, and are best left forgotten.

Ideological bullsh*t.

Things Man Was Not Meant To Know aren't. Reaper technology: things we'd better be damn careful with. *Perhaps* it might be advisable to only take very small samples and leave the bigger things alone until we know more. If we can afford to. Can we afford it?

[Nightwriter]

Vaenier wrote...

I wish Bioware finally grew a quad and make choices matter in the game play. If you dont have the base, billions of innocents will die by the hands of the reapers, the military will be crippled, planets will fall, but atleast the survivors are friends now. If you save the base, humanity leads the charge against the reapers, saving countless lives. They hate you for being so powerful now, but atleast they are alive enough to be able to hate. No good deed goes unpunished.

You just wanted to say you’d like your judgment to be rewarded and our judgment to be punished?

We already knew you wanted that.

[Dean_the_Young]

Tempest wrote...


Yes and no with the reaper technology.  There is no "initial" effect when using the tech.  What the tech was there for was to allow the reapers to bypass their defenses like they did thousands of times by now and harvest organics again. (Why is still inconclusive)  If the Protheans never discovered the information about the keepers, the Reapers would have destroyed the galaxy again during ME1.  So no initial harm, BUT it was a sort of false sense of security.  As for EDI, well it could be argued that she never really noticed a 10+thousand year old computer virus.  Yeah, a 10 thousand year old computer virus was still more advanced than EDI, that says ALOT.

A false sense of security is still hardly a social or material ill. And EDI did notice the virus: more than that, the virus had no effect on EDI at all, and she was able to immediately purge it when she was actually connected to the ship systems.

[Epic777]

Nightwriter wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I wish Bioware finally grew a quad and make choices matter in the game play. If you dont have the base, billions of innocents will die by the hands of the reapers, the military will be crippled, planets will fall, but atleast the survivors are friends now. If you save the base, humanity leads the charge against the reapers, saving countless lives. They hate you for being so powerful now, but atleast they are alive enough to be able to hate. No good deed goes unpunished.

You just wanted to say you’d like your judgment to be rewarded and our judgment to be punished?

We already knew you wanted that.

Bascially what happened at the end of me1?

Modifié par Epic777, 14 juin 2010 - 06:55 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Nightwriter wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

I wish Bioware finally grew a quad and make choices matter in the game play. If you dont have the base, billions of innocents will die by the hands of the reapers, the military will be crippled, planets will fall, but atleast the survivors are friends now. If you save the base, humanity leads the charge against the reapers, saving countless lives. They hate you for being so powerful now, but atleast they are alive enough to be able to hate. No good deed goes unpunished.

You just wanted to say you’d like your judgment to be rewarded and our judgment to be punished?

We already knew you wanted that.

Don't go for cheap shots when you know you're being selective, Nightwriter. It goes both ways: when a clearly choreographed choice like the Collector Base appears, there should be a noticable difference. But if the windfall falls with a Paragon decision (save the Rachni), that too should matter.

[Nightwriter]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

I think it is time to put this topic to rest. All I can read is people fortifying their opinion and sticking to them, no matter the arguments.

Shush. I'm having fun.