3478 réponses à ce sujet

[nremies1]

I blew it up even with a Renegade character. If the choice was destroying it or handing it over to the Council or the Alliance I might have actually pondered the decision for a while, but TIM is the only one who stands to gain from it. I'm not handing that tech over to a wannabe Stalin.

[ThisIsMadness91]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

I fail to see the point in doing it. Preserving the base seemed convientient and perhaps increased the chances of getting collector weapons and tech in ME3. I don't get why the majority of the community destroy it. The last person I asked just said it was "to get a more satifying explosion" but it seems like more than that.

I destroyed it because the only other option was handing it over to Cerberus, and I do not trust them at all. i could very well be wrong, but to me it looked like the whole point of the base's existence was to create Reapers.

STG wrote...

As Executor Pallin once said: "When cure is worse than the disease, whats the point?"

Nice quote! I don't think I've ever heard him say it before.

Rzepik2 wrote...

Because they're all goody-goody paragons. I'm pretty sure that's the most important reason. Some blue numbers can be a stronger impulse than a rational analyze.

Why is it I see more Paragon-bashing Renegades than Renegade-bashing Paragons? If this were the case for me, I wouldn't have gotten any Renegade points except the arbitrary ones that come with completing a mission.

[badkenbad]

There is NO WAY TIM could control the Reaper tech. No way. No matter how much money he threw at it. Now, how good would it be for probably the single most powerful and wealthy individual in the galaxy to be indoctrinated by a Reaper?

Think about that one for a moment.

Saren thought he could avoid becoming indoctrinated. In the books, he was very careful to stay away from Sovereign as much as he could. In the end, though, well, we all know what happened there.

A Reaper-controlled Illusive Man would be A Very Bad Thing.

Modifié par badkenbad, 02 juin 2010 - 12:40 .

[DaBigDragon]

crimzontearz wrote...

DaBigDragon wrote...

Not destroying the Collector Base would be like not stopping the **** Concentration Camps in World War II because we could "learn from" the methods and technologies used there.

uhmmmmm.....you do realize that it  did happen right? The studies about Sleep Cycles were based upon torture techniques used by the ****s through sleep deprivation

hell Bayer was the company that supplied the camps with the gas used in the executiuons and some of their pharmaceutical wonders would have never been possible without their live experiments......


I am not justifying I am just saying it was done.....


although with your analogy giving the base to TIM would be like giving  immense tech found in ****'s camps to today's north Korea or some such
uhm............

That's a better way of saying it. I'd rather destroy the base then give it to the Illusive Man.

[ChanceRandom]

I dont trust TIM. I may like him, I may think he would make for a great drinking buddy, but in the end they did a great job of insinuating his underlying miniacle need for power. If he had said he was going to do it for the betterment of all the council races, I probably would have let it go to Cerberus, but everytime I talked to him, he couldnt hide the fact that it was purely for the advancement of Cerberus, not the human race as a whole. His last speach to Sheppard was the clincher for me. From that I could easily see him using it to usurp control over the Alliance, then the Council, all "for the betterment of Mankind." In reality it would afford him great power for one person, Himself. That and just for kicks I finished the game with a save before the last battle just to see what would happen with a Paragon/save the base ending. The look on his face was just to smug for me.

Modifié par ChanceRandom, 02 juin 2010 - 01:51 .

[Vaenier]

People destroy it out of an irrational fear of the unknown, and the fact that Bioware has railroaded the player with the only alternative of giving it to terrorists instead of the council, alliance, keep it, etc...



Yay for epic fail plot writing.

[crimzontearz]

Vaenier wrote...

People destroy it out of an irrational fear of the unknown, and the fact that Bioware has railroaded the player with the only alternative of giving it to terrorists instead of the council, alliance, keep it, etc...

Yay for epic fail plot writing.

oh you mean like shepard not Marching straight to the alliance and handing over miranda and jacob to them for interrogation using then his Spectre status to recruit people and complete the mission anyway? 

[Vaenier]

crimzontearz wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

People destroy it out of an irrational fear of the unknown, and the fact that Bioware has railroaded the player with the only alternative of giving it to terrorists instead of the council, alliance, keep it, etc...

Yay for epic fail plot writing.

oh you mean like shepard not Marching straight to the alliance and handing over miranda and jacob to them for interrogation using then his Spectre status to recruit people and complete the mission anyway? 

Exactly. When does the real ME2 plot come out to replace the joke placeholder they gave us?

[crimzontearz]

Vaenier wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

People destroy it out of an irrational fear of the unknown, and the fact that Bioware has railroaded the player with the only alternative of giving it to terrorists instead of the council, alliance, keep it, etc...

Yay for epic fail plot writing.

oh you mean like shepard not Marching straight to the alliance and handing over miranda and jacob to them for interrogation using then his Spectre status to recruit people and complete the mission anyway? 

Exactly. When does the real ME2 plot come out to replace the joke placeholder they gave us?

eh

nothing will ever sting me as much as what they did to Liara tho......

[KalosCast]

crimzontearz wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

People destroy it out of an irrational fear of the unknown, and the fact that Bioware has railroaded the player with the only alternative of giving it to terrorists instead of the council, alliance, keep it, etc...

Yay for epic fail plot writing.

oh you mean like shepard not Marching straight to the alliance and handing over miranda and jacob to them for interrogation using then his Spectre status to recruit people and complete the mission anyway? 

And then you lose most of your crew (many of which were hand-picked by TIM, remember), TIMs vast intel network (which is the only reason you knew of where a lot of the missions were), and possibly your ship (the Cerberus loyals could just fly it off). It's one thing to be principled, it's another thing to be lawful stupid.

[KalosCast]

crimzontearz wrote...

eh

nothing will ever sting me as much as what they did to Liara tho......

If you bothered to pay attention to the game you're playing, you'd find out why she's acting like that (hint: it's a mix of personal trauma and putting up a false icy demeanor).

[crimzontearz]

KalosCast wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

eh

nothing will ever sting me as much as what they did to Liara tho......

If you bothered to pay attention to the game you're playing, you'd find out why she's acting like that (hint: it's a mix of personal trauma and putting up a false icy demeanor).

I actually played the game more than 10 times, yes I saw ALL dialogie options for the whole Liara encounter and guess what it is STILL bull**** because in that cathartic moment in which Shepard forgives her all she has to say is "oh....I thought you's hate me....well....is there anything else I can help you with?"

Also still after that she STILL picks chasing the shadow broker and avenging Feron (both things she could have very well have done from within the normandy in spite of her statements) over coming with you in a mission that could very well (given the odds are ALL against you) be your very last. Priority issue much?


for that matter avter listening to to hidden audio files that were the "hooks" for the shadow broker DLC after you KILL the shadow broker for Liara she STILL chooses not to come with you in order to take the shadow broker's place. That is as good to me as a note telling me the relationship is over
so yeah after having examined it all at length....it is still a load of crap

[crimzontearz]

KalosCast wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

People destroy it out of an irrational fear of the unknown, and the fact that Bioware has railroaded the player with the only alternative of giving it to terrorists instead of the council, alliance, keep it, etc...

Yay for epic fail plot writing.

oh you mean like shepard not Marching straight to the alliance and handing over miranda and jacob to them for interrogation using then his Spectre status to recruit people and complete the mission anyway? 

And then you lose most of your crew (many of which were hand-picked by TIM, remember), TIMs vast intel network (which is the only reason you knew of where a lot of the missions were), and possibly your ship (the Cerberus loyals could just fly it off). It's one thing to be principled, it's another thing to be lawful stupid.

sure because Anderson is stupid enough not to lock the normandy to prevent people flying off with it......and stupid enough to undermine Shepard when he knows he is right. yes, of course

as for the lack of intely preventing Shepard to complete the mission I seriously doubt that putting some hand picked brilliant minds form the alliance would not have solved the problem, Shepard, nearly alone, took down Saren and Sovereign...no Cerberus needed

[KalosCast]

crimzontearz wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

eh

nothing will ever sting me as much as what they did to Liara tho......

If you bothered to pay attention to the game you're playing, you'd find out why she's acting like that (hint: it's a mix of personal trauma and putting up a false icy demeanor).

I actually played the game more than 10 times, yes I saw ALL dialogie options for the whole Liara encounter and guess what it is STILL bull**** because in that cathartic moment in which Shepard forgives her all she has to say is "oh....I thought you's hate me....well....is there anything else I can help you with?"

Also still after that she STILL picks chasing the shadow broker and avenging Feron (both things she could have very well have done from within the normandy in spite of her statements) over coming with you in a mission that could very well (given the odds are ALL against you) be your very last. Priority issue much?


for that matter avter listening to to hidden audio files that were the "hooks" for the shadow broker DLC after you KILL the shadow broker for Liara she STILL chooses not to come with you in order to take the shadow broker's place. That is as good to me as a note telling me the relationship is over
so yeah after having examined it all at length....it is still a load of crap

Only because you're an idiot, dawg.

The lack of total dialog options is a pain, but once again given the dangerous position she's in in an already dangerous line of work, she can't afford to reveal too much to you. All of your crewmates only get these brief cameos which kind of sucks but hey we are in the middle act of a trilogy. Besides, the game is showing that in thsoe intervening two years, except for a couple members, the rest of your squad and crew moved on without you. You died, they grieved, and came to terms with that. Welcome to the real(istic) world.

She definitlely couldn't have done that from the Normandy. Since she had no idea what you all are flying into, she could easily have numerous communication and data-finding delays and complications, which would have made her work much slower and possibly allowed the Shadow Broker to slip the net altogether. Not to mention, I doubt there's a lot of spare computing power around for Liara to intercept and decode errant bits of data and other things unrelated to the mission on a pseudo-military vessel. Also, your constant calls for her to come out and murder half the Terminus systems with her would further slow down her work.

Cut content doesn't count because it's cut. It's not part of the game. It was removed for a reason and is therefore not attributable to her character.

[Vaenier]

Why play lawful stupid or evil stupid? why not play paragade smart? Let Shep actually talk to the council instead of talking to a freaking wall. let Shep use TIM without working for him. Let the player actually make choices instead of just the illusion of choice.

[KalosCast]

crimzontearz wrote...
sure because Anderson is stupid enough not to lock the normandy to prevent people flying off with it......and stupid enough to undermine Shepard when he knows he is right. yes, of course

as for the lack of intely preventing Shepard to complete the mission I seriously doubt that putting some hand picked brilliant minds form the alliance would not have solved the problem, Shepard, nearly alone, took down Saren and Sovereign...no Cerberus needed

Because he had the Council's huge amount of intel and resources at his disposal. If you bothered to pay attention to the game you were playing, you woudl have realized that the Alliance brass and the Council have spent the last two years picking apart everything you did, making you look like a raving lunatic, and then convincing themselves of their own deception.

Vaenier wrote...

Why play lawful stupid or evil stupid?
why not play paragade smart? Let Shep actually talk to the council
instead of talking to a freaking wall. let Shep use TIM without working
for him. Let the player actually make choices instead of just the
illusion of choice.

That's exactly the mentality you can
come across with using the conversation wheel. It's called roleplaying,
dawg. You have ample oppurtunties to state that "I'm not doing this for
Cerberus, they're just funding me" or alternatively to come across as a
total Cerberus lapdog. If you're asking why they didn't make three
different games for how you want to play it, that answer should be
pretty obvious.

Modifié par KalosCast, 02 juin 2010 - 02:20 .

[Vaenier]

KalosCast wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
sure because Anderson is stupid enough not to lock the normandy to prevent people flying off with it......and stupid enough to undermine Shepard when he knows he is right. yes, of course

as for the lack of intely preventing Shepard to complete the mission I seriously doubt that putting some hand picked brilliant minds form the alliance would not have solved the problem, Shepard, nearly alone, took down Saren and Sovereign...no Cerberus needed

Because he had the Council's huge amount of intel and resources at his disposal. If you bothered to pay attention to the game you were playing, you woudl have realized that the Alliance brass and the Council have spent the last two years picking apart everything you did, making you look like a raving lunatic, and then convincing themselves of their own deception.

Vaenier wrote...

Why play lawful stupid or evil stupid?
why not play paragade smart? Let Shep actually talk to the council
instead of talking to a freaking wall. let Shep use TIM without working
for him. Let the player actually make choices instead of just the
illusion of choice.

That's exactly the mentality you can
come across with using the conversation wheel. It's called roleplaying,
dawg. You have ample oppurtunties to state that "I'm not doing this for
Cerberus, they're just funding me" or alternatively to come across as a
total Cerberus lapdog. If you're asking why they didn't make three
different games for how you want to play it, that answer should be
pretty obvious.

That is just an illusion. Choice requires different outcomes. Picking choice A or choice B, both lead to the exact same outcome through the exact same means. there was no choice to begin with, just a trick.

[KalosCast]

Vaenier wrote...
That is just an illusion. Choice requires different outcomes. Picking choice A or choice B, both lead to the exact same outcome through the exact same means. there was no choice to begin with, just a trick.

If this is a real problem for you, I'd suggest never playing video games. They're clearly not your kind of entertainment.

[crimzontearz]

KalosCast wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

eh

nothing will ever sting me as much as what they did to Liara tho......

If you bothered to pay attention to the game you're playing, you'd find out why she's acting like that (hint: it's a mix of personal trauma and putting up a false icy demeanor).

I actually played the game more than 10 times, yes I saw ALL dialogie options for the whole Liara encounter and guess what it is STILL bull**** because in that cathartic moment in which Shepard forgives her all she has to say is "oh....I thought you's hate me....well....is there anything else I can help you with?"

Also still after that she STILL picks chasing the shadow broker and avenging Feron (both things she could have very well have done from within the normandy in spite of her statements) over coming with you in a mission that could very well (given the odds are ALL against you) be your very last. Priority issue much?


for that matter avter listening to to hidden audio files that were the "hooks" for the shadow broker DLC after you KILL the shadow broker for Liara she STILL chooses not to come with you in order to take the shadow broker's place. That is as good to me as a note telling me the relationship is over
so yeah after having examined it all at length....it is still a load of crap

Only because you're an idiot, dawg.

The lack of total dialog options is a pain, but once again given the dangerous position she's in in an already dangerous line of work, she can't afford to reveal too much to you. All of your crewmates only get these brief cameos which kind of sucks but hey we are in the middle act of a trilogy. Besides, the game is showing that in thsoe intervening two years, except for a couple members, the rest of your squad and crew moved on without you. You died, they grieved, and came to terms with that. Welcome to the real(istic) world.

She definitlely couldn't have done that from the Normandy. Since she had no idea what you all are flying into, she could easily have numerous communication and data-finding delays and complications, which would have made her work much slower and possibly allowed the Shadow Broker to slip the net altogether. Not to mention, I doubt there's a lot of spare computing power around for Liara to intercept and decode errant bits of data and other things unrelated to the mission on a pseudo-military vessel. Also, your constant calls for her to come out and murder half the Terminus systems with her would further slow down her work.

Cut content doesn't count because it's cut. It's not part of the game. It was removed for a reason and is therefore not attributable to her character.

so your defense to her is that she is in danger, that we are in the middle of a trilogy, that the previous crew moved on and that being on the normandy  would hinder her? Seriously???

-Danger: Flying around in a nigh undetectable cutting edge reaper-tech ship, protected by superbadass boyfriend and the entire crew makes her position more dangerous? as in more dangerous than being on Ilium where she was already as good as dead if it had not been for Shepard who allowed her to discover her trusted secretary was an agent of the Shadow Broker. More dangerous than actually blabbing away about wanting to go after the Shadow broker and broadcasting her plans in a room that she herself is afraid she is being recorded in? 

Middle of the Trilogy, Grieving, Moving on: ok...Tali did not move on...neither did Garrus and if they did they are more than glad to tag along upon realizing Shepard is alive. More importantly even if this was not so Liara of all people KNOWS Shepard is being resurrected, she KNOWS he is coming back. And even tho she is feeling guilty about it Shepard still forgives her and there is ZERO change in her afterward....awesome. So she is two whole steps behind the rest of the group right along Kaiden and Ash.....no wait, Ash and Kaiden AKNOWLEDGE that they want to continue the relationship, yes, no kiss for their reuining scene but at least they flat out tell you "shepard I still want you".

Being on the Normandy being a hinder: Are you KIDDING? having an AI that is reaper tech powered to help her would not be useful? the SR2 is a several hundred billion credits frigate with enough scientific equipment to manufacture  weapon, armor, upgrades and genetic engineering and they do not have the resources for data analisys and recon? WTH??? Shepard has time to track down abandoned facilities, lost fathers/sisters/daughters/students but not to aid Liara?  Come on this is just ridiculous

[crimzontearz]

KalosCast wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
sure because Anderson is stupid enough not to lock the normandy to prevent people flying off with it......and stupid enough to undermine Shepard when he knows he is right. yes, of course

as for the lack of intely preventing Shepard to complete the mission I seriously doubt that putting some hand picked brilliant minds form the alliance would not have solved the problem, Shepard, nearly alone, took down Saren and Sovereign...no Cerberus needed

Because he had the Council's huge amount of intel and resources at his disposal. If you bothered to pay attention to the game you were playing, you woudl have realized that the Alliance brass and the Council have spent the last two years picking apart everything you did, making you look like a raving lunatic, and then convincing themselves of their own deception.

Vaenier wrote...

Why play lawful stupid or evil stupid?
why not play paragade smart? Let Shep actually talk to the council
instead of talking to a freaking wall. let Shep use TIM without working
for him. Let the player actually make choices instead of just the
illusion of choice.

That's exactly the mentality you can
come across with using the conversation wheel. It's called roleplaying,
dawg. You have ample oppurtunties to state that "I'm not doing this for
Cerberus, they're just funding me" or alternatively to come across as a
total Cerberus lapdog. If you're asking why they didn't make three
different games for how you want to play it, that answer should be
pretty obvious.

of course because if you were not working for Cerberus  anderson would never back you up openly and use his influence to allow you to conduct your own investigation backed by the council since..you know...he KNOWS the truth......

[Flamin Jesus]

Vaenier wrote...

That is just an illusion. Choice requires different outcomes. Picking choice A or choice B, both lead to the exact same outcome through the exact same means. there was no choice to begin with, just a trick.

Exactly, I still find it quite humorous that people fall for that simple trick "Oooooh, we have THREE ways to go through a conversation with the EXACT same outcome... CHOICES!"

There are only four choices that had ANY actual impact on the gameworld I can remember right now:

Killing the council: The fight against Saren is slightly easier (No, the slightly different conversations in ME3 don't count, they have absolutely NO actual effect on the gameworld)

Electrocuting that Batarian in the Garrus recruitment mission: The battle is slightly easier.

Shooting the gas pipe in the Grunt recruitment mission: The battle is slightly easier.

Not saving the workers in Zaeeds mission: The mission is slightly easier, you don't need a good paragon/renegade score to get him loyal, you lose one opportunity for a heavy weapons ammo upgrade.

Ts, funny that those are all renegade choices, and they all get you an advantage, and still people complain that renegade choices are never "good"....

[Armatyr]

i want proof tim is bad and what he does benefits no one then ill listen to u all!

[Beholderess]

Because I don't trust Cerberus with it. Their methods of "research" will sertainly include turning people into goo.

If it was possible to give the base to a less shady organisation, I would have kept it. But if my choices are give it to Cerberus or blow it up - then let it blow.

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Anyone who has a pair of eyes like TIM's cannot be trusted.

[noobzor99]

1- To stick it to TIM

2- I love massive explosions