3478 réponses à ce sujet

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

To
make this comparison fitting:

If I were asked to give a facility
for making nuclear bombs to a fanatic and ruthless survivalist group
allied with me in a total war for our very survival against a
technologically superior enemy whose defenses I was hitherto unable to
crack without stupidity on their side, would I do it?

Yes, I'd
rather keep that facility for myself or give it to more dependable
allies, but if the only alternative is not to have it at all, then, yes,
I'd give it to them and deal with the consequences after our survival
is assured. At this point, with the knowledge I have at that point, it's
the only strategically viable option. Anything else means risking
extinction for the sake of honor. Death before dishonor is a decision
you have the right to make for yourself, but not for your whole group,
species etc.. I'd say you have a moral obligation to keep the facility
intact.

Um, no. If we were to follow the comparison
faithfully, the facility you're capturing would not be making nuclear
bombs, because in the game, the Collector Base was making a Reaper and
we pretty much unanimously agreed that Cerberus should not be using the
captured tech to make a Reaper. 

But to continue the nuclear
weapon analogy, let's say the United States (Reapers) have nukes and the
Taliban (Cerberus) managed to capture an Iraqi Army base (Protheans)
that the U.S. stockpiled some advanced U.S. (Reaper) weapons. Let's say
we (as the Taliban) captured this U.S. base and researched some of its
technology. 

Wow, FANTASTIC. Now, two years later, AT BEST,
Cerberus becomes North Korea/Iran (with some nukes). The U.S. will just
as easily steam roll North Korea as they did Iraq (the Protheans) or
Cerberus. Jumping back to the Mass Effect Universe, saving the Collector
Base is hardly a strategically war-changing decision - sure, the
Alliance/Council Races may start producing bigger and better Thanix-type
weapons, start retrofitting ships with better/bigger mass effect
drives, or whatever, but the truth is, the Reapers have had tens of
thousands of years to perfect this technology. Therefore, this argument
of harvesting Reaper technology and using it against them is absurd -
there is no way we can master this technology within Shepherd's lifetime
to the point where it would be competitive with the Reapers.

It's
like going back in time and giving World War II Germany the F-22 Raptor
in 1939. The technology in the Raptor might help Hitler defeat Stalin
and Churchill in 1939, but any technological advances derived from the
Raptor by the Germans would be useless against the present-day United
States Air Force.

And that is why keeping the Collector Base is necessarily
the "strategically" right thing to do. On a tactical level -
as in, in future individual engagements - having all your ships armed
with Thanix 2.0s is great. But in the big picture, trying to beat the
Reapers with their own toys should NOT be at the core of any war
strategy.

BTW, I blew up that base. Realistically, if we were to use logic sending a small team of commandos to blow up an enemy base (the original intent) is as risky as commando missions get. To change the mission goal/parameters from destruction of an enemy base to capture midway through the mission is completely illogical, throwing gas into an already volatile mission.

The Illusive Man knows that the commando team can't hold the base themselves - fine, so he advocates a timed radiation pulse that wipes out organic life after the infiltration team escapes. However, does TIM know that there are not other collector bases? Other Collector cruisers out on missions? This is extremely relevant info that was not mentioned in the game at all - for all we know, there could be other Collector bases/starships that could later ambush the Cerberus salvage teams and turn them into...you guessed it...husks!

From the perspective of the grunt on the ground, with the ultimate goal of denying the enemy use of the base (whether through capture or destruction), destroying the base is the only plan of action that guarantees mission success.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 02 juillet 2010 - 01:21 .

[Samurai_Wahoo]

My self reflective Shep keeps the base. It is kind of funny, I always felt that the decision to keep the council alive really had no impact on ME2. It had a HUGE impact on me, once I saw that they would not lift a finger to help and chose to forget about the events with Saren. It took me a while to decide and I realized TIM wants the samething, while the council went the route of ignorance is bliss.



I had to think about the future because even with the Saren attack that ended up in their lap, they choose to do nothing proactive. Siding with TIM is a necessary evil to help give an advantage in the war.

[pprrff]

DPSSOC wrote...

pprrff wrote...
Or an option 3, where you don't actually need the collector's base to beat the reaper, and you can use your defiance against Cerbrus as evidence of your impartiallity to the different races.

 
Yes except we've seen how those races respond to your good will.  Regardless of what you've done for them, the sacrifices you've made on their behalf the Council dismiss your warnings and publicly discredit you.  We have no reason to believe the Council will side with us just because we've shown our good intentions; admittedly it can't hurt but on it's own will not be enough.  Realistically, based on how the characters are developed, the only way to gain the Council's loyalty will be to prove the inevitability of their destruction.  Either in a Paragon, "United we stand divided we fall" approach or a Renegade, "Stand with me or fall before my might."

pprrff wrote...
With that, you can gather support from turian, salarian and the asari, not to mention the human alliance. With a more powerful alliance of organic races, you can resist the reapers more effectively.

Arguable.  In all honesty it would be more effective to prop up a single race to the point they can take on the Reapers individually or at least force the others to fall in line.  With the Paragon Alliance you're ultimately going to run into the issue of who's in charge; The Council won't bow to Humanity, the Quarians, Krogan, Geth, and Rachni won't bow to the Council, or each other so you end up trying to forge a useful weapon out of this pack of squabbling children.  With the Renegade Alliance you have a single power, Cerberus at worst Humanity at best, capable of forcing these groups to work together.  It's not the best option and it certainly won't last long but it eliminates the inevitable bickering if you treat it as a gathering of equals.

It all comes down to perception; the Paragons see the other races as individuals who must be brought together to work for a common good.  Renegades (at least my Renegades) view them as materials that must be forged into a weapon to stop the Reapers.  They are the blade, the Collector base (more accurately the tech it provides) is the anvil, we will be the hammer.

I would certainly prefer the Paragon route but the fact of the matter is we don't know if we have that kind of time (ok we do but Shepard doesn't).  What good is it if everyone's united under sunshine and rainbows if the Reapers arrive before you're ready. 

Yeah, the council does 180 degree turn from the ending of the last game. I am little puzzled that they all of sudden dismissed the reaper theory outright. But going back you the Collector Base, the actual value of the base isn't spelled out. TIM says its valuable, but how valuable, he hasn't even gotten a chance to take a good look yet. Is it the key that will defeat reaper? We assume it is but we never get any confirmation. So its not like Saving the Base = Getting an awesome cool weapon at the end.  You risk pissing off the council and the alliance in hope that the base will be useful. I am not saying that the base is useless, but we don't know for sure how much Cerbrus will get out of the base, and how much will actually help to fight the reaper.

Another poster before said it perfectly what my view toward Cerbrus is. Cerbrus claims to help humanity only because most of the people in Cerbrus are human. If they have to sacrifice 90% of the human race so that Cerbrus rules the galaxy, they would, and they can still call it a victory of humanity because : Cerbrus>everyone else, Cerbrus is all human, therefore Human>everyone else.  

[StrawberryViking]

I do agree with keeping the base, as I usually go with the 'take any advantage we can get' in most situations. I compare the collector base decision to the saving the council decisions. While the more renegade choice is the tactically sound one (albiet at the cost of some lives), while the paragon is the honorable one. While normally I would choose honorable, I can't help but think that preserving your honor and integrity isn't as important as giving you a possible advantage. And to add into the fact that you are making this decision for trillions, and not just yourself, so it might be seen as selfish as well.



Most say that TIM will use the base to advance humanity, but in the here and now, that doesn't matter. Like someone before me said, a humanity controlled galaxy is better than one devoid of any advanced sentient life.



When something that big is at stake, you can't think about what the the future consequences. Because no one might live to see those consequences. The very fact that this decision could cost you in the form of losing the war with the reapers is the only reason you should keep the base.



Sure, I don't trust TIM, or his future motivations for keeping the collector base. But I do trust that the Illusive man doesn't want to be wiped out by the reapers, and will probably do everything in his power to prevent this, future plans aside. Mordin states that Cerberus doesn't usually work with aliens, so there must be a lot at stake to be recruiting him. That being said, it seems pretty clear to me that he would be willing to work together with the other races to defeat the reapers.



First and foremost, TIM intends for Shepard to defeat (or at least try) to defeat the reapers. Him, and everyone else knows this. He even plans on Shepard's eventual departure from Cerberus, by giving Shepard a state of the art ship, and a crew that was hand-picked for being loyal to Shepard personally, outspoken and vocal followers of him, so the crew wouldn't mutiny over the decision to separate from Cerberus.



One of the taglines for ME1 was that extinction is one decision away, and while in that game, it wasn't necessarily true, I take it very literally when playing the game. I don't just assume that bioware will reward our good acts with a happy ending, I try to take the most tactically sound choice, and hope we make it through.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

The base IS useless for winning the war. There is NO war-winning advantage - there may be a tip-the-balance advantage IF we were at military parity with the Reapers (which we're not), and there may be a reduce-friendly-casualties advantage if we were militarily superior to the Reapers (which we're not). Trying to beat the Reapers with their own tech is like trying to beat Chuck Norris with a roundhouse kick by copying his roundhouse kick. It's just not happening.

In a war between two armies with parity, researching and developing countermeasures against captured enemy tech may be a war-winning strategy. However, any war against the Reapers will see the Reapers with superior technology, whether the Collector Base is kept or not. This isn't Independence Day, and the player is not playing freaking Will Smith. Trying to out-tech a technologically superior enemy only happens in Hollywood, and trying to out-tech a technologically superior enemy with their own tech is just retarded.

That being said, keeping the base would give Cerberus an edge over the Alliance/other Council races in the galaxy, because unlike the Reapers, Cerberus is (more or less) at military parity with these galactic powers. It will do nothing against the Reapers. By keeping the base, the only people that benefit is Cerberus...after the Reapers are defeated.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 02 juillet 2010 - 02:43 .

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Thanks for letting everyone know you disagree. At least I tried to explain. What are you trying to do right now?

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 02 juillet 2010 - 03:19 .

[ZaroktheImmortal]

mosor wrote...

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

If you can't see how keeping a base used to make reapers could backfire then you're very short sighted. Especially when handing it over to Cerberus. I wonder if The Illusive Man actually thinks he could control a human made reaper. Somehow I doubt anyone could, except maybe another reaper.

Why do you assume that keeping the base involves making reapers? The millions of humans required to make even 1 reaper is beyond the logistics of anyone other than the reapers, including cerberus. Cerberus' intentions with the collector base is exactly what the illusive man said it would be. Find information and tech to defeat the reapers and later use that tech and info to secure human dominance. Not convert us all to reapers.

Even so, I imagine it would be dangerous. And somehow I think Cerberus will find a way to screw it up. Look at the first game with their experiments all getting out of hand. They don't seem to have much in safety protocols and every time they try to experiment with something they don't understand they just cause more problems.

[mosor]

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

mosor wrote...

ZaroktheImmortal wrote...

If you can't see how keeping a base used to make reapers could backfire then you're very short sighted. Especially when handing it over to Cerberus. I wonder if The Illusive Man actually thinks he could control a human made reaper. Somehow I doubt anyone could, except maybe another reaper.

Why do you assume that keeping the base involves making reapers? The millions of humans required to make even 1 reaper is beyond the logistics of anyone other than the reapers, including cerberus. Cerberus' intentions with the collector base is exactly what the illusive man said it would be. Find information and tech to defeat the reapers and later use that tech and info to secure human dominance. Not convert us all to reapers.

Even so, I imagine it would be dangerous. And somehow I think Cerberus will find a way to screw it up. Look at the first game with their experiments all getting out of hand. They don't seem to have much in safety protocols and every time they try to experiment with something they don't understand they just cause more problems.

Maybe. Regardless if they screw up or not, maybe there is intel there to defeat the reapers. I'd rather take that chance rather than have no chance at any information. Sitting on your computer, smugly destroying the collector base and knowing that bioware will write in another opportunity for a paragon to get the same info seems too much like metagamming to me. Roleplay wise, saving the base is the right call considering the galaxy is at stake.

[mosor]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

The base IS useless for winning the war. There is NO war-winning advantage - there may be a tip-the-balance advantage IF we were at military parity with the Reapers (which we're not), and there may be a reduce-friendly-casualties advantage if we were militarily superior to the Reapers (which we're not). Trying to beat the Reapers with their own tech is like trying to beat Chuck Norris with a roundhouse kick by copying his roundhouse kick. It's just not happening.

In a war between two armies with parity, researching and developing countermeasures against captured enemy tech may be a war-winning strategy. However, any war against the Reapers will see the Reapers with superior technology, whether the Collector Base is kept or not. This isn't Independence Day, and the player is not playing freaking Will Smith. Trying to out-tech a technologically superior enemy only happens in Hollywood, and trying to out-tech a technologically superior enemy with their own tech is just retarded.

That being said, keeping the base would give Cerberus an edge over the Alliance/other Council races in the galaxy, because unlike the Reapers, Cerberus is (more or less) at military parity with these galactic powers. It will do nothing against the Reapers. By keeping the base, the only people that benefit is Cerberus...after the Reapers are defeated.

You're forgetting intel. Even something simple as do the reapers have a weakness to exploit? The whole point of the base was to build a reaper. Thats pretty good reason to think you may find info on their weaknesses.

From your previous posts, I see you like WW2 references. The allies caputured a U boat, got the enigma machine and changed the course of the war. Not from any technological breakthroughs from capturing the enigma machine, but through superior intelligence by cracking it.

[Captain Jazz]

mosor wrote...

The Straw Man fallacy is  when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. The position of most people who save the base is that at very least, between the reapers and cerberus, cerberus is the lesser of two evils. You misrepresent the argument by not including the reapers in the equation, thus your argument is a strawman.

As for your conclusions about cerberus.

1. You provide no evidence that they're power hungry for themselves specifically. Nothing they've done contradicts that they're goal is for power for humanity as a whole.

2. Their experiments simply show they're willing to do whatever it takes to make humanity stronger. If the illusive man wanted political power, he has the money and resources to take it rather than meddle with the canidates of the fringe Terra Firma Party. For instance big oil and big pharma buy canidates all the time in congress and have a lot of political clout. Illusive man has more resources than they do.

The choice isn't between letting the reapers or cerberus have the base, nor is it between letting cerberus have the base or let the reapers kill us all, the choice is between saving the base or giving it to cerberus. I'm more concerned with cerberus' history of massively botched scientific endevours than I am with having to face the reapers using other methods.
So tell me, what am I ignoring about their position? Why does their position matter when I am talking about their actions?
I seems to me that you are attempting to make my position a strawman attack on your position but that is not the case, it's a statement of the fact that I do not trust cerberus because every experience that I have had with them has led me to believe that their actions are ill considered, clumsily executed, bad for the galactic community and, despite their intentions, bad for humanity.
Since there is nothing of cerberus that I have experienced and am ignoring and I am not making my statement as a refutation of yours, you are either incorrect or misrepresenting my position in your refutation... what was the word for that again?
I grant you that I may be wrong about cerberus, but nothing in my experience shows that and while working with ones own experience while formulating a position may, if you are lacking vital evidence, lead to a flawed position, it does not lead to a strawman position.

As for your replies to my conclusions.

1) If cerberus gains power for humanity as a whole cerberus benefits. If you think they aren't aware of that...
Also, if they're interested in achieving power for humanity as a whole, why do they have no issue with murdering powerful humans?

The other side effect of humanity gaining dominance is likely to be strained relations with, and possibly a weakening of, the other races. If the reapers are to be defeated, all races need to be working together and they all need to be strong.

2) True, the experiments do show that. The experiments also show that they have no concept of how to do that without getting their scientific teams killed (this is not a good way to conduct experiments, nor become stronger.)

What good would taking control of human government do the Illusive man at the moment? Humanity would still be in the same position in galactic politics, they first need to manipulate events in order to weaken the other races and put humanity into a position to grow stronger... how much money would oil magnates waste if they tried to take control of parish councils? The human government is probably very powerful in human territory, but in galactic standards they're only a parish council dealing with local issues. In order to have control, the magnate needs to have a stake in the government of a country - the citadel council is the country that the Illusive man needs a foothold in and there is no way he'll get that foothold with things as they are right now.

[mosor]

The choice isn't between letting the reapers or cerberus have the base, nor is it between letting cerberus have the base or let the reapers kill us all, the choice is between saving the base or giving it to cerberus. I'm more concerned with cerberus' history of massively botched scientific endevours than I am with having to face the reapers using other methods.
So tell me, what am I ignoring about their position? Why does their position matter when I am talking about their actions?

You're misrepresting their position. You claim there are other methods but don't elaborate what exactly are those other methods are? The position for most people that save the base is that gaining intellegence, technology or both to defeat the reapers is important. That the threat cerberus poses pales in compared to the threat the reapers pose. You made it into a matter of gaving the base to terrorists or not. Without the reaper threat I certainily wouldn't give it to cerberus, but the reapers change the equation and thats something you didn't factor in. That's why your previous post was a straw man.

1) If cerberus gains power for humanity as a whole cerberus benefits. If you think they aren't aware of that...
Also, if they're interested in achieving power for humanity as a whole, why do they have no issue with murdering powerful humans?

Who, Kahokou? He went rogue and decided to work with the shadow broker to bring down ceberus. I feel sorry for him but lets be honest, he brought that upon himself.

The other side effect of humanity gaining dominance is likely to be strained relations with, and possibly a weakening of, the other races. If the reapers are to be defeated, all races need to be working together and they all need to be strong.

Or one really powerful race that doesn't have to waste time bickering and negotiating with others when the reapers invade.

2) True, the experiments do show that. The experiments also show that they have no concept of how to do that without getting their scientific teams killed (this is not a good way to conduct experiments, nor become stronger.)

Not all cerberus experiments are failures. We  know more about the failures because TIM uses sheppard to clean up the messes. Doesn't mean they didn't have a lot of sucesses either. They rebuilt you, built a new normandy with integrated reaper tech, built EDI using reaper tech. So they had plenty of sucesses. They're not a bunch of failures.

What good would taking control of human government do the Illusive man at the moment? Humanity would still be in the same position in galactic politics, they first need to manipulate events in order to weaken the other races and put humanity into a position to grow stronger... how much money would oil magnates waste if they tried to take control of parish councils? The human government is probably very powerful in human territory, but in galactic standards they're only a parish council dealing with local issues. In order to have control, the magnate needs to have a stake in the government of a country - the citadel council is the country that the Illusive man needs a foothold in and there is no way he'll get that foothold with things as they are right now.

TIM can still do all that and control the human government behind the scenes. Like I said, he didn't have to rely on the terra firma party.

Modifié par mosor, 02 juillet 2010 - 02:03 .

[Captain Jazz]

There's something that's bothering me... it seems that most people who favour saving the base think that the reapers will win if we don't keep it, but it has been shown that it is possible to destroy a reaper. Granted, it was a difficult battle and there were massive casualties but it was possible. Add two years of technological advancement onto that; stronger shields, stronger weapons, stronger armour, facial scar removal technology that doesn't work on Turians for some reason... now I understand that there are lots of reapers coming and I understand that the council are burying their heads, but does it really make sense that we really need the technology from the base in order to defeat them?

[mosor]

Captain Jazz wrote...

There's something that's bothering me... it seems that most people who favour saving the base think that the reapers will win if we don't keep it, but it has been shown that it is possible to destroy a reaper. Granted, it was a difficult battle and there were massive casualties but it was possible. Add two years of technological advancement onto that; stronger shields, stronger weapons, stronger armour, facial scar removal technology that doesn't work on Turians for some reason... now I understand that there are lots of reapers coming and I understand that the council are burying their heads, but does it really make sense that we really need the technology from the base in order to defeat them?

One reaper wrecked a lot of havoc. Hundreds possibly thousands more? I don't think we stand a chance even with a couple technological upgrades. Ideally you'd want to find some sort of weakness or a way to neutralize them all at once. I don't think any grand coalition will be able to stop an invasion on that scale. At this time the best opportunity for gaining that kind of info is on the collector base. I'm sure bioware will write in other opportunities, but in real life I wouldn't be so certain. Given whats at stake, I wouldn't sneeze at these opportunities soley based on cerberus.

Just think of the worst case scanrios.

1. The worst case scenario for the paragon decision. The coalition fails, we didn't get another opportunity to learn how to defeat the reapers and you watch as trillions die before you go out in a blaze of glory.

2. The worst case in saving the base. You defeat the reapers, but cerberus/humanity dominate the galaxy. Humanity become really facisit and ruthless (Not saying this will be the case of a human dominated galaxy, but this is worst case). Many trillions still live. No one can stay dominant forever, and eventually all will be overthrown. However sentinient life will still go on in our galaxy.

I didn't mention that even saving the base the reapers win because the outcome is the same as 1 only that I have no regrets about doing everything possible to win.

[pprrff]

mosor wrote...

Captain Jazz wrote...

There's something that's bothering me... it seems that most people who favour saving the base think that the reapers will win if we don't keep it, but it has been shown that it is possible to destroy a reaper. Granted, it was a difficult battle and there were massive casualties but it was possible. Add two years of technological advancement onto that; stronger shields, stronger weapons, stronger armour, facial scar removal technology that doesn't work on Turians for some reason... now I understand that there are lots of reapers coming and I understand that the council are burying their heads, but does it really make sense that we really need the technology from the base in order to defeat them?

One reaper wrecked a lot of havoc. Hundreds possibly thousands more? I don't think we stand a chance even with a couple technological upgrades. Ideally you'd want to find some sort of weakness or a way to neutralize them all at once. I don't think any grand coalition will be able to stop an invasion on that scale. At this time the best opportunity for gaining that kind of info is on the collector base. I'm sure bioware will write in other opportunities, but in real life I wouldn't be so certain. Given whats at stake, I wouldn't sneeze at these opportunities soley based on cerberus.

Just think of the worst case scanrios.

1. The worst case scenario for the paragon decision. The coalition fails, we didn't get another opportunity to learn how to defeat the reapers and you watch as trillions die before you go out in a blaze of glory.

2. The worst case in saving the base. You defeat the reapers, but cerberus/humanity dominate the galaxy. Humanity become really facisit and ruthless (Not saying this will be the case of a human dominated galaxy, but this is worst case). Many trillions still live. No one can stay dominant forever, and eventually all will be overthrown. However sentinient life will still go on in our galaxy.

I didn't mention that even saving the base the reapers win because the outcome is the same as 1 only that I have no regrets about doing everything possible to win.

The worst case scenario for the saving the base is that the base does not help destroy the reapers, but intead you gain the suspicion of every other organic being in the galaxy, so when you run to them for help their first reaction is to put a shotgun to your face. Infact, the scenario you put forward for keeping the base should be the absolute best thing that can happen to the renegade path,

Is really there any evidence to suggest the having the base = victory, at least with the certainty that the even the absolute worst outcome will still have you beat them?  <_< If there is, then yes, keeping the base is worth it. But we don't know that. I can just as well assume the destroy the base will allow you to gather a grand coalition, giving you a equally valid path to fight the reapers.

Modifié par pprrff, 02 juillet 2010 - 05:02 .

[Vicious]

I didn't see a reason to keep the base. I was beating Collectors the whole game with my 'inferior tech.'

Even completely unupgraded and damaged, the SR2 can beat the Collector Ship, a far larger vessel.

I just didn't see any reason to keep the base.


There was nothing in the base to indicate it had anything to stop the reapers. Actually quite the opposite, everything IN the base was made to HELP the reapers or make new ones. Not particularly useful.  Cerberus sucks at trying to research alien tech. Like really sucks.

Modifié par Vicious, 02 juillet 2010 - 05:19 .

[Margret Li]

My decision to destroy the base was due to the Mass Relays, and the Citadel. The fact that those were "left behind" by the Reapers to trick other civilization into using their tech so the cycle can start again. Based on that knowledge, how can anyone trust anything that was once a home to so many Reapers? Even being dormant, I just don't think there is any civilization in that universe is ready to study this tech and NOT be affected by it. After all, all civilization in the ME universe based some of their space faring abilities on Reaper tech.

[LorDC]

Vicious wrote...

I didn't see a reason to keep the base. I was beating Collectors the whole game with my 'inferior tech.'

Even completely unupgraded and damaged, the SR2 can beat the Collector Ship, a far larger vessel.

I just didn't see any reason to keep the base.

That's called metagaming and I dare to say it is not welcome in this thread. You can justify just about any choice you make with "nah, I will win game anyway" reason.

Vicious wrote...

There was nothing in the base to indicate it had anything to stop the reapers. Actually quite the opposite, everything IN the base was made to HELP the reapers or make new ones. Not particularly useful.  Cerberus sucks at trying to research alien tech. Like really sucks.

So you are saying that having an example of technology can't help you to research ways to counter it? Sorry but this is total crap.

[Ninniach Lina]

Cause I wanted to give TIM a friggan huge 'F U'.

Seriously, I can't bring myself to keep it cause TIM is just that annoying. Wish I could keep it and give it to citadel, or call Alliance and give them IFF data so they can handle it instead of TIM.

Until then I am blowing it up.

[LorDC]

Margret Li wrote...

My decision to destroy the base was due to the Mass Relays, and the Citadel. The fact that those were "left behind" by the Reapers to trick other civilization into using their tech so the cycle can start again. Based on that knowledge, how can anyone trust anything that was once a home to so many Reapers? Even being dormant, I just don't think there is any civilization in that universe is ready to study this tech and NOT be affected by it. After all, all civilization in the ME universe based some of their space faring abilities on Reaper tech.

First, comparing captured base(and not some far outpost but place where critical project took place) to "left behind" mass relays is kinda far-fetched. As I said earlier in this thread if Reapers can turn such kind of win against you it is no use to fight them because they are just too cunning and powerful.
Second, "Reapers tech inherently bad" argument was discussed bazillion times already. There are (a) loads of examples of Reapers tech helping your cause and ( standart "why don't you destroy anything mass effect based" reply.

[Ninniach Lina]

Also, LorD, I had a sneaking suspicion that the Reapers weren't gonna just let us keep this base, be it remote deleting all data, self destruction, or letting us get all kinds of researchers there and turning off the gravity, hurling everyone into the blackhole.



When I think of a Reaper plan I figure it has to be a Xanatos gambit.

[Lemonwizard]

I destroy the collector base because I consider getting assimilated by the reapers to be a preferable alternative to letting Cerberus take over the galaxy.

[shep82]

With all these differing reasons for keeping or destroying the base it will be very interesting to see what the consequences of each action is.

[Margret Li]

LorDC wrote...

Margret Li wrote...

My decision to destroy the base was due to the Mass Relays, and the Citadel. The fact that those were "left behind" by the Reapers to trick other civilization into using their tech so the cycle can start again. Based on that knowledge, how can anyone trust anything that was once a home to so many Reapers? Even being dormant, I just don't think there is any civilization in that universe is ready to study this tech and NOT be affected by it. After all, all civilization in the ME universe based some of their space faring abilities on Reaper tech.

First, comparing captured base(and not some far outpost but place where critical project took place) to "left behind" mass relays is kinda far-fetched. As I said earlier in this thread if Reapers can turn such kind of win against you it is no use to fight them because they are just too cunning and powerful.
Second, "Reapers tech inherently bad" argument was discussed bazillion times already. There are (a) loads of examples of Reapers tech helping your cause and ( standart "why don't you destroy anything mass effect based" reply.

Point taken. I didn't actually read the entire thread. I was just offering up my own reasons behind my decisions. Of course, I have a save for both endings, just to be sure.