3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

True but maybe blowing it can cause issues, not no win kinds, but still issues. However keeping will most likely cause more.



Also I take back saying that Keeping the base is the dumbest thing to do in game.

Recruiting then Sleeping with Morinth is the dumbest thing in the game period.

[Sniper11709]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No point in arguing any of this:
Human Supremasicits think that genocide, murder, torture, and war crimes are ok since its not anybody we now who gets killed. When ME3 comes out and cerberus does stab you in the back I will laugh when posts go up saying "Bioware hates Renegades!" or "Cerberus is right!" or even " GAME IS BROKEN" show up.

I'm sorry have you not been following the ME storyline closely enough, all the major factions in Mass Effect have skeletons in their closets.
War Crimes? In the ME universe where the primary power in the universe commited genocide (as far as they knew, dosen't matter that it didn't happen just that they thought they had) by uplifting a race and then attempting it again by hitting them with a bioweapon when their interests didn't align anymore i doubt anyone can really claim someone has commited war crimes.
Torture? Come on how naive are you, it's the ME universe i bet every faction has no qualms getting their information that way.
Genocide? I thought you were talking about Cerberus not the Council.
Having just spent the last minute typing this up i realized something, your a troll why am i bothering?

First things first, I was refering to people saying that since Cerberus is "saving:" humanity, anything they do is justified.
Secondly, I full well realize just what people in ME did before and still do (Genophage/Rachni) I was merely pointing out the humor in people saying "The Ends Justify any Means, since we is humans"
Thirdly- A troll is a person whos posts a  topic  to inicite an emotional and angry response. I was merely pointing out a humerous observation that people seem to be blind to what cerberus is, and will be angry when ME3 comes out.

My post was pointing out the problem with 2, It's not "The Ends Justify any Means, since we is humans" It's "The Ends Justify any Means, cause some other morons are going to do it if we don't so it might as well be us".

Sorry about mistaking you for a troll i just get irriated that this topic keeps coming up and everyone goes over the same territory over and over again and then some moronic paragon player comes in and starts trolling.

[Giggles_Manically]

Sniper11709 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No point in arguing any of this:
Human Supremasicits think that genocide, murder, torture, and war crimes are ok since its not anybody we now who gets killed. When ME3 comes out and cerberus does stab you in the back I will laugh when posts go up saying "Bioware hates Renegades!" or "Cerberus is right!" or even " GAME IS BROKEN" show up.

I'm sorry have you not been following the ME storyline closely enough, all the major factions in Mass Effect have skeletons in their closets.
War Crimes? In the ME universe where the primary power in the universe commited genocide (as far as they knew, dosen't matter that it didn't happen just that they thought they had) by uplifting a race and then attempting it again by hitting them with a bioweapon when their interests didn't align anymore i doubt anyone can really claim someone has commited war crimes.
Torture? Come on how naive are you, it's the ME universe i bet every faction has no qualms getting their information that way.
Genocide? I thought you were talking about Cerberus not the Council.
Having just spent the last minute typing this up i realized something, your a troll why am i bothering?

First things first, I was refering to people saying that since Cerberus is "saving:" humanity, anything they do is justified.
Secondly, I full well realize just what people in ME did before and still do (Genophage/Rachni) I was merely pointing out the humor in people saying "The Ends Justify any Means, since we is humans"
Thirdly- A troll is a person whos posts a  topic  to inicite an emotional and angry response. I was merely pointing out a humerous observation that people seem to be blind to what cerberus is, and will be angry when ME3 comes out.

My post was pointing out the problem with 2, It's not "The Ends Justify any Means, since we is humans" It's "The Ends Justify any Means, cause some other morons are going to do it if we don't so it might as well be us".

Sorry about mistaking you for a troll i just get irriated that this topic keeps coming up and everyone goes over the same territory over and over again and then some moronic paragon player comes in and starts trolling.

No offence got called worse before. Also I think pure paragon is stupid as hell and naive.
Paragade is the best way to play since the Renegade Interupts make too much sense not to use. Not so much on mouse or the window merc though.

Sadly this topic wont die until ME3, have to wait and see I guess.

[lovgreno]

Sniper11709 wrote...
Sorry about mistaking you for a troll i just get irriated that this topic keeps coming up and everyone goes over the same territory over and over again and then some moronic paragon player comes in and starts trolling.

It always comes down to this sooner or later it seems. Those who doesn't agree with your opinion that the base should be spared are moronic and if they try to debate in favour of their own opinion it's trolling.

[Giggles_Manically]

The hate stops.

Then the hate begins again.

I come out.

But it drags us back in.

[Sniper11709]

lovgreno wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...
Sorry about mistaking you for a troll i just get irriated that this topic keeps coming up and everyone goes over the same territory over and over again and then some moronic paragon player comes in and starts trolling.

It always comes down to this sooner or later it seems. Those who doesn't agree with your opinion that the base should be spared are moronic and if they try to debate in favour of their own opinion it's trolling.

No it's moronic when you come in and use either Soverigns or Legions quote thinking it trumps any and all reasons for keeping the base compleatly ignoring the fact that the entire galactic tech base is already built on Reaper tech so it's too late to try and change paths. It's moronic when people go on about how Cerberus is unturstworthy for this and that and thus shouldn't get the base but at the same time they think the Council or the Alliance can be trusted, to me it's either Cerberus can be trusted with it or no one can, not because Cerberus represents humanity,is better then everyone else or anything like that but because every faction in ME is as bad Cerberus. It's moronic when people don't even bother debating their points they just think it auto wins for them and keep raising their point without ever responding to counter points.

It's trolling when you act like a dick because to people because they want Humanity to be the leaders of a fictional universe and then treat them like racists for it. and yes shockingly enough some person was that stupid.

Edit- and before you say anything there is of course moron and trolls on my side of the debate but i shouldn't have to mention that because any side of a forum debate will have them.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 14 juillet 2010 - 12:47 .

[Enfuego]

Rzepik2 wrote...

Because they're all goody-goody paragons. I'm pretty sure that's the most important reason. Some blue numbers can be a stronger impulse than a rational analyze.

I don't think there's anything rational about handing an amoral, ambitious and staggeringly powerful entity like The Illusive Man a factory capable of producing galaxy ending weapons. 

But that's just me.  I'm sure you'd give nukes to Stalin if he promised you some candy.

[Kitteh303]

1. It's the paragon option and I like to have either 100% paragon or 100% renegade Sheps.



2. To spite TIM. He can't be trusted.



3. Cerberus has done a lot of screwed up things, I don't think the story with the collector base would be any different.



4. To see what happens in ME3.

[rabidhanar]

This thread is still alive.....wow

I keep seeing the same arguements pop up here from both sides.

Renegade - sacrifice of humans worthwhile, save galaxy, advance technology
Paragons - prevent Cerberus Control, save galaxy from human dominance, prevent genocide

Modifié par rabidhanar, 14 juillet 2010 - 03:25 .

[rabidhanar]

Shandepared wrote...

The "save galaxy" part doesn't fit because the paragon has no guddamn plan.

maybe now fixed?

Your opinion is biased towards Renegades, please do not lead my post toward getting attacked by both parties, thx

[noisecode]

Through out the course of the game, thanks to the brilliant voice acting of Mr. Sheen, as well as the reserved, controlled disposition of TIM, I found myself wanting to trust The Illusive man, which is exactly why I did'nt. 

It took me less than 15 seconds to make the descion to blow up the base, because i asked myself the question "What will Cerberus do with the collector technology once the Reapers are dealt with?"     Not to mention everything in the collector base is an abomination.  Would the techonology have helped destroy the reapers?  Maybe.   Did the base have to burn?..... most definitly...

When I had that answer, I set the base to blow and narrowly escaped with my right hand man Garrus and the Future Mrs. Tali Sheperd.

The Illusive man can bill me..............

[Bad_sheep]

I took the renegade option even though I was nearly pure paragon, why? Because it made sense.

I look at it this way:



1-Either Cerberus doesn't get the plans on the reapers and nobody can stop them, mass species genocide (Turians, Krogan, Humans, Asaries are overwhelmed by the reaper)



2-Either Cerberus gets the plan and ONLY uses it to destroy the reapers and peacefully advance human knowlege.



3-Either Cerberus gets the plan, kills the Reapers and prepares to attack other species.



I'm not naive, I know how #3 is likely, however, when I took the descision I told myself that if it ever comes to this I will personally hunt down TIM and dismantle Cerberus. Because if you look at the other options, even if we DO manage to beat the reapers, it won't be without sustaining heavy casualities from all the species, casualities that could have been avoided if we had the blueprint. And I fully expect Shepard to be capable of hunt TIM through the Shadowbroker or Liara...

[noisecode]

Shandepared wrote...


So apparently saving the galaxy is secondary towards upholding their morality to a paragon.

   Nope, saving the Galaxy is always top priority with me;

I defend it from both the Reapers and a certain "Pro human" organization which, in all likely hood, would take the first chance they get and use the collector base  to steam roll all the other species in the galaxy into submission.

The havok that base would cause in the hands of the Illusive man AFTER the Reapers were dealt with is unthinkable.   Cerberus set Thresher Maws loose on Akuze just to "See what would happen", so one can logically assume that once the Galaxy is saved from the reapers that Cerberus would use the Collector base to bring the galaxy to it's knees.  Put simply:  with me it's not an issue of morality, at least with my canon shepard.... its an issue of "Do I give a dangerous, untrusty worthy man with a questionable agenda a weapon that can destroy my enemies and keep my fingers crossed that he wont turn around and kill / enslave the people i just saved? " 

Screw that....................if the Illusive Man wants that technology so bad, he can go through Omega 4 and go pick up the pieces with his bare hands for all I care lol.    I'll find another way to stop the Reapers, and if I can't then my Shepard will die content that he sent half the Reaper fleet back to Dark space with one hell of a repair bill.  

   Now my renegade Shepard............ well..................... heh....thats a different story.... 

Modifié par noisecode, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:25 .

[noisecode]

Shandepared wrote...

noisecode wrote...


   Nope, saving the Galaxy is always top priority with me;

If that were true you'd have saved the Collector base.

Yea because after I take care of the Reapers I really need to have to try and take down the Illusive man like I need a hole in the head, and taking him down will be (sarcasm) ULTRA EASY  to do if he has Reaper / Collector technology.

   Because we all know that the Illusive man is a real nice guy who is upfront and honest about EVERYTHING, and he would NEVER in a million years order Thresher Maws set loose on Akuze just to study how quickly they can swallow a ten man squad whole....so it must be safe to trust him with extremely destructive technology....  right?


Saving the galaxy from one threat while simultaneously arming another potential threat with destructive technology IS NOT SAVING THE GALAXY..... 





  

Modifié par noisecode, 14 juillet 2010 - 04:43 .

[noisecode]

Shandepared wrote...

noisecode wrote...

Yea because after I take care of the Reapers I really need to have to try and take down the Illusive man like I need a hole in the head, and taking him down will be (sarcasm) ULTRA EASY  to do if he has Reaper / Collector technology.

If you fail to stop the Reapers you'll never need to worry about the Ilusive Man. Without the proper technology to narrow the technological gap between us and the Reapers our chances in a war are probably not very good.




  

I know..... the odds are stacked against me.  

But like any Scifi action hero, my Shepard works better when the odds are insurmountable.

Personaly, I think the Reapers can be beaten regardless of wether you saved the base or not.... i don't think Bioware would punish us for choosing one way or another.  Rather i think thier will be consequences regardless of whether you perserve the collector base or not....

Modifié par noisecode, 14 juillet 2010 - 05:00 .

[Raideag]

KalosCast wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I didn't do so in my "personal canon Shepard," but I think the main reason would be not to deliver possibly dangerous technology into the hands of an untrustworthy racially motivated terrorist leader.

This.

Pretty much every time that we screw around with Reaper tech, it comes to bite us in the ass. Since Cerberus is inept to the point of comedy, and it's already implied that TIM would consider this a viable option, Cerberus will probably end up making their own Reaper.

More than likely TIM or The Illusive Man is an android, which will then be taken over by the reapers if he hasn't already been. Since they seem to have a unique way of taking over AI technology. Not to mention the foreshadowing of TIM actually watching the same core world star, that Shepard had to warp into with the Omega-4 relay. Soon as they destroyed the collector base, the core world no longer had the red hue to it and was just blue. As well as the graphical representation of the data that you find at the heretic base that Shepard and Legion found is the same thing that TIM has on one of his monitors.

Which probably means he knows more than he's letting everyone in on... TIM's a covert reaper...

[tvih]

Raideag wrote...
Which probably means he knows more than he's letting everyone in on... TIM's a covert reaper...

Pff, it wouldn't surprise me all that much if TIM was actually Harbinger Something's fishy about him anyway. His eyes aren't quite human at times. And something indeed gives with that little sun of his. As I said in my earlier post - I trust him as far as I can throw him. Probably even less, actually.

[Bad_sheep]

Don't see much sense in TIM being a reaper, I mean, all his actions were AGAINST the reapers... I agree that he knows more than he is letting off, but him being indoctrinated would be a complete ass pull.

[packardbell]

Because TIM would use it for nefarious purposes as evidently shown in the upcoming book.