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[Giggles_Manically]

I was more saying the many people on here who support Cerberus seem to want to build an IMPERIUM OF MAN.



While the pro-council side seems to want to build the federation.

[Heimdall]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I was more saying the many people on here who support Cerberus seem to want to build an IMPERIUM OF MAN.

While the pro-council side seems to want to build the federation.

Even though I think Warhammer 40k is awsomesauce.  I'd rather build the federation.

That is an interesting way of putting it.

[Giggles_Manically]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I was more saying the many people on here who support Cerberus seem to want to build an IMPERIUM OF MAN.

While the pro-council side seems to want to build the federation.

Even though I think Warhammer 40k is awsomesauce.  I'd rather build the federation.

That is an interesting way of putting it.

I grew up listening to Kirk and Picard explaining the Federation and dealing with flaws people have every day. That probably does colour my thinking, but Star Trek planted the seed in my head that it is possible to build something where all people regardless of who they are or where they were born could come toghther in peace and as equals.

It may be just a dream, but it is still one worth reaching for IYAM.

[Heimdall]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I was more saying the many people on here who support Cerberus seem to want to build an IMPERIUM OF MAN.

While the pro-council side seems to want to build the federation.

Even though I think Warhammer 40k is awsomesauce.  I'd rather build the federation.

That is an interesting way of putting it.

I grew up listening to Kirk and Picard explaining the Federation and dealing with flaws people have every day. That probably does colour my thinking, but Star Trek planted the seed in my head that it is possible to build something where all people regardless of who they are or where they were born could come toghther in peace and as equals.

It may be just a dream, but it is still one worth reaching for IYAM.

Pro Cerberus people will probably take issue with the IMPERIUM OF MAN comparison though.  I mean, the preface of every 40k book starts with calling it the bloodiest regime imaginable...  I doubt thats what they're going for.  (Of course the thing about 40k is that the setting is so bleak and over the top that the IMPERIUM is not as bad as most of the other factions)

[Giggles_Manically]

Shandepared wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I was more saying the many people on here who support Cerberus seem to want to build an IMPERIUM OF MAN.

I'd rather build the United States. By that I mean a powerful "country" that has a strong military, economy, and a lot of influence. 

Also a collapsing economy, a gigantic growing debt, an overstreched military,  also hated by the vast chunk of the global population, with domestic problems growing faster than its corrupt government does.

Yeah perfect nation to try and model.

[smudboy]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I was more saying the many people on here who support Cerberus seem to want to build an IMPERIUM OF MAN.

While the pro-council side seems to want to build the federation.

I'd support whomever is against my enemy.  The alternative is unthinkable.

I'd quote Sten about not wasting anything, but I can't seem to find the quote...

[Heimdall]

Lets keep RL out of this, please?

[Giggles_Manically]

No point Shande has his head so far into the sand that he cant see reality. No point even trying anymore since for some reason the US in the supposed bestest country in the whole world.

[Giggles_Manically]

Shandepared wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

No point Shande has his head so far into the sand that he cant see reality. No point even trying anymore since for some reason the US in the supposed bestest country in the whole world.

Even assuming I had my head in the sand (which I don't) I'd rather have it there than up my own ass.

Good comeback, now go out get a job, and a life and stop pretending that this forum will matter tomorrow, since its a game and I have to work in the morning so night.

Also have fun when cerberus betrays you... again and tries to feed you into the Reaper smoothie!

[Giggles_Manically]

Not really since they:

Send you into get husked rushed multiple times in ME2.



So there is an actual basis to my claim, while you remain a glorified human supremacist troll bub.

[Giggles_Manically]

Shandepared wrote...

Husk rushes are solved with the firestorm. I hope you enjoy watching humanity get shafted and blamed by the Council races once again. Meanwhile I'll be gratified to see humanity cast them off because it won't need them.

Or oblitereated by the rest, as often happens to groups that try to overthrow others. 

Also a paragon imported universe is actually better for humanity than a renegade one anyway. So concerns are moot on the whole humanity in trouble line.

If anything Shep will go down a Saren path most likely as things are starting to set up that way.
ie: Geth, Krogan, Genophage Cure, etc.. should be interesting.

[rabidhanar]

Um I think you guys are taking these arguements personally.....As I said earlier, both sides have merit. However, I sincerely doubt that the reapers will not be defeated without the collector base in ME3. Also to those against keeping the base, I doubt that keeping the base will lead to Cerberus Dominance. Bioware will most likely not make a ton of differences between versions, the choice will matter but it might be that instead of neutral to good relations with some aliens, it will start with bad relationships. Renegade players might need to show their loyalty to other races more often; paragons will probably need to research more upgrades to counteract the technology gained from the base. No matter what, Shepard will be able to save the galaxy.



I personally believe that Cerberus will gain new leadership and change (maybe Miranda as leader?). This will prevent Cerberus Domination as the new leadership will not actively try to control the other races. While a cop-out, this will prevent an epic bad reaction to those that chose the "wrong" choice without prior knowledge.

[Giggles_Manically]

We should all just take a step back play some ME2 and wait for ME3.



Just a game no need to get snippy on both my part and others I sniped at.



I do wonder if there is the possibility of getting a REAPERED ending though if you screw up?

[rabidhanar]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

We should all just take a step back play some ME2 and wait for ME3.

Just a game no need to get snippy on both my part and others I sniped at.

I do wonder if there is the possibility of getting a REAPERED ending though if you screw up?

If you royally f up than I see no problem with a cutscene of reaper destruction, as in worst failure screen ever.

Let's just say that, for instance, the turians declare war against humanity while the geth and Quarians Duke it out elsewhere. Reapers come in after all fleets are damaged and destroy everything, show destruction of earth, arcturis fleet, the works. I would actually enjoy this for my first playthrough.

[Giggles_Manically]

rabidhanar wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

We should all just take a step back play some ME2 and wait for ME3.

Just a game no need to get snippy on both my part and others I sniped at.

I do wonder if there is the possibility of getting a REAPERED ending though if you screw up?

If you royally f up than I see no problem with a cutscene of reaper destruction, as in worst failure screen ever.

Let's just say that, for instance, the turians declare war against humanity while the geth and Quarians Duke it out elsewhere. Reapers come in after all fleets are damaged and destroy everything, show destruction of earth, arcturis fleet, the works. I would actually enjoy this for my first playthrough.

HARBINGER: WE WILL KILL THEM AND HARVEST THE SURVIVORS!
REAPER 1: Um looks like they are doing a bang up job already.
HARBINGER:  Well F that dibs on the hottub.

[rabidhanar]

Shandepared wrote...

rabidhanar wrote...

Um I think you guys are taking these arguements personally.....As I said earlier, both sides have merit.

No, not really. There's not one solid argument for destroying the base that doesn't hinge on fear or spite.

To directly counter you personally, there is also no concrete evidence that saving the base will guarentee defeating the reapers, we have no idea either way. Some people choose to have a harder time now for an earlier peace while others would like a higher chance of defeating the reapers now and worry about galactic civil war later. Maybe the reapers will destroy the base but you are able to defeat them at the last moment, no Cerberus Dominence, reapers destroyed, base destroyed, everyone wins.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

smudboy wrote...

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

smudboy wrote...

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Yes, any existence is better than no existence. At least if you exist, you can do something about it, with a chance (no matter how great or small) of success.

1*10^(-32)% is STILL greater than 0%. I destroyed the base in my ME2 playthroughs, but when defending the decision to destroy the base, I don't get this whole morality argument. There are a ton of good, practical reasons to destroy the base.

Like?

Haven't we been over this? There are tons. The one most important to me and the one most relevant to Shepherd, assuming that this is the first playthrough and that there has been no metagaming/no perfect 20/20 hindsight, is that as a small infiltration team working with non-existent intel (nobody knew what was on the other side of that relay right?), there was absolutely no way to guarantee that there isn't a second Collector base, or a second Collector cruiser - basically, that there are not more Collectors out there that would attempt to re-take the base.

It was an infiltrate and destroy suicide mission - to survive, Shepherd HAD to leave, whether he decided to bomb the place or set off the radiation pulse. After he leaves, there is no guarantee that when the Cerberus salvage team arrives the base has not been re-populated by Collectors from a second base or another cruiser.

Maybe it has, maybe not; the point is, Shepherd doesn't know. His objective - the only objective - is to deny the Collectors use of the base. And given the s**tty intel, the best way to do this is to destroy the base. Hindsight is perfect, but given what Shepherd knew at the time, blowing up the base is the most logical, most realistic and most sensible option from a military perspective. Realistically, Shepherd doesn't have the luxury of going back to a previous save point if he screws up.

For all we know, in that cut-scene where Cerberus ships are converging on the Collector base (if you kept it), there's a Collector cruiser about to spring an ambush. 

I highly doubt we'll have Fight the Collectors in ME3.  The narrative made no mentioned of other forces, and to assume others is pure speculation.  The Suicide Mission was to Stop the Collectors, and that's what happened.  Although I do not deny anything is possible, it's highly unlikely this'll be an issue.

There is no guarantee, evidence, or allusion to there being any more Collectors.

The objective was to Stop the Collectors.  It was not Deny the Collector Base to the Collectors.

Nice joke.  Yes, TIM is smirking to himself smuggly, unknown that one of his Cerberus vessels is in fact a Collector Ship in disguise...

Are you serious?

Just because it was never mentioned in the plot that there MAY be other Collectors, you think it's more rational to assume that there are  NO other Collectors? So, when the intel is non-existent - i.e. "We have no ****g clue what's beyond the Omega 4 relay" - you're claiming that it is perfectly reasonable to assume that "oh yeah, the first thing we see, that's all of it. One base, one cruiser. Meh."

You can't be serious. So what you're saying  is that the absence of evidence can be taken as evidence for absence? Wow, how can I argue against such infallible logic?

[smudboy]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...
Are you serious?

Just because it was never mentioned in the plot that there MAY be other Collectors, you think it's more rational to assume that there are  NO other Collectors? So, when the intel is non-existent - i.e. "We have no ****g clue what's beyond the Omega 4 relay" - you're claiming that it is perfectly reasonable to assume that "oh yeah, the first thing we see, that's all of it. One base, one cruiser. Meh."

You can't be serious. So what you're saying  is that the absence of evidence can be taken as evidence for absence? Wow, how can I argue against such infallible logic?

So the battle with the Collectors isn't over?  Well then, ME2 was one royal waste of time.  Gonna have to fight em again in ME3, sheesh.  I guess human colonies are still getting collected.  Darn!  Even getting to potentially only one of the Collector Bases, we couldn't find any data on other locations, ships, armaments, forces, equipment, planets, solar systems, etc.  I knew we couldn't trust EDI.  But they msut be out there.  We just haven't found them all.  Quick, call TIM!  Gotta get ready, build up another team for... Suicide Mission 2.0.

The narrative can only show and tell us things.  You can imagine all the other things that aren't seen or told as much as you like.