3478 réponses à ce sujet

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

smudboy wrote...
So the battle with the Collectors isn't over?  Well then, ME2 was one royal waste of time.  Gonna have to fight em again in ME3, sheesh.  I guess human colonies are still getting collected.  Darn!  Even getting to potentially only one of the Collector Bases, we couldn't find any data on other locations, ships, armaments, forces, equipment, planets, solar systems, etc.  I knew we couldn't trust EDI.  But they msut be out there.  We just haven't found them all.  Quick, call TIM!  Gotta get ready, build up another team for... Suicide Mission 2.0.

The narrative can only show and tell us things.  You can imagine all the other things that aren't seen or told as much as you like.

Man, talk about double standards.

A) If EDI can mine such information from the Collector Base, why can't she/it mine information that's relevant to defeating the Reapers? Why not just copy everything into a giant hard disk and book it? Why does Cerberus/TIM insist on keeping the base? No wait, lemme guess! You're intimately familiar with what EDI can and cannot do right? EDI can copy data on the Collectors but not data on the Reapers.

Hahaha, so you're telling me that Shepherd basically breaks the fourth wall and says, "hey Smudboy, you know what? Bioware isn't going to make us fight the Collectors again. Mass Effect 3 is going to be about the Reapers, so just keep the base bro (high fives you)."

So...does Shepherd know who or what Bioware is? Of course not. How the hell
would he know that there won't be a Suicide Mission 2.0?

Just because Bioware cannot repeat another suicide mission in ME3 is NOT a rational argument for keeping the base. This ranks up there with "I won't let fear compromise who I am" in terms of making absolutely NO SENSE. 

Again, Shepherd with his Infiltration team were sent in BLIND, with no intel. He pops up on the other side of the Omega 4 relay where he sees A (one) Collector base with A (one) Collector cruiser. Then TIM calls Shepherd mid-mission with his thumb up his **** and tells him to preserve the base, while providing no evidence that there aren't other Collectors running around the galaxy or that his normally inept lackeys can actually handle and secure such a facility.

Ask any guy in the military what he/she would do in such a situation, provided that they can disobey a direct order. It's a no-brainer.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...

rabidhanar wrote...
Um I think you guys are taking these arguements personally.....As I said earlier, both sides have merit.

No, not really. There's not one solid argument for destroying the base that doesn't hinge on fear or spite.

BS Shand, we've been over this. CERBERUS IS A TOTALLY UNPROVEN QUANTITY. You don't hand a lunatic a gun to smite a lion. You shoot the lion yourself.

[MrDavid]

I destroyed the base my first playthrough, for me it wasn't much of a decision. The Illusive Man cannot be trusted. There are no corners he isn't willing to cut; he sent Shepard right into a trap on that Collector Ship after spending millions of credits to bring him back from the dead. I admit, preserving the Collector base could strengthen the galaxy as a whole, it wouldn't. The Illusive Man might be willing to share the technology with the Alliance, but I don't think he would ever allow other races to use it. I saved the council in ME1, to preserve the balance between species, and for that same reason, I destroyed the Collector base.

[hawat333]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

I fail to see the point in doing it. Preserving the base seemed convientient and perhaps increased the chances of getting collector weapons and tech in ME3. I don't get why the majority of the community destroy it. The last person I asked just said it was "to get a more satifying explosion" but it seems like more than that.

Using Reaper tech turned out pretty good every time they tinkered with it. Yeah.

[LorDC]

hawat333 wrote...

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

I fail to see the point in doing it. Preserving the base seemed convientient and perhaps increased the chances of getting collector weapons and tech in ME3. I don't get why the majority of the community destroy it. The last person I asked just said it was "to get a more satifying explosion" but it seems like more than that.

Using Reaper tech turned out pretty good every time they tinkered with it. Yeah.

Yeah, Thannix and EDI proved to be invaluable. Grunt is absolute win too.

[tvih]

smudboy wrote...

So the battle with the Collectors isn't over?  Well then, ME2 was one royal waste of time.  Gonna have to fight em again in ME3, sheesh

So the battle with the Reapers isn't over? Well then, ME1 was one royal waste of time. Gonna have to fight em again in ME3, sheesh.

Yeah. Because every enemy must be defeated in one blow, right? And it's indeed not certain that there are no more Collectors. Would be odd if they only essentially had one ship and one base. Possible, but by no means certain. It was better to make sure that they don't get the base back in my books. Not to mention that despite the successful infiltration, who knows what traps would've been left behind by the former occupants?

Shandepared wrote...
BS yourself, we have been over this. Cerberus has proven competent and capable so far and the Collector base is too important to just destroy. 

Cerberus? Competent? I'm not sure what games you have been playing, certainly not the Mass Effect ones. It's Shepard that gets results, while also having to clean some of the messes Cerberus had made. Not to mention getting rid of their messes in ME1. If they are competent, an average monkey is competent in quantum mechanics. That's not to say Cerberus is the only incompetent entity in the game, but that does not make them competent either.

-

Also, I still don't get why people think the Collector base would yield any notably usable tech or info on the Reapers. Yeah, so what they were building a Reaper. What does that necessarily give Shepard on the existing, who knows how different Reapers? Unlikely that the Collectors had a complete database with detailed everything about the whole Reaper fleet.... And if the Collectors really had such great Reaper tech at their disposal, why were they effectively useless themselves? You'd think they'd have upgraded their own crap, too.

As far as ships of their own go, as I've said Cerberus/Shepard has the tech they need to make good ones, if only they'd manage to make them in large numbers. But that's the issue right there, they probably can't. And having the base intact wouldn't change that, either, nor would it likely give anything to instantly defeat the Reapers with in another manner either.

Chances are the Reapers wouldn't have left overly sensitive information with the Collectors more than they absolutely had to. If they were that careless, they wouldn't have triumphed for who knows how many millions of years. You could even end up with planted misinformation that would hurt you more than help with no way to know before it's already too late.

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote...

It has to do with the base being used for Reaper construction. Rational, logical people like myself see opportunity in this. Fearful, naive, egostical, selfish people like you see only the chance to spite the Illusive Man.

Generalisations.

[lovgreno]

tvih wrote...

Chances are the Reapers wouldn't have left overly sensitive information with the Collectors more than they absolutely had to. If they were that careless, they wouldn't have triumphed for who knows how many millions of years. You could even end up with planted misinformation that would hurt you more than help with no way to know before it's already too late.

In fact misinformation, manipulation and booby traps are the reapers most efficent and common weapon against the organics.

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Generalisations.

Hardly. It's an accurate description of the kind of people I'm stuck debating this topic with day in and day out.

No it is the way you choose to see them. It is accurate for you because it suits your way of seeing things. You don't realy know them. Why you persist in saying that those who disagrees with you are less smart than you I can't speculate about as I don't know you.

Modifié par lovgreno, 15 juillet 2010 - 10:31 .

[smudboy]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...
Man, talk about double standards.

I was about to say overreactions to a differing opinion.  But "chill" would suffice.  Where's my double standard, and what "standard" am I "doubling"?

A) If EDI can mine such information from the Collector Base, why can't she/it mine information that's relevant to defeating the Reapers? Why not just copy everything into a giant hard disk and book it? Why does Cerberus/TIM insist on keeping the base? No wait, lemme guess! You're intimately familiar with what EDI can and cannot do right? EDI can copy data on the Collectors but not data on the Reapers.

I only recall EDI getting a schematic of the base from scans, and 4 pictures of a Reaper.  She makes comments about what's in the center, aka, the Human Reaper Larva.  If the data or all information has been "mined", why would TIM then want to keep it?  I don't recall it being mined, but maybe I missed that.

Hahaha, so you're telling me that Shepherd basically breaks the fourth wall and says, "hey Smudboy, you know what? Bioware isn't going to make us fight the Collectors again. Mass Effect 3 is going to be about the Reapers, so just keep the base bro (high fives you)."

Explain to me how he knows "Harbinger is coming."  What, was he given this divine knowledge over loudspeaker?  I don't recall Harbinger stating that.  Is Shepard making this up?  Either way, that's what we're told.  Are you telling me he's coming with more Collectors?

So...does Shepherd know who or what Bioware is? Of course not. How the hell
would he know that there won't be a Suicide Mission 2.0?

Suicide Mission 2.0 = to stop the Collectors?  So we're not stopping the Reapers in ME3?  Oh, that'll be a great twist.  Definitely didn't see that coming.

Just because Bioware cannot repeat another suicide mission in ME3 is NOT a rational argument for keeping the base. This ranks up there with "I won't let fear compromise who I am" in terms of making absolutely NO SENSE. 

If it's a Suicide Mission to stop the Collectors, which as far as I can tell, have been stopped, then yeah that'd be kind of weird.  You see, you tell a story about a certain topic.  If you wish to tell another story, you do so.  You do not rehash what has come before.  I don't think I've ever seen a writer do this.

We could look at the main opposing force of ME1, which got exposition in ME2.  Turns out they're just a small fraction of what the real types of guys that are out there (true geth.)  In ME2, our main opposing force are the enigmatic Collectors.  I'm not saying ME3 won't have any exposition on them.  I'm saying the point of ME2 was to stop the Collectors from taking human colonies: they've been stopped from taking human colonies.

Again, Shepherd with his Infiltration team were sent in BLIND, with no intel. He pops up on the other side of the Omega 4 relay where he sees A (one) Collector base with A (one) Collector cruiser. Then TIM calls Shepherd mid-mission with his thumb up his **** and tells him to preserve the base, while providing no evidence that there aren't other Collectors running around the galaxy or that his normally inept lackeys can actually handle and secure such a facility.

And don't you think it would've been a really good lead in to the sequel, if TIM's conversation with Shepard involved a hint, or some data about other Collectors in the area/galaxy?  Because it seemed like Mission Accomplished, onto the real threat now.  The real threat being the Reapers, not the Collectors.

Ask any guy in the military what he/she would do in such a situation, provided that they can disobey a direct order. It's a no-brainer.

Sorry, what are you talking about?

[Lyrandori]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Cerberus is a woefully inept organization. Their most advanced projects can be undone by a single person. In ME1, Shepard unveiled that they have pitiful discipline and security procedures, poor training, and were arrogant to the point of being wiped out multiple times becaus they consistently underestimate their opponents. Their leader is a single minded sociopath with no thought to consequences, however dire they might be. They are the last group I'd want in control of that base.

Then too, the idea of trying to save the base is tactically idiotic. The Reapers built it. You know, those giant living machines who are out to kill us all? What good do you think wiping out all the organic life on the station would do? The Collectors may be dead, but that Proto-Reaper would have survived, and would have been around to slaugher anyone coming to the base if Shepard had left just a few minutes earlier. And that is completely discounting the possibility of booby traps, failsafes, or even simple indoctrination that might result from contact with that base.

Then too, the technology itself is useless. The Reapers themselves are extremely inefficient constructs. So we would learn, what, how to turn millions or even billions of humans into a single Reaper warship? Yeah, that's a useful technology. We can wipe out our own species to create a couple dozen human-controlled Reapers. Which, oh, by the way, would not stand a chance against the thousands we are pitted against. Or we could focus on building more of the ships we already have the technology for and which are already powerful enough to take on Reapers, while we analyze the wreckage of both the station and Sovereign. What good would knowing the manufacturing procedure get us, when it is a procedure that is painfully innefficient and would cost us far more than we would ever gain?

<3

[ME-ParaShep]

I don't trust TIM. The way he doesn't tell you about how he made the false Turian signal when you board the Collector Ship, the sly and devious look on his face during the cutscene, the way he DEEPLY suggests that you keep the Collector Base plus the way he beat around the bush to threaten you when you don't agree to save the base, and those mischievous look in his eyes. THOSE EYES! I don't like them at all! I played through the game 5 times and I never considered saving the base. When I talked to my squad mates after beating the suicide mission, they all were satisfied with my decision to destroy the base. The most interesting comment came from Samara when she said something like: "You made a wise decision to destroy the Collector Base. The Illusive Man may have the resources to control it, but he doesn't have the wisdom"

If you take Miranda with you to fight the Human-Reaper and when you decide to blow up the base, TIM orders Miranda to stop Shephard from destroying the base, I haven't tried this out with a non-loyal Miranda, but she says that she quit Cerberus because ultilizing the base is an act of treason. It made me feel really happy that she quit. Miranda was too good for that. It must've made TIM squirm when I shut him down in the last holo chat.. Oooh I detest TIM sooo much..

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

smudboy wrote...

A) If EDI can mine such information from the Collector Base, why can't she/it mine information that's relevant to defeating the Reapers? Why not just copy everything into a giant hard disk and book it? Why does Cerberus/TIM insist on keeping the base? No wait, lemme guess! You're intimately familiar with what EDI can and cannot do right? EDI can copy data on the Collectors but not data on the Reapers.

I only recall EDI getting a schematic of the base from scans, and 4 pictures of a Reaper.  She makes comments about what's in the center, aka, the Human Reaper Larva.  If the data or all information has been "mined", why would TIM then want to keep it?  I don't recall it being mined, but maybe I missed that.

Dude, you're intentionally missing my point. You brought up the possibility that EDI could've picked up info that confirmed that there is only one Collector base and only one Collector cruiser. If EDI could get that kind of info, why can't she get all the info in that base? The Collectors have to have the Reaper tech/schematics/how-to-build-a-Reaper somewhere, stored in some kind of computer. Which means that it can be copied.

It's not like the Collectors are building the human Reaper from memory.

smudboy wrote...
Explain to me how he knows "Harbinger is coming."  What, was he given this divine knowledge over loudspeaker?  I don't recall Harbinger stating that.  Is Shepard making this up?  Either way, that's what we're told.  Are you telling me he's coming with more Collectors?

Shepherd (and Miranda, and TIM, and the rest of the SR1 crew) knew that the Reapers were coming by the end of ME1 - by the end of ME2, he finds out that Harbinger is a Reaper. Then it's just simple logic a monkey can do:

Given: Reapers are coming
Given: Harbinger is a Reaper
Then: Harbinger is coming.

See what I did there?

smudboy wrote...

So...does Shepherd know who or what Bioware is? Of course not. How the hell
would he know that there won't be a Suicide Mission 2.0?

Suicide Mission 2.0 = to stop the Collectors?  So we're not stopping the Reapers in ME3?  Oh, that'll be a great twist.  Definitely didn't see that coming.

You're intentionally missing the point, and you know it. This is not a rational argument, the fact that ME3 probably won't have us fighting the Collectors in force again.

smudboy wrote...
If it's a Suicide Mission to stop the Collectors, which as far as I can tell, have been stopped, then yeah that'd be kind of weird.  You see, you tell a story about a certain topic.  If you wish to tell another story, you do so.  You do not rehash what has come before.  I don't think I've ever seen a writer do this.

That's fantastic. Explain to me how "storytelling" is a legitimate, rational reason to keep the base if you were Commander Shepherd?

smudboy wrote...

And don't you think it would've been a really good lead in to the sequel, if TIM's conversation with Shepard involved a hint, or some data about other Collectors in the area/galaxy?  Because it seemed like Mission Accomplished, onto the real threat now.  The real threat being the Reapers, not the Collectors.

Again, with the storytelling - the fact that this won't work for a sequel (ME3) is not valid reasoning. It's fine for the player (you and me) but it is not for Commander Shepherd (who is IN THE GAME). Do you not see this?

smudboy wrote...

Ask any guy in the military what he/she would do in such a situation, provided that they can disobey a direct order. It's a no-brainer.

Sorry, what are you talking about?

Go ask any REAL life military guy what he would do in Shepherd's shoes. Or have them play Mass Effect 2. See what their decision is.

[numotsbane]

cra5y pineapple wrote...

why do people destroy the collector base?

because its on the upper right hand side of the dialogue wheel?

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Shandepared wrote...

It has to do with the base being used for Reaper construction. Rational, logical people like myself see opportunity in this.

Rational and logical are not exactly the words I would use. Maybe you are. Can't say the same for the rest of your side.

[Cheese Elemental]

Shandepared wrote...

It has to do with the base being used for Reaper construction. Rational, logical people like myself see opportunity in this.

Rational, logical people don't get this worked up over a moral decision in a video game.

Seriously, calm down. You've got your head so far up your own arse that you can't even understand other people's rational arguments.

[FourSixEight]

Shandepared wrote...

It has to do with the base being used for Reaper construction. Rational, logical people like myself see opportunity in this. Fearful, naive, egostical, selfish people like you see only the chance to spite the Illusive Man.

TV Tropes, Fan Dumb wrote...

------------------------------------------------------

The Perfectionist: Like the Purist, the Perfectionist believes there is only one way to do things. However, whereas the Purist is hung up on a particular period, the Perfectionist is consumed with a particular way of enjoying the product; there is only one correct way to play this game, or listen to this music, or watch this film, and that's his way. Anyone who derives enjoyment of the product in a different way is wrong and must be lectured at length as to why they're enjoying it in the wrong way.
 
The Perfectionist is often seen in hating work by simply not giving it a chance, since they may be playing a game or using a piece of software and realize that it's not exactly like their favourite or something they've been playing with for awhile and then deride it as "mindless" while crying for their own preferred level of desirableness.

-----------------------------------------------

[smudboy]

Still not seeing a double standard here, but hey, let's go!

[quote]V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

[quote]smudboy wrote...

[quote]
A) If EDI can mine such information from the Collector Base, why can't she/it mine information that's relevant to defeating the Reapers? Why not just copy everything into a giant hard disk and book it? Why does Cerberus/TIM insist on keeping the base? No wait, lemme guess! You're intimately familiar with what EDI can and cannot do right? EDI can copy data on the Collectors but not data on the Reapers.
[/quote]
I only recall EDI getting a schematic of the base from scans, and 4 pictures of a Reaper.  She makes comments about what's in the center, aka, the Human Reaper Larva.  If the data or all information has been "mined", why would TIM then want to keep it?  I don't recall it being mined, but maybe I missed that.[/quote]

Dude, you're intentionally missing my point. You brought up the possibility that EDI could've picked up info that confirmed that there is only one Collector base and only one Collector cruiser. If EDI could get that kind of info, why can't she get all the info in that base? The Collectors have to have the Reaper tech/schematics/how-to-build-a-Reaper somewhere, stored in some kind of computer. Which means that it can be copied.

It's not like the Collectors are building the human Reaper from memory.
[/quote]
I brought up the possibility that EDI could've picked up info that confirmed that there is only one Collector Base and one Collector Cruiser.   I did?  Okay, well let's say I did.

Wait, what?  I think it's pretty obvious that the base is used to build Reapers, and such info would be present there.  Hence why she could keep the base, so we can learn about our enemy.  I'm in total agreement here.  But how this relates to there being more Cruisers and bases?  You lost me.

[quote]
[quote]smudboy wrote...
Explain to me how he knows "Harbinger is coming."  What, was he given this divine knowledge over loudspeaker?  I don't recall Harbinger stating that.  Is Shepard making this up?  Either way, that's what we're told.  Are you telling me he's coming with more Collectors?[/quote]

Shepherd (and Miranda, and TIM, and the rest of the SR1 crew) knew that the Reapers were coming by the end of ME1 - by the end of ME2, he finds out that Harbinger is a Reaper. Then it's just simple logic a monkey can do:

Given: Reapers are coming
Given: Harbinger is a Reaper
Then: Harbinger is coming.

See what I did there?
[/quote]
Shepard knew they were going to use the Citadel to teleport into the known galaxy.  Did they know they were doing FTL transit?  I don't think so.  Unless I missed it, either way, you can figure that out.

It's never stated explicitly that Harbinger is a Reaper.  I think he's a Reaper.  But I can't be sure.  Shepard thinks so, but he has no evidence.  All he has are "We are Harbinger."  The 3rd person omniscient view the audience gets implies he could be a Reaper (a la mini-hologram),  but Shepard has no clue.  It's just an educated guess.  I also can't be sure Harbinger's coming.  How does Shepard know this?  We see a picture of some Reapers at the end of the game, going...somewhere.  It looks like a galaxy.  It could be the Milky Way, but I'm not exactly sure what that background is.  Is it going to be soon?  Is it far?  When will they get here, if here is in fact where they're going to?  Reapers live indefinitely it seems, how soon is soon to a Reaper?  The sense of urgency is pretty much non existent if it's not, you know, clearly immediate.

[quote]
[quote]
[quote]smudboy wrote...
So...does Shepherd know who or what Bioware is? Of course not. How the hell
would he know that there won't be a Suicide Mission 2.0?
[/quote]
Suicide Mission 2.0 = to stop the Collectors?  So we're not stopping the Reapers in ME3?  Oh, that'll be a great twist.  Definitely didn't see that coming.[/quote]

You're intentionally missing the point, and you know it. This is not a rational argument, the fact that ME3 probably won't have us fighting the Collectors in force again.
[/quote]
So if we're not fighting the Collectors again in ME3, what's your argument?  That we didn't get all the Collectors in ME2?  What is your point then?

[quote]
[quote]smudboy wrote...
If it's a Suicide Mission to stop the Collectors, which as far as I can tell, have been stopped, then yeah that'd be kind of weird.  You see, you tell a story about a certain topic.  If you wish to tell another story, you do so.  You do not rehash what has come before.  I don't think I've ever seen a writer do this.[/quote]

That's fantastic. Explain to me how "storytelling" is a legitimate, rational reason to keep the base if you were Commander Shepherd?
[/quote]
1. Write a story about defeating bad guy A.
2. Write a continuation of that story learning how bad guy A wasn't defeated, and defeating bad guy A, again.

Why would a writer have the same end in the contiuation of a story?  There'd be no creative reasons to do so, and unless it's some weird kind of flash back from a different perspective...?  Now maybe you didn't completely defeat bad guy X, and we have a serialization of some kind of plot in story 1 that didn't explicitly state that bad guy X was defeated, which would've been bad writing/setup.  Unless there was an ambiguous ending, and the plan was to create a sequel, then I can see that.  But the ending is pretty clear.  Bad guy A is gone.  If there were any more, then the mission wasn't over, despite TIM's congratulations/disappointment over destroying the base.

[quote]
[quote]smudboy wrote...

And don't you think it would've been a really good lead in to the sequel, if TIM's conversation with Shepard involved a hint, or some data about other Collectors in the area/galaxy?  Because it seemed like Mission Accomplished, onto the real threat now.  The real threat being the Reapers, not the Collectors.[/quote]

Again, with the storytelling - the fact that this won't work for a sequel (ME3) is not valid reasoning. It's fine for the player (you and me) but it is not for Commander Shepherd (who is IN THE GAME). Do you not see this?
[/quote]
Yes, again, and always with the storytelling.  How else will I know?  I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.

The fact the narrative (psst: storytelling) doesn't say there are more Collectors, after you've defeated them, is a good indicator, considering the point of the story was to stop the Collectors.  If the point of the story was to only stop some of the Collectors, then the narrative (psst: storytelling) would've said so.  Like, TIM: "It turns out there are more bases out there, Shepard.  Are you a bad enough Cybernetic Zombie to Fight for the Lost, again?"©.  Now you're saying since there is no exposition by anyone, or nothing explicitly stated by EDI or whomever, that these are all the Collectors in existence, then there must be more?  Why?  What brings this about?

[quote]
[quote]smudboy wrote...[quote]
Ask any guy in the military what he/she would do in such a situation, provided that they can disobey a direct order. It's a no-brainer.
[/quote]
Sorry, what are you talking about?
[/quote]
Go ask any REAL life military guy what he would do in Shepherd's shoes. Or have them play Mass Effect 2. See what their decision is.
[/quote]
No seriously, what are you talking about?  I have no idea.

Modifié par smudboy, 15 juillet 2010 - 04:19 .

[mosor]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

mosor wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

mosor wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Rule #1 of War-
Never leave any enemy stronghold behind.

Wrong. Read Sun Tzu. The #1 rule of war is to know your enemy. Lets face it, you don't know much about the reapers. The base presents an opportunity.

The Art of War is the #1  rule about war in its entirety, and it says quite clearly that leaving a stronghold standing is a waiting disaster.

Aslo EDI datamined that place so we get data anyway (see datapad, and uploaded Schematics to TIM)

A bigger disaster is  fighting an enemy you know nothing about. Knowing your enemy is more important and supercedes leaving a base (which quite frankly you can destroy any time with another bomb).

You got to be kidding me with EDI downloading schematics right? How does knowing the layout of the collector base give you any hard intellegence about the reapers. The only thing you know absolutely certain EDI got was the floor plan. The potential to find far more useful info is greater with an intact base.

Yeah so you want to put money on cerberus going 5 days or 5 hours before they all end up dead and start it up again for the reapers?

Me I am putting down 5 minutes.

Also reading Saladhin battles are more than based around intelligence alone. Numbers, dispositon, morale, equipment,  positioning, suprise, and experience all give sway into a battles results. Intelligence is great to use on a foe, but it is not the only or most vital piece of the puzzle to a war.

I'm betting on never:) However, if I had control of the project, I'd simply put a real bomb where I put the radiation device earlier, and blow it up if they come back. It's no big deal.

Regarding last points.

How many reapers out there? Unknown
What equipment, weapons and defences reapers are known to possess? We just have the wreck of sovereign to study, and even if we had an intact ship, that info is minimal. We don't know if others possess different equipment.
Positioning in the galaxy/universe? Unknown. Dark space is pretty big
Element of suprise? Hard to do without concrete info.
Morale? Unknown. Working alone? We know of heretic geth that could still possibly exist. Thats it.

You need intelligence to know numbers.
You need intelligence to know disposition,
You need intelliegence to know enemy morale, intelligence helps boost your own morale
You need intelliegnce on their positioning or weaknesses to execute a suprise attack
You need intelligence on the equipment and defenses they carry.
With minimal experince of the enemy, you're going to need intelliegence to compensate.

So yes, intelliegnce is the most critical component in winning battles. A lot of that info is possible to find out in a base that has constructed reapers and has been in contact with them, Having a disaster strike while gaining that intel is well work the risk.

Modifié par mosor, 15 juillet 2010 - 04:47 .

[Ghostrider06]

Now you are in my world. I'm an intel analyst by trade. This is the same question as: do you kill an enemy or try to take them down by non-lethal means so that they can be questioned. The answer is: it depends on if you think they really have interesting information or not. Handing the base over to TIM? Afraid he's going to totally mess it up and become a dictator? Hmmm...Cuba, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan. We do it all the time. Yup, we always have to come back and clean up the messes, but they were beneficial for a time. Besides, maybe that's the whole point of ME3. Shepard gets to go back in and destroy Cerberus because TIM has gone off the deep end. Trust me, shadow organizations always fall prey to their own arrogance. Al Quaeda, Hezbollah, Yakuza,...they can all exist forever in the category of "international organizations" until they stick their heads out and actually try to affect the whole world in a a grand sweeping gesture. Cerberus is no different. If TIM continues to make small changes here and there...no problem. If he gets cocky & tries to do something big and bad with the base...Sheppard can come back in and clean them up. Besides, if I was Sheppard, I'd dig in deep with Cerberus and take over the whole organization from the inside anyway and give TIM the boot. Muahahaha!

[Mecha Tengu]

Reverse engineering is pretty good, when it comes to developping technology. The Soviets developped the first space rockets when they examined the German V2 rockets.



What really needs to happen to actually improve technology, is someone needs to spark a war to mobilize the galaxy and force scientists and engineers to work hard.



w/e, give Cerberus the base, TIM will probably screw up with it and lose all his personnel