3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Massadonious1]

Come ME3, I think I'm simply going to make decisions based on what Shand wouldn't do.

[tvih]

Freakaz0idx wrote...
By destroying the base you still have no evidence to show the Council or Alliance that the reapers are a threat. They have every reason to think that Shephard is a nutcase because we still haven't proven anything with solid evidence. Council space will be ill prepared when the reapers show up and they'll be slaughtered.

I thought about this point of view, too. However, given how thick-headed the Council is, I think they'd just chalk up the main threat having been the Collectors themselves, not a mass fleet of Reapers - i.e. they'd just chalk up the Sovereign as having been a Collector creation, and then they'd bury their heads in the sand again.

The readings etc from the derelict Reaper should already have proven that Sovereign is not an isolated incident, and that Reapers existed far before the Geth (I seem to recall them insisting on Sovereign actually being a Geth development) but with the base discovered, they'd probably still just blame it on the Collectors, whether you keep it or not.

Also it'd be one thing if you could hand over the base to the Council, then I'd have to think about the decision a bit more, but giving it to TIM... chances are he wouldn't let the Council races know about it and examine it anyway, therefore probably invalidating it as any sort of presentable proof.

[tvih]

Shandepared wrote...

tvih wrote...

...Yeah, and maybe read the rest of my post too? Doing that would rational and logical.

No, it would just be a waste of time.

Congrats, you just proved my point about you.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Ah, Shandepared, how I love thee.

[didymos1120]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

i'm playing from a different perspective... usually I blow the base... but i'll keep it on my 8th playthrough... just thinking in a perspective of collected people still being held captured and alive...

Those collected people were all dead. When you show up, they're just about to start dissolving the Normandy crew, and if you did too many missions, they're gonna be dead too. The only guaranteed exception is Chakwas.  Also: even if there were people still alive, if you choose to keep the base, they'll all die with the Collectors anyway thanks to the radiation pulse. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 16 juillet 2010 - 10:01 .

[lovgreno]

tvih wrote...Attacking people personally over their decisions and motivations in a video game certainly doesn't lend any credence to your views.

Also attacking and insulting strangers while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet is totaly cowardly and pointless as you can get away with anything when you don't have to talk face to face. It certanly doesn't say anything about the strangers you try to insult (usualy in vain) as you don't know them at all. It probably says more about the person insulting just as in real life. You know like how someone who calls someone else stupid or weak is almost always just trying to hide his own fear of being seen as stupid and weak. People with self confidence don't need to do this of course. Please note that I don't say that anyone of you are like this, I don't know you and therefore I don't want to jump to unfair conclusions.

[nov_pl]

Because TIM wouldn't use it just to fight reapers, first thing you know is that he's analyzing the base, the other is that he's fighting with council races to dominate them, or even kidnapping Turians, Asari or Salarians to create hes own Reaper of them.

[Markinator_123]

bobdouglas1982 wrote...

I blow it up almost everytime depanding if I am going paragon or renegade you don't know the long term effects it could have over you it might evn cause indoctrination over time. Even with everything dead in it could still be dangers lets not forget the derelict Reaper. The facts are you cant be 100% sure if it is safe and dicide to use and you wrong who knows what the consequences could be so to me it is not worth the risks

That is a poor reason to destroy the base. You are going have to face indoctrination sooner or later. It would be wise to try to understand how to counteract it. Shepard takes risks all the time. Besides, you take a risk with the krogan and the geth (in particularly Legion).

[Markinator_123]

nov_pl wrote...

Because TIM wouldn't use it just to fight reapers, first thing you know is that he's analyzing the base, the other is that he's fighting with council races to dominate them, or even kidnapping Turians, Asari or Salarians to create hes own Reaper of them.

You paragons can not come up with better reasons than this? Just think about what you're saying. The collectors were abducting human colonies left and right and their human reaper was no nowhere close to finished. What makes you think that Cerberus has that kind of manpower to abduct colonies like that? The approach would not be prudent and would be a complete waste of time.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

tvih wrote...

Freakaz0idx wrote...
By destroying the base you still have no evidence to show the Council or Alliance that the reapers are a threat. They have every reason to think that Shephard is a nutcase because we still haven't proven anything with solid evidence. Council space will be ill prepared when the reapers show up and they'll be slaughtered.

I thought about this point of view, too. However, given how thick-headed the Council is, I think they'd just chalk up the main threat having been the Collectors themselves, not a mass fleet of Reapers - i.e. they'd just chalk up the Sovereign as having been a Collector creation, and then they'd bury their heads in the sand again.

The readings etc from the derelict Reaper should already have proven that Sovereign is not an isolated incident, and that Reapers existed far before the Geth (I seem to recall them insisting on Sovereign actually being a Geth development) but with the base discovered, they'd probably still just blame it on the Collectors, whether you keep it or not.

Also it'd be one thing if you could hand over the base to the Council, then I'd have to think about the decision a bit more, but giving it to TIM... chances are he wouldn't let the Council races know about it and examine it anyway, therefore probably invalidating it as any sort of presentable proof.

didymos1120 wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

i'm playing from a different perspective... usually I blow the base... but i'll keep it on my 8th playthrough... just thinking in a perspective of collected people still being held captured and alive...

Those collected people were all dead. When you show up, they're just about to start dissolving the Normandy crew, and if you did too many missions, they're gonna be dead too. The only guaranteed exception is Chakwas.  Also: even if there were people still alive, if you choose to keep the base, they'll all die with the Collectors anyway thanks to the radiation pulse. 

well what that one guy said about having evidence about the reaper's existence... blowing the base is like destroying proof that they exist...yet keeping it, you could totally shove it in the face of that turian councilor... who can't dismiss the claims that your shepard actually did relevant work while working as a spectre who was privately sponsored by cerberus for extra support... 
besides... you don't have to look at it as keeping it for just cerberus... you can keep the galactic alliance's interest in mind aswell...

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:37 .

[didymos1120]

One thing I've been wondering is how much sensitive reaper data is really stored on the base or its systems.  Obviously, you'd still have the machinery and the structure itself available for study, and whatever is left of the Reaper Larva, but my suspicion is that you actually wouldn't find a bunch of reaper schematics or the like.  I can easily see the reapers just transmitting instructions directly to the Collector-General on an as-needed basis, and from there they would be disseminated directly to the drones doing the work.  Maybe they're just transmitted directly to Collector implants.  Whatever the method,  I highly doubt you'd find the equivalent of a copy of "Reaper Construction for Dummies" or "Build Your Own Indoctrination Device In 10 Easy Steps" or "A Compleat History Of The Reaper Peoples In Ten Volumes".

[FuturePasTimeCE]

didymos1120 wrote...

One thing I've been wondering is how much sensitive reaper data is really stored on the base or its systems.  Obviously, you'd still have the machinery and the structure itself available for study, and whatever is left of the Reaper Larva, but my suspicion is that you actually wouldn't find a bunch of reaper schematics or the like.  I can easily see the reapers just transmitting instructions directly to the Collector-General on an as-needed basis, and from there they would be disseminated directly to the drones doing the work.  Maybe they're just transmitted directly to Collector implants.  Whatever the method,  I highly doubt you'd find the equivalent of a copy of "Reaper Construction for Dummies" or "Build Your Own Indoctrination Device In 10 Easy Steps" or "A Compleat History Of The Reaper Peoples In Ten Volumes".

 I don't see how it's a renegade act for keeping it...

I can see blowing the geth network base(one of them, i'm sure the robots have more than one network center) during legion's loyalty mission... that's considered a renegade act (destroying a base of hostile forces that don't have any significant usage towards the galactic community/doesn't even have captured victims, meaning it doesn't have the hostage crisis leverage the collector base had), yet some pointless rewrite is a paragon act , vice versa with the collectors base... a EMP charge to perserve the base yet wipe out hostiles is a renegade, yet completely destroying vital information/evidence/base is a paragon...

keeping the base intact is like actually doing your damn job (for cerberus, and the alliance = multi-tasking)... I think the idea of promoting it's a good deed to destroy it is a act of reverse psychology/subtle manipulation (to actually manipulate the guy as to doing what someone ulteriorly intends/want to see anyways)...

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:46 .

[nov_pl]

Markinator_123 wrote...
You paragons can not come up with better reasons than this? Just think about what you're saying. The collectors were abducting human colonies left and right and their human reaper was no nowhere close to finished. What makes you think that Cerberus has that kind of manpower to abduct colonies like that? The approach would not be prudent and would be a complete waste of time.

So if Cerberus can't build a reaper there's no point of keeping the base anyway. People are alreadu using the Reapers technology. Ofc we could find sth more in the Collectors base, but you think thet giving the TIM tech that Shep wouldn't know about is a good idea? I just don't trust that guy. Yes, it would help in the war against the Reapers but I'm pretty sure it may cause a war in the Galaxy, and Cerberus isn't a organization that I'd like to see dominating in Milky Way.

[smudboy]

nov_pl wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...
You paragons can not come up with better reasons than this? Just think about what you're saying. The collectors were abducting human colonies left and right and their human reaper was no nowhere close to finished. What makes you think that Cerberus has that kind of manpower to abduct colonies like that? The approach would not be prudent and would be a complete waste of time.

So if Cerberus can't build a reaper there's no point of keeping the base anyway. People are alreadu using the Reapers technology. Ofc we could find sth more in the Collectors base, but you think thet giving the TIM tech that Shep wouldn't know about is a good idea? I just don't trust that guy. Yes, it would help in the war against the Reapers but I'm pretty sure it may cause a war in the Galaxy, and Cerberus isn't a organization that I'd like to see dominating in Milky Way.

[Markinator_123]

smudboy wrote...

nov_pl wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...
You paragons can not come up with better reasons than this? Just think about what you're saying. The collectors were abducting human colonies left and right and their human reaper was no nowhere close to finished. What makes you think that Cerberus has that kind of manpower to abduct colonies like that? The approach would not be prudent and would be a complete waste of time.

So if Cerberus can't build a reaper there's no point of keeping the base anyway. People are alreadu using the Reapers technology. Ofc we could find sth more in the Collectors base, but you think thet giving the TIM tech that Shep wouldn't know about is a good idea? I just don't trust that guy. Yes, it would help in the war against the Reapers but I'm pretty sure it may cause a war in the Galaxy, and Cerberus isn't a organization that I'd like to see dominating in Milky Way.

Pretty silly reasoning isn't it? Once again, people's mistrust of the Illusive man, cloud their minds from seeing the big picture.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Shandepared wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

One thing I've been wondering is how much sensitive reaper data is really stored on the base or its systems.  Obviously, you'd still have the machinery and the structure itself available for study, and whatever is left of the Reaper Larva, but my suspicion is that you actually wouldn't find a bunch of reaper schematics or the like.  I can easily see the reapers just transmitting instructions directly to the Collector-General on an as-needed basis, and from there they would be disseminated directly to the drones doing the work.  Maybe they're just transmitted directly to Collector implants.  Whatever the method,  I highly doubt you'd find the equivalent of a copy of "Reaper Construction for Dummies" or "Build Your Own Indoctrination Device In 10 Easy Steps" or "A Compleat History Of The Reaper Peoples In Ten Volumes".

If you keep the base you won't need to speculate like this.

don't forget you have to deal with this guy... and likely need all the proof/evidence you can get your hands on... such as keeping a ****ing intact collector's base of protheans, who're enslaved by the "ah yes, ""Reapers""..."

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Markinator_123 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

nov_pl wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...
You paragons can not come up with better reasons than this? Just think about what you're saying. The collectors were abducting human colonies left and right and their human reaper was no nowhere close to finished. What makes you think that Cerberus has that kind of manpower to abduct colonies like that? The approach would not be prudent and would be a complete waste of time.

So if Cerberus can't build a reaper there's no point of keeping the base anyway. People are alreadu using the Reapers technology. Ofc we could find sth more in the Collectors base, but you think thet giving the TIM tech that Shep wouldn't know about is a good idea? I just don't trust that guy. Yes, it would help in the war against the Reapers but I'm pretty sure it may cause a war in the Galaxy, and Cerberus isn't a organization that I'd like to see dominating in Milky Way.

Pretty silly reasoning isn't it? Once again, people's mistrust of the Illusive man, cloud their minds from seeing the big picture.

Right, like you guys come up with consistently rational arguments.

BTW, please explain to me why Shepherd has to face the issue of indoctrination sooner or later. Are we planning to board the Reapers and have tea with them when they arrive from Dark Space? Maybe watch a movie in their first class VIP rooms?

Everything so far indicates that indoctrination works only if you're on a Reaper ship, for extended periods of time. If Shepherd isn't going to be on a Reaper for that long, why even worry about indoctrination?

[LorDC]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...
Everything so far indicates that indoctrination works only if you're on a Reaper ship, for extended periods of time. If Shepherd isn't going to be on a Reaper for that long, why even worry about indoctrination? 

Then why apologists of base destruction always pull out the "omg base will indoctrinate research teams and it will go to hell" argument?

[JaegerBane]

Shandepared wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

And yet we needed to understand the prothean's language and code to understand their technology

When? The beacon you mean? That was a Prothean message meant for a Prothean mind. A book you might say. However to figure out how an actual beacon works or a force field we don't need to know their language, only the natural principals that their technology is designed around.

No. I mean the technological cache found on Mars that brought human tech up to the level of Citadel technology. The same cache that was only exploited after a year long effort of translation.

It's described in detail in Mass Effect: Revelation. Humanity only began to reap the benefits of prothean tech once we understood the documentation, so to speak.

There is no sensible justification why we'd somehow just dispense with this stage on tech that's significantly more advanced.

[JaegerBane]

Markinator_123 wrote...
Pretty silly reasoning isn't it? Once again, people's mistrust of the Illusive man, cloud their minds from seeing the big picture.

I love it how a common argument in favour of keeping the base tries to paint any counter-argument as based around emotion and overreaction and constantly refer to the 'big picture'.

The 'big picture' is that Cerberus' track record of judgement, failures and inability to either plan fo or recognise potential consequences of their projects are a matter of fact, not emotion. TIM has repeatedly shown that he places progress and wishful thinking ahead of practicality and common sense.

Perhaps those in a hurry to trust this guy should practice what they preach and look at the big picture themselves. TIM's intentions might be kosher, but his methods often result in terrible collateral damage - so bad, in fact, that they end up defeating the object of the effort.

Besides, this idea that we'd somehow manage to out-tech the Reapers in time is a complete pipedream. Species far more advanced than the current galactic community failed to handle the Reapers. Everytime we have caused them setbacks, it's been because we've out-played them, not brought bigger guns to the table.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 16 juillet 2010 - 03:07 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

JaegerBane wrote...

I love it how anyone in favour of keeping the base tries to paint any counter-argument as based around emotion and overreaction and constantly refer to the 'big picture'.

The 'big picture' is that Cerberus' track record of judgement, failures and inability to either plan fo or recognise potential consequences of their projects are a matter of fact, not emotion. TIM has repeatedly shown that he places progress and wishful thinking ahead of practicality and common sense.

Perhaps those in a hurry to trust this guy should practice what they preach and look at the big picture themselves. TIM's intentions might be kosher, but his methods often result in terrible collateral damage - so bad, in fact, that they end up defeating the object of the effort.

Besides, this idea that we'd somehow manage to out-tech the Reapers in time is a complete pipedream. Species far more advanced than the current galactic community failed to handle the Reapers. Everytime we have caused them setbacks, it's been because we've out-played them, not brought bigger guns to the table.

No. The big picture is the Reapers' threat to life in the galaxy. Shepard's goal needs to be to defeat the Reapers, not defeat the Reapers with only the allies he cares for.