3478 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

I think Renegade and Paragon boil down to Lawful and Chaotic on the Old D&D system.



Renegades will throw out rules and laws to get the job done.- ie Malcolm Reynolds

Paragons follow a code and have lines they wont cross ever.- ie Dudley Do Right.



Simply put Renegades believe in direct action and an anything goes plan, while Paragons believe in rules and laws and that they help a situation.

[Sniper11709]

lovgreno wrote...

tvih wrote... For me it kind of boils down to whether to destroy The One Ring, or to keep it and try to use it for good.

Interesting comparasion, especialy considering the very high risk of indoctrination. A indoctrinated Cerberus that gives the reapers back their base plus a lot of information and contacts are not a thing you should risk if you don't know there is something absolutely necesary for the coming war in that base. And all we know is in that base is a fried and radiated reaper larva, dito collectors, dito the collectors biomachinery and a nearby  black hole. Possibly (probably I would say) it may also the usual reaper indoctrination booby
traps, a backdoor for possible collector reinforcements and who knows what else the reapers have come up with as a defence mechanism.

Actually i would have made the comparison between the Taint in the Gray Wardens from DA rather then One Ring. The only problem being that because Bioware gave you a choice in this one then you won't lose because you destroyed the base.

The One Ring is singular and not all that powerful to anyone but Sauron (spelling is wrong i think). it gave the power of invisibility which in not really capable of changing the outcome of a war all by itself.

The Taint made the Wardens capable of destroying the Archdemons, gave them the ability to sense darkspawn and in return it shortens their lives, warned the darkspawn when you were coming and some other things i can't remeber.

If the base was going to be rendered useless by a radiation pulse i doubt TIM would have requested that you do it, They already have examples of collector tech and thus you would hope they would know about radiation destroying it.

Some of your concerns are a tad "silly" (best word i could think of).

If Collector reinforcments can come through it then you want to have it so you know about them and can get back at them, if the trap door goes one way then it would most likely go the other as well.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 16 juillet 2010 - 09:38 .

[lovgreno]

Even if the Council would have reasonable reasons to keep denying it would become a bit too silly if they used that plotdevice again.

[didymos1120]

Shandepared wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

One thing I've been wondering is how much sensitive reaper data is really stored on the base or its systems.  Obviously, you'd still have the machinery and the structure itself available for study, and whatever is left of the Reaper Larva, but my suspicion is that you actually wouldn't find a bunch of reaper schematics or the like.  I can easily see the reapers just transmitting instructions directly to the Collector-General on an as-needed basis, and from there they would be disseminated directly to the drones doing the work.  Maybe they're just transmitted directly to Collector implants.  Whatever the method,  I highly doubt you'd find the equivalent of a copy of "Reaper Construction for Dummies" or "Build Your Own Indoctrination Device In 10 Easy Steps" or "A Compleat History Of The Reaper Peoples In Ten Volumes".

If you keep the base you won't need to speculate like this.

Well, I personally do because I'm just a guy playing a video game that ends before we learn what's actually in the base, should we decide to keep it.  In game, Shep doesn't really know anything on that score at the point of decision, and it's still going to take time to explore the base and itemize its contents, digital or otherwise. That time has not passed as of the moment Shep stares through the gap in the hull toward the rim of the galaxy. So, yes: speculation still currently required.

[Giggles_Manically]

Actually the one ring amplified who ever wore it. Hobbits and common folk gained invisibility and other acute abilities like slower aging. While people like Gandalf would become many times more powerful. While Sauron would become nigh on invincible with it.



Very good comparison really. TIM may be seeking a `good` end with the base, but quite possibly it can backfire and help the reapers like the ring would help Sauron. Also with such power people may not just leave it alone after the Reaper battle and would result in more trouble later, ie the temptation the ring uses on people.

[lovgreno]

The ring was made to serve Sauron. No one could resist it's infuence for long. It slowly but surely made everyone think they could do good with it but in the end they would only become slaves to Sauron.

In the same way indoctrination exists only to make people slaves to the reapers.

[Sniper11709]

Tighue wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

Tighue wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

...

you want to have as much hypothetical evidence as possible... legion can even count as being proof of the heretics/reapers... a intact collector's base, etc....

Honestly, I doubt the Council would get past the fact that Shepard attacked an unknown quantity operating in the Terminus Systems. They've all but labeled Shepard a fanatic for pushing the reaper issue. It's difficult to imagine any justification for the Omega-4 relay mission that includes the word "reapers" going over well.

Why would they mention Reapers? Maybe i'm missing part of this conversation (went back and checked what i could) but Shepard has already been burned by the Council so many times that i doubt Reapers would come up in anything official, what would most likely be used is that the Collectors were the ones attacking colonys and thus Shepard neutrilized them.

I think FuturePasTimeCE was suggesting that the base could be offered to the Council as proof that the reapers exist.

Well if the Council examined the base then they would hopefully find evidence that they were the ones attacking the colonies. So they would most likely dismiss Shepard as not entirely there when ever he brought up Reapers
so i doubt that they would react badly, not the way Shepard would have hoped but not badly.

Then again if he could find proof that the Collectors were Protheans then he could prove that Soverign was not a Geth dreadnaught (due to the fact that the Collectors were making another one) and was in fact much older, which may get them to bend on the Reaper denials a bit.

[Sniper11709]

lovgreno wrote...

The ring was made to serve Sauron. No one could resist it's infuence for long. It slowly but surely made everyone think they could do good with it but in the end they would only become slaves to Sauron.
In the same way indoctrination exists only to make people slaves to the reapers.

Yeah the problem is destroying the Base is not the same as destroying the Ring, Destroying the ring neutrilzed Sauron ending that threat while destroying the Base means there is no risk but at the same time no reward.

[lovgreno]

Sniper11709 wrote..
Some of your concerns are a tad "silly" (best word i could think of).

Sure, silly is fair enough.
Perhaps I could have explained my arguments better. But my point is: We don't want them to retake the base. As Shepard have no idea if the radiation wave worked as intended and what threats may be left behind there is a strong risk that Harbringer will assume controll again. Better to explode it than letting Harb have it back. If we knew that there was something usefull there it might be worth the risk anyway, but we don't realy know much at all about it.
If someone thinks I am overly cautious that is quite fair, I can live with that.

[lovgreno]

Sniper11709 wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

The ring was made to serve Sauron. No one could resist it's infuence for long. It slowly but surely made everyone think they could do good with it but in the end they would only become slaves to Sauron.
In the same way indoctrination exists only to make people slaves to the reapers.

Yeah the problem is destroying the Base is not the same as destroying the Ring, Destroying the ring neutrilzed Sauron ending that threat while destroying the Base means there is no risk but at the same time no reward.

The reward is that one risk is eliminated and that the enemy have one base that they can't retake.

[Sniper11709]

lovgreno wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

The ring was made to serve Sauron. No one could resist it's infuence for long. It slowly but surely made everyone think they could do good with it but in the end they would only become slaves to Sauron.
In the same way indoctrination exists only to make people slaves to the reapers.

Yeah the problem is destroying the Base is not the same as destroying the Ring, Destroying the ring neutrilzed Sauron ending that threat while destroying the Base means there is no risk but at the same time no reward.

The reward is that one risk is eliminated and that the enemy have one base that they can't retake.

Yeah, again not the best phrasing , ok how about "no major risk but at the same time no major reward"


I'll respond to your other post here so i don't clutter up the thread more then i have.

Perhaps I could have explained my arguments better. But my point is: We
don't want them to retake the base. As Shepard have no idea if the
radiation wave worked as intended and what threats may be left behind
there is a strong risk that Harbringer will assume controll again.
Better to explode it than letting Harb have it back. If we knew that
there was something usefull there it might be worth the risk anyway, but
we don't realy know much at all about it.
If someone thinks I am
overly cautious that is quite fair, I can live with that.

Most of my ideas when it comes to keeping the base differ mostly becasue i have a different idea firmly in my head i think. The idea is that we are already so far up **** creek that even if having the base was as bad as having an antimatter bomb with a containment system that fails if it was breathed on particularly hard it still couldn't make the **** any deeper.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 16 juillet 2010 - 10:18 .

[lovgreno]

Sniper11709 wrote...The idea is that we are already so far up **** creek that even if having the base was as bad as having an antimatter bomb with a containment system that fails if it was breathed on particularly hard it still couldn't make the **** any deeper.

That is quite hard to debate against.Then again life has learned me that it can always get worse.

[didymos1120]

Sniper11709 wrote...
Well if the Council examined the base then they would hopefully find evidence that they were the ones attacking the colonies.

That's not even in dispute anymore.  Kaidan/Ash were specifically sent out to try an verify the Collectors' involvement, and that's exactly what was reported back to the Council (it was after all the human councilor who told you they were on a classified mission).

[mrc390]

It depends on if the collector ship has the same effect on people that sovereign had,if so then it could lead to the downfall of the human race,if not then it will probably finally stop the reapers

[Sniper11709]

didymos1120 wrote...

Sniper11709 wrote...
Well if the Council examined the base then they would hopefully find evidence that they were the ones attacking the colonies.

That's not even in dispute anymore.  Kaidan/Ash were specifically sent out to try an verify the Collectors' involvement, and that's exactly what was reported back to the Council (it was after all the human councilor who told you they were on a classified mission).

Kaidan/Ash were sent to verify reports that Cerberus was behind the attacks and that Shepard was working with them, that information was leaked by TIM so that Kaidan/Ash would get involved to lure the Collectors to Horizon..

I don't recall anything after Horizon stating that the Council believed it was the Collectors.

[Giggles_Manically]

Considering it seems that outside of Shep the rest of the galaxy cant do anything besides chant "COUNCIL/HUMANITY/CERBERUS/"INSERT RANDOM FACTION" FOREVER!" I really dont feel combefertable leaving the base in the hands of any SINGLE group since invaribly the temptation would be to use it for your own ends over the rest of the galaxy. Since that is what any of them would do anyway.



Also since Cerberus is the group that would:

A) Toss a Eezo laced bomb into an orphanage, then blame Batarians

Pretend to be aiding them, but really be running tests and then kidnap survivors.

C) Torture/Mutilate/Horrificaly experiment on any person who luckily develpod Biotics and not cancer or a mutation that kills them.

D) If results aint forthcoming, wipe out any survivors and move on, all while claiming that it was for the good of the world.



Although Cerberus did not create human biotics, since Shep is a natural occuring one most likely (colonial/spacer most definently, Earthborn possible exposure) Jacob, and Miranda's were genetically written into her. Exposure to radiation in 99% of cases kills, causes cancer, or fatal mutations. If you have to kill 990 people to produce like 10 possible Biotics, thats a little far.

[MadInfiltrator]

Did anyone else think it was way cooler just to blow it up? That was my reasoning.

Boooommm..........

[Giggles_Manically]

Si Senior MadInfiltrator tis not an epic ending without an epic splosion. Although they did seem to just recolour the rad pulse instead of do an new animation.

[MadInfiltrator]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Si Senior MadInfiltrator tis not an epic ending without an epic splosion. Although they did seem to just recolour the rad pulse instead of do an new animation.

It looked pretty sick. And when I escape narrowly, after crushing my enemies under my heel, then I definitely need to be followed by an explosion extraordinare.

[Sniper11709]

MadInfiltrator wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Si Senior MadInfiltrator tis not an epic ending without an epic splosion. Although they did seem to just recolour the rad pulse instead of do an new animation.

It looked pretty sick. And when I escape narrowly, after crushing my enemies under my heel, then I definitely need to be followed by an explosion extraordinare.

Following this line of reasoning can i watch as the Reapers slowly grind your corpse into oblivion after you lose because you failed to keep the base. After all if the explosion from the base was nice i wonder what your pyre would look like.

and by the way i'm joking.

Modifié par Sniper11709, 17 juillet 2010 - 01:43 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Sniper11709 wrote...

MadInfiltrator wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Si Senior MadInfiltrator tis not an epic ending without an epic splosion. Although they did seem to just recolour the rad pulse instead of do an new animation.

It looked pretty sick. And when I escape narrowly, after crushing my enemies under my heel, then I definitely need to be followed by an explosion extraordinare.

Following this line of reasoning can i watch as the Reapers slowly grind your corpse into oblivion after you lose because you failed to keep the base. After all if the explosion from the base was nice i wonder what your pyre would look like.

and by the way i'm joking.

Knowing Bioware and how games are going all we probably are going to get is a slightly different quest line to follow with dialouge lines that change slightly on your choices and the exact same end at the concluseon.

[lovgreno]

Sniper11709 wrote...

Following this line of reasoning can i watch as the Reapers slowly grind your corpse into oblivion after you lose because you failed to keep the base. After all if the explosion from the base was nice i wonder what your pyre would look like.

and by the way i'm joking.

Or perhaps I can look at you being eaten by TIMmys husks, fresh from the base you failed to destroy? Oh well, time will tell I suppose.

And by the way I'm also only joking of course. We are not among those who needs to mock those with different opinions to strenghten their weak self esteem right?

This is not intended as a flame war, just a friendly joke.

Modifié par lovgreno, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:15 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I am just not coming back here anymore since it seems to be a flame war at the moment. See you guys later I will go back to my Engineer run for now.



Also I am going to blow the base again... tootles!