raptor1906 wrote...
Why do you all see the Illusive Man as a terriost? Last time i checked theres a huge difference between B-L-A-C-K O-P-S and T-E-R-R-O-I-S-M. If it promises Humanity supremecy im willing to take the risk. Humanity has earned it
marlon brando is not a terrorist...
Freakaz0idx wrote...
My reason's for blowing it up is because you can make an argument that the Illusive man is indoctrinated. He'll continue
FuturePasTimeCE wrote...
raptor1906 wrote...
Why do you all see the Illusive Man as a terriost? Last time i checked theres a huge difference between B-L-A-C-K O-P-S and T-E-R-R-O-I-S-M. If it promises Humanity supremecy im willing to take the risk. Humanity has earned it
Giggles_Manically wrote...
I thought that getting indoctrinated made you incredibly stupid? Or is it a limited amount makes you an unwitting pawn like Saren/Benezia and then the longer it lasts or the deeper it goes the less you can function?
Modifié par Sniper11709, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:25 .
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
I thought that getting indoctrinated made you incredibly stupid? Or is it a limited amount makes you an unwitting pawn like Saren/Benezia and then the longer it lasts or the deeper it goes the less you can function?
The less free will you have the more stupid you get is how it works from what i remember.
Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:26 .
lovgreno wrote...
Or perhaps I can look at you being eaten by TIMmys husks, fresh from the base you failed to destroy? Oh well, time will tell I suppose.Sniper11709 wrote...
Following this line of reasoning can i watch as the Reapers slowly grind your corpse into oblivion after you lose because you failed to keep the base. After all if the explosion from the base was nice i wonder what your pyre would look like.
and by the way i'm joking.
And by the way I'm also only joking of course. We are not among those who needs to mock those with different opinions to strenghten their weak self esteem right?
This is not intended as a flame war, just a friendly joke.
Modifié par Sniper11709, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:30 .
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
I thought that getting indoctrinated made you incredibly stupid? Or is it a limited amount makes you an unwitting pawn like Saren/Benezia and then the longer it lasts or the deeper it goes the less you can function?
The less free will you have the more stupid you get is how it works from what i remember.
Oh so the only Reason Saren wasent drooling was because he thought he was doing it for the right reason and was semi willing. That clears that up at least.
I doubt that TIM is indoctrinated he is far from naive or stupid, so he wont fall into a Saren situation, at least not intentionally.
Modifié par Sniper11709, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:31 .
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
I thought that getting indoctrinated made you incredibly stupid? Or is it a limited amount makes you an unwitting pawn like Saren/Benezia and then the longer it lasts or the deeper it goes the less you can function?
The less free will you have the more stupid you get is how it works from what i remember.
Oh so the only Reason Saren wasent drooling was because he thought he was doing it for the right reason and was semi willing. That clears that up at least.
I doubt that TIM is indoctrinated he is far from naive or stupid, so he wont fall into a Saren situation, at least not intentionally.
Actually it is highly possible that he is indoctrinated, at least to small degree which just giving him nudges in the direction the Reapers want.
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
I thought that getting indoctrinated made you incredibly stupid? Or is it a limited amount makes you an unwitting pawn like Saren/Benezia and then the longer it lasts or the deeper it goes the less you can function?
The less free will you have the more stupid you get is how it works from what i remember.
Oh so the only Reason Saren wasent drooling was because he thought he was doing it for the right reason and was semi willing. That clears that up at least.
I doubt that TIM is indoctrinated he is far from naive or stupid, so he wont fall into a Saren situation, at least not intentionally.
Actually it is highly possible that he is indoctrinated, at least to small degree which just giving him nudges in the direction the Reapers want.
But TIM knows the risks of Reaper tech pretty well and I thought you had to be near it to get indoctrinated? Its not like he keeps it on his coffee table.. cough Firewalker cough.
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
Sniper11709 wrote...
Giggles_Manically wrote...
I thought that getting indoctrinated made you incredibly stupid? Or is it a limited amount makes you an unwitting pawn like Saren/Benezia and then the longer it lasts or the deeper it goes the less you can function?
The less free will you have the more stupid you get is how it works from what i remember.
Oh so the only Reason Saren wasent drooling was because he thought he was doing it for the right reason and was semi willing. That clears that up at least.
I doubt that TIM is indoctrinated he is far from naive or stupid, so he wont fall into a Saren situation, at least not intentionally.
Actually it is highly possible that he is indoctrinated, at least to small degree which just giving him nudges in the direction the Reapers want.
But TIM knows the risks of Reaper tech pretty well and I thought you had to be near it to get indoctrinated? Its not like he keeps it on his coffee table.. cough Firewalker cough.
He knows of the risks of Indoctrination now, what happens if it turns out he was indoctrinated pre-Cerberus, there is a comic coming out about that period next year.
Actualy that sounds like a typical Cerberus project. The question is: How fast can a husk eat a redshirt scientist? I can imagine TIMmy watching the video from yet another science project being eaten by their own experiments and taking notes.Sniper11709 wrote...
Don't forget the camera i'm sure there's a few wildlife programs willing to pay for it.
Modifié par lovgreno, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:53 .
I doubt he would actualy put himself in the risk of being exposed to reaper tech personaly. There is no need for him to do something like for example, putting a reaper artifact on his coffey table to impress dates.Sniper11709 wrote...
Actually it is highly possible that he is indoctrinated, at least to a small degree which is just giving him nudges in the direction the Reapers want, nothing that he wouldn't do on his own.
lovgreno wrote...
I doubt he would actualy put himself in the risk of being exposed to reaper tech personaly. There is no need for him to do something like for example, putting a reaper artifact on his coffey table to impress dates.Sniper11709 wrote...
Actually it is highly possible that he is indoctrinated, at least to a small degree which is just giving him nudges in the direction the Reapers want, nothing that he wouldn't do on his own.
But he seems like a good candidate to become a new Saren. They was both fierciely idealistic and arrogant wich was what made Saren a easy victim for Sovereigns indoctrination.
George Silver wrote...
Well I blew up the base because of what Mordin said about species not being ready for some tech and I agree. Keeping the Collector base would definitely start some kind of war over it. The Alliance would never allow Cerberus to keep it if they found out, Cerberus would use it to force the Alliance to do whatever they want, if the Turians or Salarians found out, it would possibly be a galaxy-wide war over it.
Now blowing it up doesn't give us huge leaps in tech, but now there is a small option of getting everyone ,including Cerberus possibly, to unite against the Reapers since there is nothing to gain by going against each other. And afterward there would be no huge conflict over Reaper tech since it would be floating around everywhere, if we win of course.
Modifié par Sniper11709, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:40 .
Giggles_Manically wrote...
So its only the level of indoctrination that affects a person not the period of it so much it seems.
Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds, "reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods. The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.
Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind. Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents. A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.
Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years.
Modifié par didymos1120, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:46 .
Sniper11709 wrote...
Kaidan/Ash were sent to verify reports that Cerberus was behind the attacks and that Shepard was working with them, that information was leaked by TIM so that Kaidan/Ash would get involved to lure the Collectors to Horizon..
I don't recall anything after Horizon stating that the Council believed it was the Collectors.
didymos1120 wrote...
Sniper11709 wrote...
Kaidan/Ash were sent to verify reports that Cerberus was behind the attacks and that Shepard was working with them, that information was leaked by TIM so that Kaidan/Ash would get involved to lure the Collectors to Horizon..
I don't recall anything after Horizon stating that the Council believed it was the Collectors.
That's right, they do say that's why they were there. However, they can raise the possibility that Cerberus is working with the Collectors in that conversation, depending on which options you pick. And, they will always say they're going to report back to the Citadel, and that "they can decide if your story checks ot or not" (Kaidan) or "I'll let them decide if they believe your story or not." Both are clearly referring to the Council, as I see it. If the info was just going to the Alliance they would have said they had to report back to the Alliance or Admiral So-and-so or whatever.
Anyway, what it was is that I was getting what Ash/Kaidan says mixed up with what Anderson says. If you talk to him after Horizon, he'll say that the Collector story checks out:
Given that he's a Councilor, I think it's safe to say the Council knows the Collectors were responsible. That's with Anderson, though. I've never had a playthrough with Udina as Councilor or with the ME1 Council killed, so I can't say if this is one of those things that's true no matter what choices you've made, and will be mentioned by whoever happens to be Councilor.
Still, regardless of what happens in the alternate ME2 timelines, I really doubt that Ash/Kaidan just somehow failed to mention what happened there. Like, you know, a bunch of Collectors running around and putting humans in cargo pods, and then making off with half the colony. And even if the alternate-reality Council still thinks Cerberus might be involved somehow, they know that the Collectors are.
Many would disagree with that notion. In many cases they both are one and the same. Part of the reason Black Ops are secret because of the morally questionable actions the black operators commit on civilian populations.raptor1906 wrote...
Why do you all see the Illusive Man as a terriost? Last time i checked theres a huge difference between B-L-A-C-K O-P-S and T-E-R-R-O-I-S-M. If it promises Humanity supremecy im willing to take the risk. Humanity has earned it
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