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[Asheer_Khan]

Cerberus in only active party in ME 2 ONLY because lead writer is in love whit TiM and his reapers blue eyes...



Seriously... i start to wonder if my decisions in C-base (blown her up and "quit job" for Cerbeus) will be actually RESPECTED by mr walters...

[Costin_Razvan]

Just because you blow the base doesn't mean you don't work for Cerberus anymore, regardless of how you feel about it.

ONLY because lead writer is in love whit TiM and his reapers blue eyes...

Right, if you think the decision to use TIM as a mentor is only because of the love of ONE writer ( even if he is lead writer ) then you are simply wrong. Bioware always uses mentor figures for their games and TIM is such a person.



As for not working with Cerberus in ME3, just consider this: If it happens like that then Bioware would need to give you a new mentor, say Anderson but that would mean creating different scenes recording different lines spending a lot more money for those that destroy the base as opposed to those that keep it and continue working with TIM ( since there is very little to no reason for those that do keep the base to not continue working with him ), so consider that.

[Asheer_Khan]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Just because you blow the base doesn't mean you don't work for Cerberus anymore, regardless of how you feel about it.

ONLY because lead writer is in love whit TiM and his reapers blue eyes...

Right, if you think the decision to use TIM as a mentor is only because of the love of ONE writer ( even if he is lead writer ) then you are simply wrong. Bioware always uses mentor figures for their games and TIM is such a person.

As for not working with Cerberus in ME3, just consider this: If it happens like that then Bioware would need to give you a new mentor, say Anderson but that would mean creating different scenes recording different lines spending a lot more money for those that destroy the base as opposed to those that keep it and continue working with TIM ( since there is very little to no reason for those that do keep the base to not continue working with him ), so consider that.

Yes... that's exactly what i am afraid of...

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...


No. In fact a lot of the whole "lack of evidence" argument hinged on the fact that they only recovered very small pieces.

Yes, because the Council apparently wasn't able to manage the recovery very well. Each Council race grabbed what it could and hid it from the others. What makes you think the Collector base or derelict Reaper would be any different? Not to mention with the derelict Reaper they'd run into indoctrination. When it comes to the Collector base it is an incredibly inconvenient asset to acquire. How would they get enough ships and personnel that deep into the Terminus? They'd probably blow you off.

Even if they didn't... it wouldn't prove the Reapers are real. What you need to do is prove that there is a massive fleet of these things waiting in dark space. How will you do that? The Collector base and derelict Reaper don't necessarily prove the existence of that fleet.

Shepard's reliability has been called into question. S/he has been discredited.

Making wild claims while putting forth absolutely no evidence is completely ineffectual and only reinforces this image.

Saying, "The Reapers are real; here, look at this," and showing them the derelict Reaper is much better. It at least gives the impression Shepard is at least trying to be reasonable and give the Council some evidence.

Not only would the Council be able to see that indoctrination is real, but there has to be tons of data that could be mined from that Reaper. Legion went there specifically to study that data.

[Nightwriter]

The Reaper IFF might. And so would the data onboard said Reaper.

Learning that the Reapers can control mass relays at will - that they have the keys to the Omega 4 Relay - would be a big step in the right direction in convincing the Council they need to take a second look at their assumptions.

[Nightwriter]

The Protheans could indoctrinate, could they? The Protheans created husks, did they? The Protheans have engineered a starship which predates the founding of their empire, have they?

[Terraneaux]

Shandepared wrote...

It'd be better but it still wouldn't convince them.

The fact that the council is pathologically stupid with regard to the reaper issue, and that they were retconned to not believe in them at the beginning of ME2, was a plot device to force the player to work with TIM.  It was poorly handled, and it stretches the bounds of suspension of belief.  

[lovgreno]

Thus far the Council have had decent reasons to belive Shepards uproven threats but it would be silly if the Council could never be convinced about the reapers. They are not stupid.

[Mindless_Prey]

Here's my reason why I fried the base.

The Illusive Man is a sketchy dude. He's the head of CERBERUS!  

And call me crazy, but I predict that if you save the base, the Illusive Man would use it to turn himself into a Reaper, or  do something to that extent involving Reaper technology and become a problem fir you in ME3 

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Mindless_Prey wrote...

And call me crazy, but I predict that if you save the base, the Illusive Man would use it to turn himself into a Reaper, or  do something to that extent involving Reaper technology and become a problem fir you in ME3 

So, first of all, TIM could not turn himself into a reaper if he wanted to. He would need billions of humans even if he figured out how to make a reaper, and Cerberus simply does not have anywhere near the manpower to pull of an operation like that.

Second, why would TIM get in your way?

[Barquiel]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...


He would need billions of humans even if he figured out how to make a reaper, and Cerberus simply does not have anywhere near the manpower to pull of an operation like that.

The collectors had one ship, you don't need much manpower to harvest colonies

[mosor]

Barquiel wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...


He would need billions of humans even if he figured out how to make a reaper, and Cerberus simply does not have anywhere near the manpower to pull of an operation like that.

The collectors had one ship, you don't need much manpower to harvest colonies

Collector ship is bigger than anything cerberus has. Collectors also had seeker swarms that neutralized everyone. Collectors probably have a ton of more manpower than Cerberus.

Modifié par mosor, 19 juillet 2010 - 08:14 .

[Barquiel]

mosor wrote...

Collector ship is bigger than anything cerberus has

Maybe, maybe not

The collector ship is a cruiser, I think. TIM doesn't need the Destiny Ascension to raid some colonies (and I doubt it's impossible to "breed" seeker swarms...if you give the base to cerberus).

[mosor]

Barquiel wrote...

mosor wrote...

Collector ship is bigger than anything cerberus has

Maybe, maybe not

The collector ship is a cruiser, I think. TIM doesn't need the Destiny Ascension to raid some colonies (and I doubt it's impossible to "breed" seeker swarms...if you give the base to cerberus).

I think Joker mentions it's a cruiser in the opening sequence, but it's pretty much impossible to fill a cruiser with milliions of pods. Don't even think a dreadnought would be able to hold that many. Don't think Joker would comment on how massive it was during the collecor ship mission if it was the size of a mere cruiser.

As for breeding seeker swarms. Might be possible. Still the manpower of collecting all those bodies is beyond cerberus. They may have a few hundred field operatives tops. 

The last reason is why would cerberus even bother building a reaper? The cost, the logistics, and the lives required could better be used to build a large fleet. That's a better bargain than 1 reaper you may not be able to control.

[lovgreno]

Perhaps TIMmy is dreaming about breeding specialy designed anti-reaper swarms? Not a bad idea in the space opera style this game is written I suppose. Still the Deus EX Machina sollutions Cerberus has tried before has not been that convincing.

But it would be interesting if we got one anti-reaper weapon from the base and a different anti-reaper weapon from somewhere else (alien allies for example) if you blow up the base.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

The Protheans could indoctrinate, could they? The Protheans created husks, did they? The Protheans have engineered a starship which predates the founding of their empire, have they?

Does anyone even know when the Prothean Empire was founded?

Here it is again, dummies: it is not enough to prove that Sovereign was not a Prothean or Geth ship. You need to PROVE, that is you need to PROVE BEYOND A DOUBT that there is a massive fleet of these things waiting in dark space to flood through the Citadel because the Citadel is a mass relay. The Collector base probably won't allow you to do that. The derelict Reapre won't either. After all, the Council was alreadyd given the opportunity to study a dead Reaper.

DUMMIES DUMMIES DUMMIES DUMMIES

relax Shand, it's a forum post for a space game.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

smudboy wrote...

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

chucktheduck wrote...

As has been said in the last 60-something pages in the forum: The Illusive Man is untrustworthy, so it seems like a bad Idea to give the tech. Plus, I bet there is some kind of fail-safe for the base... like indoctrination. Your crew was there for, what, a few days tops? I also wanted to see what humans would become after Shepard brings down the reapers in a paragon, non-evil way.

As been said multiple tiems before, the Reapers are going to kill us all, so it seems like a bad idea to blow up the base.  I bet there is some kind of way to blow up the base later if we want to, like with bombs, in case something like indoctrination starts happening.  I also wanted to help stop the Reapers in any way possible, because being a Paragon or Renegade in this kind of choice making is absolutely irrelevant and has nothing to do with morals or ethics.

It's a tactical choice Smud: What are the gains? (given various factors and their likelihoods playing out), versus: what are the losses? (again given certain factors, circumstances and scenarios playing out).

TIM and Cerberus are a rogue and unproven quantity. Giving him the base assures nothing because the trust factor with him plays very heavily in the equation.

The main thing is this: when the crisis point arrives, you don't want TIM playing politics with the other races, over tech, to further his end game... that's a huge liability, huge risk, huge red flag. TIM's a playa and that's not what we need.

Tactical choice?  Destroying enemy plans, an enemy making device, is a tactic?  Should I quite Sun Tzu here?

All these social issues of trust or implied politics are moot; the alternative is unthinkable.  Use every break and chance you get to stop them, since ME2 did nothing to help anything toward that.  And if TIM even bothers with the other races or the Council, and they still don't buy that the Reapers are coming after showing them a base full of new technology?  What has the Council done for Shepard aside from Spectre status and giving him leads on Saren?  TIM and Cerberus have been the only factors involved in anything in ME2.  Trust over TIM is not the issue here, and politics and whatever liabilities you're talking about are irrelevant to the enemy you're facing.

Of course politics is an issue... particularly if you're talking TIM. Crazy nutjob will cause a problem cos be wants to be King.

[smudboy]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...

Of course politics is an issue... particularly if you're talking TIM. Crazy nutjob will cause a problem cos be wants to be King.

I don't know exactly what our crazy nutjob wants, aside from "Promote Humanity" and all that.

I do know what our Big Bad wants.

Choice 1. Crazy Nutjob wants to promote humanity in possibly unethical/despotic ways.  He's going to use politics.
Choice 2. Everything dies ever.  Again.

Politics is not an issue.  Your point is still moot.

[Costin_Razvan]

smudboy: I wouldn't bother with these people anymore. Let them remain in their Wonderland.

[wulf3n]

smudboy wrote...
I don't know exactly what our crazy nutjob wants, aside from "Promote Humanity" and all that.

I do know what our Big Bad wants.

Choice 1. Crazy Nutjob wants to promote humanity in possibly unethical/despotic ways.  He's going to use politics.
Choice 2. Everything dies ever.  Again.

Politics is not an issue.  Your point is still moot.

Exactly we don't know what TIM wants. That's what makes him dangerous.

Big Bad wants to make all humanity Unified and Eternal! doesn't sound so bad to me. Humanities all set, it's the other species that have to worry 

I think the fact TIM is ruthless when going after what he wants makes people a bit nervous about handing over the base, considering we have no idea how much power it will give him.

[UpDownLeftRight]

Shandepared wrote...
The politics won't matter if the Reapers
win.

The politics won't matter in the long run either. We will all die in the end anyway.

smudboy wrote...
I don't know exactly what our crazy nutjob wants, aside from "Promote Humanity" and all that.

I do know what our Big Bad wants.

Choice 1. Crazy Nutjob wants to promote humanity in possibly unethical/despotic ways.  He's going to use politics.
Choice 2. Everything dies ever.  Again.

Politics is not an issue.  Your point is still moot.

Long term result of both choices: Everything dies in the end. Whether it will happen now or in 10.000 years is not important. The end result is the same.

Keeping the base because of a will to survive is an emotional reason.
Destryoing the collector base is based on an emotional reason.


You want to keep the base? Good for you.
You want to destroy the base? Good for you.

Both of these arguments are based on emotional reasons.